Developer creates proof of concept for running Win32 apps on Xbox One
25 replies, posted
http://piunikaweb.com/2018/09/17/xboxone-win32-code-uwp-sandbox/
Now the real fun can begin.
How about we run Xbox One on full Windows now.
Good, now create a universal logical recompiler that is capable of running any platform on any other platform as long as it has the resources to handle it. It's all ones and zeros anyway, one just needs to know how to reshove it to use different registers and shit.
I'm pretty sure that's how High level emulators function anyway. They don't give as shit what happens under the hood as long as the end result is identical.
Different machines have different versions of assembly and/or different architectures, which is the root of the issue of running software from one type of machine on a different type of machine.
There has to be a way to make them friends.
The Xbox one is just x86 anyway, there's nothing to emulate. All you really need to do is set up a way so that the windows API stuff works. Kinda like Wine, I guess. I'm honestly surprised it took this long.
Didn't hacking the ps3 take like 12 years or something?
The PS3 has such a bizarre, unconventional CPU set up. It took official, licensed developers a couple years to get a hang of it. Not really the same thing.
Didn't Saturn have a massively avant garde as fuck CPU as well?
the CPU is the easy part -- the GPU and running unsigned code with the hypervisor is a whole other story. the xbox one just runs windows though, so all the APIs are already there. some older stuff is stripped out, but the UWP/universal APIs all just end up calling existing win32 apis.
Not really, unless you want to write a native interpereter for each platform and run interpereted code on it (like Java does).
Oh good, now I can run Doom in there.
u wot
This guy is a true hacker in the purest sense of the word, his persistence in figuring the system out is ultra impressive
It be crimbo six a hertz
The difficulty in running software on current-gen consoles isn't emulation, x86-64 has that taken care of. It's the proprietary hardware that would pose an issue.
Both the PS4 and Xbone use beefed-up AMD GCN APUs that superficially resemble desktop components but in reality there isn't any public documentation on them. We don't have the capability to reverse-engineer the drivers for those parts, at least not easily, and software can't do anything without drivers to actually interface with hardware.
Theoretically you could run a Windows VM inside the Xbox OS, but getting that VM to work with the Xbox's hardware is seriously no small task. The open source community has been working on free drivers for desktop GPUs for years and years and they still kind of suck, and those parts have much more documentation and are much more easily torn apart.
Instruction sets (lists of most basic CPU commands that are directly executed by hardware) can range in size from around ten instructions to hundreds. You need to consolidate all of those across all architectures to make something universally compatible.
It'll probably only be manageable when the first strong AI comes along.
Not really accurate, there was never major interest in hacking the ps3 as you could already run Linux on it, it was Sony removing otheros that really kick-started it all.
What classifies ad full windows?
It's already running windows 10, but, to bastardly put it, with another shell.
The only reason this is limited to console apps, is you're technically running them over the telnet connection you've made. If you get a port open, you could make a headless client with a remote UI.
Getting a window to actually show up will require the xbox to actually have support for it (like if they had winforms
it is literally Windows 10 without explorer.exe and some APIs that aren’t UWP
The PS3 was so complex that it is widely considered that the first game to properly and effectively utilize most of its processing power was The Last Of Us, a game that wasn't released until a whopping seven years after the console was released.
I don't know where you get this, but it's bullshit. All the exclusives from Uncharted 2 and onwards (GoW3, Ascension, UC3, TLOU) all pegged it and utilized it fully. What really happened was that both artists and programmers got better at both optimizing AND knowing where to make cuts or pare back visuals in a way that wasn't really noticed AND left more budget for other tasks. the BIG gamechanger was the invention and wide implementation of MLAA and FXAA. As soon as that happened, most exclusives started dropping MSAA entirely in their favor, which again freed up a lot of budget. Every documentary they made in those years lay out how their work-flow evolved from game to game.
It's underselling their talent HARD to make the straight-faced claim that the first game to properly utilize the system was TLOU. Their engineers would probably give you the same schpiel i just did. at least from GoW3 and onwards, it was more down to creative thinking and very slight optimizations than sweeping code optimizations on a larger scale.
Now if you want to discuss 3rd party devs, you could easily make the case that they never really got a handle on the machine. Rockstart got close with GTA5 and Konami with MGS5 PP, but both those projects slightly overshot their scope vs available resources which resulted in compromised performance at times. That said, GTA5 was closer to a locked 30 on PS3 than GTA4 was.
to that point I think MGS4 was downgraded between TGS08 and release.
Where do I get it? I dunno, try the fucking developers themselves:
https://www.eurogamer.net/articles/digitalfoundry-the-last-of-us-tech-analysis
The Untapped Potential of the PS3’s CELL Processor And How Naugh..
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Development_of_The_Last_of_Us
so, uh, yeah, you're not exactly correct either there chief
I feel like you read my first line and just got angry here...
No problem considering optimization being part of using hardware efficiently, I guess anyone would agree with that. But it feels like you are expecting the same incredible optimization from very few games to happen in every PS3 release.
PS3 limits were already reached years ago, anything you see now that goes beyond the majority of releases quality is purely super dedication of the devs, which is something that takes a lot of time and experience.
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