• Poland is pushing the EU into crisis [Vox]
    22 replies, posted
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P8MQTgdjcLE
Makes you think what's causing these waves of supremacist, separatist sentiments. Were they always present, waiting to manifest themselves? Or are there instigators that are purposefully driving people apart?
Hungary should have been Article 7'd like five years ago, they waited too long to do something
Now they'll just cover each others back; unanimosity works only when one country is the issue - here, we have a perfect example of politically-similiar parties allying with each other, to save themselves: what can EU really do here?
For me, having borders with Poland feels much worse than having borders with Russia.
Russia has definitely been part of it. In general a lot of the post-eastern-bloc countries have gone very far right in direct backlash against the Soviet days. I know from my family's experiences that in Croatia Neo-Nazis (or technically Neo-Ustase) were quite popular for their role in the homeland war. From what I've read and seen that seems to be somewhat similar in Hungary, so I'd expect similar sentiments to exist throughout that region. As of late certain people and groups have taken an interest to fanning the flames as they personally stand to benefit from the collapse of the EU, Putin ranks very high on that list as not only does he stand to gain the most but we've seen he's willing to throw substantial amounts of money and assassins into the ring, but he's not the only one doing it.
Why is our country always in the worst fucking geographical position whenever shit is going down wtf
I'm sure Putin's involved somewhere, but I remember reading that anti-Russian sentiment is extremely strong amongst the Polish population, so I doubt they'll fall for a lot of his bullshit.
Fascism and other far right ideologies are a disease that get legitimacy by association with more sane conservative economic views and beliefs. Humans are not always rational, especially not in a group, and are extremely vulnerable to manipulation by populist despots with a silver tongue and a knack for exploiting their people's fears, insecurities, doubts, and anxieties. Unfortunately, a lot of these fears and anxieties haven't changed at all in our collective history, but have rather just changed clothes a few times to mask their legacy. Far-Right leaders are still preying on democratic institutions, tribalistic and racist in-group tendencies, fears of "the other", and continues to suppress opposition and criticism at any opportunity. The fascist playbook is as old as modern civilization. Really, I think humans may very well be doomed to fall to the keen exploitation of dangerous ideologies time and time again until they're forced to be reminded of our history with them.
Uhh... but why? I understand that our current gov is a bunch conservative retards(and it's tragic that people actually voted for them), but i just don't see how that makes us worse than Russia, or why should anyone be worried or feel bad about sharing a border with us. We're not gonna roll in with tanks and masked green men with no markings on their uniforms and take away a part of your country, or poison your citizens, or really do anything antagonistic for that matter. In fact, the general polish populace considers Lithuania to be good friends and allies, much like they do Hungary.
Considering that the troubles began very shortly after the death of Polish President(and many other Polish officials) in the 2010 airplane crash; and the current right wing Polish party used it to gain power, I wouldn't doubt that Russia had a hand in it. The plane crashed in Smolensk, Russia, due to fog and poor training allegedly; but it seems like way too nice a coincidence that basically the entire Polish cabinet was killed, and the current far right party came to power as a result of it basically. Considering that many other far-right leaders have been linked to Russia(Le Pen, Trump, Guiseppe Conte, etc), I wouldn't doubt that they too, are linked directly to Putin.
Not even a conspiracy at this point. Putin has his fingers in every major country seeing a rise in right wing extremism, we know this
We had political tensions with Poland in the past, with this new government in power things can go haywire.
They were always nuts, but only after that crash did they change - for worse, obviously; now, i'm not the one that would jump to a conclusion that this was some staged and pre-planned shit, after all the government people that died in this crash were well, from PiS for most part, including president - would they really go to self-sabotage themselves? Other than that, I agree with you - they keep making monthly anniversaries of this crash, and at this point, this serves as nothing more than a political tool to rally up people, and possibly to move peoples attention from other issues that current government brought.
Killing the main members of a party is a good way to have Pro-Russian members take control of it. I'm not usually one for conspiracies at all, but it just seems too convenient. Such a shame to see such a great country, and people, succumb to far-right hysteria.
I was researching the radical groups in poland and it's staggering how much legitimacy and presence one of them gained. The ONR (national radical camp) went from ~30 people marching to celebrate an anti-jew riot to 60000 people at the latest independence day march. That's neo nazis getting regular people to march with them. Looking through youtube footage over the years you could see them gaining more power even to the point where they were doing anti riot police training (practicing march formations with sirens and smoke grenades).
Always seemed bizarre to me that neo nazis can exist in eastern european countries like Poland when the Nazis wanted to kill them all.
It's especially weird when Poland still wants war reparations from Germany.
I feel like punshing the people who're angry because they believe they're being pushed around by a non representitive foreign authority by having that very authority strip them of what little "voting" (IE MEP's vetoing legislation posited by the council) rights they have isn't going to do anything but make shit worse. Maybe uh, solve the problem of what's making them angry than kick them and ask why they're so angry. Extremism is a reaction, as unreasonable as it may be. I feel like Article 7 is as blind a move as could possibly be made.
Youre thinking about it from the perspective of common polish people, but a big chunk of them is already pro-eu and anti-government. The rise of facism is primarily among the rular population and in the east, and its mostly because those people feel like the previous polish governements abandoned them and left them to starve. Eu is already pumping plenty of money there (more then any eu country as a matter of fact), and it just doesnt work because these people need more then just renovated buildings and sports hals for the youth. Besides, what thr polish population at large thinks is becoming less and less relevant by the day, since after taking apart the law system and contitution they can just rewrite the election laws to make sure they never loose again. The only way to make polish government hurt is to put them on the collision course with the EU itself, and for EU to give some sort of demonstration of power. 70% of poles support eu and want to be there, and polish government knows from maidan what happens when a goverment is a threat for eu integration when the population supports it. Open conflict is the only solution to make polish government scale back its bullshit.
They don't have to fall for his bullshit, they're falling for the bullshit from (possibly Russia-backed) populist parties giving them lip service and rallying them against another group of people be that migrants, muslims or liberals. All this fervor led to #national_pride becoming cool again. Yeah, I sure love our history, like that part where we killed a shitload of people out of sheer bloodlust, contempt and greed for their belongings to fuel our war machine because our government was neck deep in debt and übermensch ideology.
The graph about EU funding is wrong, should be thousands of millions. Either way, the EU is definitely in a bit of a pickle with this. It's hard because not allowing the eastern european countries into the EU might've pushed them away back then, but on the other hand, taking them in has definitely opened the door on compromises on the EU's core values (doesn't apply to all those countries, obviously). Also I dislike the use of music in this video, soundtracks are meant for movies, not what should be news aiming to be objective.
This tbh. Our government is utterly retarded, makes poland look really bad and ruins our economy with socialist programmes to but themselves voters, but they're harmless to other countries. The only one that gets hurt is Poland itself.
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