(NSFL) Man shot and killed by father-son duo in Abilene Texas
773 replies, posted
Not sure if this is considered gore, nothing is really seen in any detail.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SF2ROKpLYiY&has_verified=1
"I will kill you"
"I will you too faggot"
The dead guy really did everything wrong in this situation.
As tempers flare, Box steps in between her husband and John Miller.
Howard’s brother has handed him a baseball bat by this time, but he never swung it, his wife said.
So now he has a deadly weapon, he's screaming he's going to kill them both.
It's not clear if the first barrage from the pistol winged him or missed completely, but he goes down in the second barrage AFTER he throws the fucking baseball bat at the fatman.
Jesus christ just call the fucking cops.
I feel like the wife should've convinced her husband to lay off, he seemed like he was just blowing a gasket and didn't know when to quit. And we don't really know the context of what happened leading up to this just yet, but now the kids don't have a father because of this bullshit.
This looks like a fucking trailer park boys scene. What a bunch of stereotypes.
Nobody here is in the right; the fat dudes shouldn't have been using firearms on public property, in this case, an alleyway, though the father is definitely concerned for his kids if an accident were to happen with those two using the firearms improperly. That said, if the man was so concerned about his kids, he would've done the responsible thing for their sake and called the police instead of confronting them and putting himself and his wife in a dangerous situation. He also escalated the situation, grabbing a lethal weapon, threatening their life, and attacking them with the bat. In Texas, they father-son are in the right, legally, so long as this is going down on their property, or public property, and so long as he showed intent with the bat before the first shot was fired, but its impossible to tell; since he was literally saying he'd kill them, and they never pointed the gun at him until the camera pans away and he seems to go in with the bat, this is clear-cut self defense and legally defensible in Texas, even if the two carrying firearms in an alley are potentially negligent. In Texas, we have open carry, and if these guns weren't being fired, or were being fired in a part of town where they can be fired legally, the only one in the wrong is the father who, again, even if legitimately concerned about accidental harm coming to his kids, tackled the situation in the worst way possible.
The two, as awful as their demeanor is, also at least had trigger discipline.
Looks like he took the shotgun to the face.
They were arrested.
https://www.star-telegram.com/news/local/community/fort-worth/article218728710.html
The two were released after posting $25,000 bail.
Guns were a mistake, lol.
Arrested, but they'll likely have a good defense and avoid prosecution; the video does more harm to the father than it does to them, so even if the story in the article is swayed in favor of the victim, the video clearly shows them in the legal wrong, which is all they need to get lessened charges. Even if the wife claims the two were being aggressive, pulling a gun in public isn't necessarily illegal if you have the right paperwork and aren't pointing a gun at anyone. Even if they pulled the guns first without a good cause, that part isn't shown on video; what is shown on video is an extremely aggressive father who is threatening to kill to men who (again, legally in Texas) are openly carrying firearms on public property.
Fucking retards.
Nobody deserves to die even if he had a fucking bat and went off his nut, American gun culture is absurd, call a fucking cop, vigilante self defense by killing him is a crazy escalation.
Then again in america the cop would probably shoot him too lol
I do feel bad for the wife, and especially the kids, but really, the father is totally in the wrong here by far legally. The fatmen duo are certainly not the best role models for good gun ownership, but nothing they did breaks any Texas laws I am aware of based on what we can see and based on the wife's (likely inaccurate) story. I'm sure she diminished the aggressiveness her husband was displaying when questioned, not like she's going to say "well yeah, he was being a crazy guy who threatened their lives and attacked them." She should've gotten him to back off and called the police. She's as much to blame for his death as he is.
Do not blame the tools for their owner's malpractice.
To be completely fair the guy was 37 and came at a 67 year old with a bat. He could easily have killed him with that bat, and I won't be surprised if the Millers are let off on those grounds, since this situation is basically specifically outlined in the law here as justifiable.
Also to be completely fair these inbred hicks are threatening to murder each other over garbage and this entire situation is ridiculous and avoidable.
I'm sorry but if somebody threatens to literally kill you and is carrying a bat, and you have a legally owned firearm that you carry explicitly for situations where you are in harms way and police would not be able to get there in time to save you, you have every ethical and legal obligation to defend yourself. If the old man pulled the gun after the father came up to him as he was removing the mattress and was being aggressive, the old man was likely pulling the gun for self defense because of a genuine concern that the father would attack him. Only after that did the son come to protect his family member.
Did the old man bring a gun spoiling for a fight, or did the father have a history of being aggressive and he wanted to be safe while he simply pulled a mattress from a dumpster? We can't know for certain, but on video, the father is clearly the more violent of the two. Maybe we'd be hearing a story about a drug addled father beating an old man with a baseball bat to death over a mattress instead.
Ah, sorry, I just notice that guns are extremely deadly and much more effective and imparting damage at range than most other weapons. I just figure that might make guns the determining factor in just HOW bad this situation got. Guns should not have been involved, they should have all walked away from each other, but the gunners just wanted to wait to kill him.
Yes but the father had a bunch of other people to help, and its a "what about if he died" well thats super unlikely to die from that opposed to being executed by shotgun to the head.
Guns here only escalated the situation and made it worse than if a cop got called to sort it out.
100% agree the wife fucked up by posting this video. If she wanted to take this to court she should have kept it to herself.
Or yknow, call cops
Also there is no legal obligation to defend yourself by killing people lmao
This situation doesn't apply. All parties were within a few feet of eachother. A kitchen knife or, hell, a baseball bat, are gonna be just as deadly as a gun at that sort of range, especially against an old man from a guy in a literal bloodrage. Texas law very clearly allows individuals to not only openly carry firearms in public, but also allows them to be pulled in cases where somebody considers the situation potentially harmful to them, such as a man threatening to kill them.
It's not unlikely. One blow to the head from a bat can be fatal to even a healthy person, let alone some meathead tool swinging at a nearly-70 year old who obviously isn't in peak physical condition.
This situation was avoidable and ridiculous but these two gave him plenty of warnings, it's not like they're out wantonly shooting people. He attacked a 67 year old with a bat.
Good god this is almost a perfect vignette of a difficult-to-understand part of the American psyche for me. Why didn't they walk away? Why didn't they call and wait for the cops? Why was everyone so nonchalant about two guys with guns in a shouting match? Why did the guy threaten to kill the two people with guns??? Why were they engaged in this moronic brinkmanship over a mattress in the first place????
I know this is an extreme case but it is really hard to understand from an outside perspective.
Dude he had a baseball bat after the conversation got heated and the two had their weapons out and brandished the entire time. If either party is the one in the wrong its the two nimrods openly carrying their guns.
I don't give a fuck about 'threatening intent' when the power difference is massive. This isn't some guy charging them with a bat, there are two guys with far more lethal options than a baseball bat. If this were a situation where the gun was holstered and the man was running at them I would give away but they were in no danger because they had their weapons in hand and prepared to fire.
Yes, and the father could have called the cops on the old man taking a mattress out of the dumpster instead of going down and threatening them with a bat. The violent father came before the guns were drawn, not the other way around. If "pappa bear daddy" was being civil about it, old man would not have felt threatened and he would not have pulled his gun to protect himself.
They had guns and the power balance was quite clearly in their favor. He still chose to attack the older Miller with a bat. At that point, should they have just let him go ham on the guy with a bat?
I don't know how many ways I can say this entire situation is fucking moronic but the second he decided to escalate to actual violence he chose the outcome.
Yeah the problem is that you somehow think that because he freaked out and escalated to violence that means that the other people should escalate to deadly violence.
In America people, many conservatives, put themselves over anyone else. If you come to take my stuff or hurt them, they will kill you and not feel any regret.
This man was LITERALLY telling them to aim their guns at him.
This isn't "papa bear" mode like a few news articles would insinuate this is a clear cut case of "suicide by redneck". Maybe the fat hicks should've pulled out their tazers instead.
BTW I don't get how it isn't assault to come up to a guy open carrying like that, America is sooo fucked up in some places i guess?
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(NSFL) Man shot and killed by father-son duo in Abilene Texas
