They could make it so that overweight people obtain mandatory sumo wrestling service instead.
I'd argue South Korea out of all countries has a definite need for it though.
I'm sure it is living on an island, but when you share a border with a nuclear power known for having a crazy dictator that likes to threaten total annihilation and randomly shoots at you in border skirmishes and artillery tag I think it's pretty justifiable.
No it isn't. The actual border is already kept by troops (and I would wager they aren't going to entrust the watch of a highly sensitive region to a bunch of young shitters who don't want to be there), and the nature of the conflict has evolved in a manner which does not call for a ton of ground troops the likes of which compulsory service can bring.
South Korea is big and prosperous enough as a country to afford solely relying on a professional army. The concept of forcing people who likely couldn't give less of a fuck about being soldiers into being trained as such is stupidly outdated if only on virtue of the modern evolution of conflict.
Attempts to dodge conscription are not uncommon, with efforts including deliberately dislocating arms or shoulders.
eeh ... then rather the obesity diet.
The nature of the conflict has lead to what amounts to a stalemate for over half a century, but just because it has been a stalemate for as long as it has doesn't mean it can't erupt ever again. In the event that the North were to invade even with their current troop numbers of around 630,000 active and 3,000,000 in reserve they would be facing near double that amount in man power alone, with them ultimately relying on the US and it's other allies to counter the threat. If they were in a situation such as your country this would be a completely different story, but with a neighboring country that teeters between being mad jack and outright crazy there is still a significant military threat to their country.
If it erupts the last thing they'll need is a bunch of barely trained dudes with no intention to show up for military service. If their society has taken a turn where the youth are more willing to fatten up than to join the military then surely forcing them to fall in line is not going to accomplish much, unless all you want is a bunch of meatshields at which point what the fuck are you doing with your military.
In most countries? Absolutely.
In a country like South Korea, where there's a very real threat of an insane man on a power trip a few miles to the north driving an entire army of brainwashed soldiers en-mass into your country over a political slight? Not as much.
I don't know if I'd be entirely certain of that. Would South Korea be able to attract enough recruits to maintain a volunteer army of similar ability to what it has now? Would the inevitable loss in manpower be offset by the increased motivation and efficiency of volunteers replacing conscripts?
I'm skeptical. Right now, their standing military is comparable to our own in manpower terms, a little over 600k. In addition, they have a reserve force of about 3 million. Assuming their force shrinks to roughly match our force-to-population ratio, would they be able to meet their defense needs with a force of say 90k active and 500k reserve? Technology counts for a lot, but I dunno if you could stretch it quite that far, even with the capability gap between north and south.
Compulsory service is such an utterly fucking disgusting violation of people's personal autonomy that I legitimately do not think it can ever be justified, even if a country is going to fall without it.
Are you saying that if you had to pick between being made to do bullshit for two years or so and living under foreign occupation, you'd take foreign occupation?
I'm saying that everyone should have the right to decide for themselves.
I get it. Conscription sucks. Peacetime military life is often bullshit, and dying in combat is about as bad as it gets. However, giving everyone a choice in the matter sometimes just isn't practical. I agree completely for countries like our own, which have a pair of massive moats on either side, an unmatched economy and no credible existential threats that don't involve mutual annihilation for both us and the attacker.
If we're talking countries where the choice is absolutely between conscription and occupation? Disagree. At that point, you'd just be shifting the choice from your government to the foreign government.
Do you think a country should be allowed to start practicing slavery if it's economy is about to collapse? Because it might as well be the same argument.
If the situation is really that dire, people can sign up for themselves. If they still don't want to even if it means occupation, then I guess your country isn't worth it.
the point of compulsory military service is so that if you do need to go to war or defend from outside attack you have a population of military-trained citizens at your disposal, both those currently serving and those who have completed their service.
Compulsory military service is just inhumane. Just pay your soldiers well enough that they want to stay, don't demand military service from children because they had the audacity to be born within your borders.
I wouldn't compare economic collapse to military defeat and occupation. Most nations are capable of recovering from economic collapse barring serious mismanagement. There's never a guarantee with military defeat. Look at Poland, they lost their independence for centuries, and have only recently recovered it. Look at the populations that lived under German occupation during both the first and second world wars. Look at the Armenians.
if the government needs troops bad enough and your ticket comes up, you're going to be fighting, whether it is to escape your country, against your country, or against the justice system. if the war is unpopular enough with the populace and the politicians still aren't listening and are still pressing people into service, then the people should probably do something about that.
Dunno if I really have an answer to that, other than that you're always going to have a segment of the population that won't volunteer for anything, no matter what. Pushing them may or may not make a difference if the situation is bad enough.
You may have a point there though.
if it is in the case of a war of defense for your nation, and you are able but not willing to fight, you are either a traitor or a coward. you either do not want to preserve your way of life and prefer the attacking nation or you are afraid to fight for your way of life and hope others can do it for you.
non-defensive wars are a different story, of course.
Those 'barely trained dudes' would hold up far better than a bunch of civilians with zero knowledge to begin with.
I did conscription, its a waste of time for us because we don't even have enemies, SK on the other hand makes more sense.
I disagree with having conscription but not for SK.
I'm surprised this is such a hard concept for some to grasp. Even someone who was only doing the most basic of basic tasks in the army for 2 years would become a semi-effective guerilla fighter within their own country. An invading force will have a very hard time when any possible "civilian" in some building's window is actually about to start opening fire.
Additionally, thats the fucking stratgey for south korea.
Our US bases there are literally called the World's largest speed bump for threat precise reason. The overall strategy is to accept Seoul is going to be gurilla war hell and train the civilians so when they're called on they can provide for effective defense.
Also don't give me that 'smart warfare' bullshit. Its only ever been tested on god damn backwaters. Even North Korea is better equipped. Real nations would most likely spend their energy defending and fucking with enemy smart tech. Boots on the ground are still a core part of any combat strategy.
The point of mandatory service is that everyone has basic military training in case things do go to shit, they can fight as irregulars or join the military. The irony in "just join up if it happens" is that new recruits will be thrown into combat with virtually no training.
If youre not going to fight youre not going to fight, instilling forced patriotism is not going to make your country fight better. I understand why they do it, but i cant make any sense out of being forced to die (mostly).
Conscription isn't wrong or bad by default. My opinion there should be some mandatory "crisis readiness training" even without conscription. South Korea's mandatory military service though is awfully long and it's not difficult to see why people have problems with it.
Stop comparing conscription to slavery. Unless you live in a third world shithole you can always drop out. Plus military conscription varies between countries.
I'm not unbiased on this subject (military reservist, pro-conscription) but that doesn't make hard facts null. Here in Sweden they just straight up ask you at the end of the physical and medical tests if you want to go through basic training. If you say 'no' you're off the hook because taxpayers don't want to pay for would-be escape artists.
Of all the people here who are against compulsory military service, how many of you have actually done any form of military service?
Because I can tell you that it's not all about dying in a muddy trench. It's about discovering new things about yourself. Learning new skills (aside from shooting guns) that can help you in the everyday life. Most importantly you get friends for life. The connection I have to my military colleagues is on par with my family and I think that's amazing.
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