Do we take our games for granted? Is it unavoidable? Is it even a bad thing?
47 replies, posted
I was just done buying two new indie games on Steam earlier because I wanted to play something fresh and - while they were downloading - I amused myself a bit by looking through my Steam library. It was initially in detailed list mode but I remembered that the library also had a pretty slick grid mode which I then switched to. At that moment, while I was scrolling down my collection of games, I had a realization. There was something about each game having its own dedicated physical space on my screen (as opposed to just showing up as a thin line on a list) that made me feel very nostalgic and melancholic.
Just as an experiment before I go further, if you currently have access to Steam slowly go over your library in grid mode. How does it make you feel?
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/224422/f09fdb3a-2fe4-4ad2-8c92-8533f422b1a7/ache.webm
It made me realize that I was taking all of these games for granted. How many games I only played for an hour or even just a few minutes. How many games I play only halfway through but lost the save. How many games I got through a Humble Bundle and actually never have the intention of touching. How many games I wish I'd play but can't bring myself to because I feel I could spend that time on a more "fun" game. It made my heart ache a little bit because I know kid me would probably have an aneurysm seeing the sheer number of games I have access to. On the other hand adult me doesn't give it a second thought.
A few months ago I felt like the were a few games that I've wanted to play but always put off for some reason or another. One of them was Kentucky Route Zero. At the time, I wanted a scoop of indie adventure game weirdness as a change of pace from my usual consumption of competitive online games. I think in reality I was perhaps hoping to again experience a bit of the wonder of playing something you don't know anything about, discovering its unfamiliar sights and the thrill that comes with absolutely having no clue regarding what comes next. In some sense, Kentucky Route Zero made me feel a bit like a kid again in more ways than one, such as not caring at all about playing "optimally" or finding certain parts of a game a bit boring but sticking with it because you're just completely sucked into that world. It's a very similar feel to when I played Undertale when in came out.
I don't think we lose our ability to experience wonder as we grow older but how we perceive games does change. Everything changes as you grow up. In some sense, it's not inherently bad. As a kid, I don't think I would quite be able to experience games like Undertale and Kentucky Route Zero on a deep emotional level like adult me did. There's this great scene in Kentucky Route Zero that was so unexpected, so beautiful and tied in so well with all the other themes in the game that it genuinely made me cry. I don't think kid me would have liked it as much.
(Spoilers for Kentucky Route Zero in the video below. Don't watch unless you really have no intention of playing it.)
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/224422/b0d85579-6034-4c06-9b6d-2a935ab6aaaf/ache2.webm
If I had a point I wanted to make, I guess it would be to just give that strange game you never played a chance. Dedicate a week once in a while to those games and I think you'll be able to experience a lil bit of that childlike wonder again. Kids might feel that effortlessly but with a bit of effort I think we can all capture a bit of that magic too.
What are your thoughts?
I most certainly absolutely do. Partly it is games being much more available and cheaper, part is making my own money which makes buying and hoarding games trivial and part of it is the endless feeling of 'oh this is so nice I'll definitely play it at some point' .
Me and my brother had been recently chatting, for most of our childhood we had few games we just kept coming back and back and back. I remember spending countless hours playing the Midtown Madness demo. To this day I have never ever played the full game. I played the shit out of Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3... demo which only had 1 area. My dad somehow got me a pirated copy of Morrowind after someone at work suggested it was very good. This was after I saw some hack and slash game on a TV Gaming show and said oh wow that looks cool. Hack'n'Slash game... Morrowind... I knew some English then but damn nowhere near enough to be any good at Morrowind. Didn't even have regular internet to look shit up. I must have woken up in that ship at least a 100 times without ever getting on the Silt Strider. The opening theme still sends unbelievable shivers down my spine.
Not gonna be all rosy nostalgia tinted and say oh I enjoyed games much more back then, I certainly have had amazing gaming experiences since then but the combination of childhood wonder, not being constantly bombarded by the new best thing and actually having time/patience/nothing else to do to play the shit out of games made it such a special time.
humble bundle always had the remarkable ability of making me buy packs of games that I never end up playing afterwards. it's almost like the Netflix of gaming where there are lots of options available yet there is never anything to watch immediately.
Bundles have kind of ruined my enjoyment of games personally. When I choose to buy a specific game, it kind of compels me to find reasons to like it rather than reasons to hate it so I don't feel like I wasted the money I put down on it. For example I bought Mirror's Edge Catalyst on launch at $60 or whatever the price was, played it start to finish and enjoyed every second of it. It was only after I was done that I thought "wow, this game actually wasn't any better than the original Mirror's Edge", but by that time, I already enjoyed the entire game.
Ever since I've been getting games in bundles or for extremely cheap I've been thinking less "I should try to enjoy this game" and more "I'll either like it or hate it" because I haven't lost much by not liking it. It's caused me to become way more critical about games. Whether that's a good or bad thing is up for debate, but one thing's for sure and it's that I haven't been enjoying many games recently.
I realized I was buying a lot of bundles without really playing the games. Nowadays I have kinda dialed back and don't buy games often and I'm more willing to buy games at their full price, especially if I'm actually gonna play it.
Now that you got me thinking about it, I realise my relationship with video games has changed a lot over the course of my life.
I've been playing games for as long as I can remember, I've got pictures of 2 years old me playing that moon landing black and white game on some old ass computer in the late 90s. I remember cartoon kids games like Put-put or Freddie Fish.
At the time, my parents only allowed one 30 minutes gaming session per day, same with TV, so that I grew up with diversified sources of entertainment. A pretty wise measure, in retrospect. They also forbade mature games they deemed too violent for my age.
In a way, I think those limitations made me appreciate said bite-sized sessions more. I've only played a handful of games before my teenage years, even if cost wasn't an issue since we pirated most of them before the Steam era, but I've thoroughly enjoyed all of them. Not having experience with a wide diversity of games meant that I was less likely to notice their flaws, and my kid imagination filled the gaps which made those games' world seem deeper and bigger than they actually were, even if it was balls-to-the-wall crazy (I recall writing a Rayman/Winnie the Pooh crossover fanfic haha).
That kind of innocence faded over time, of course, and as my parents relaxed gaming-related limitations, I felt compelled to play more and more games for longer and longer lengths of time. It allowed me to play more time-consuming, immersive games like the X series, XCOM or Deus Ex, but on the other hand it made me neglect other forms of perhaps more creative entertainment, like Lego or drawing.
At some point, I think it became excessive. During my first few student years, I believe I missed out on a lot of opportunities for personal growth because I couldn't get motivated enough to get out of my comfort zone. I also neglected academic work as a result (though other factors were at play as well), and while that didn't have a significant effect on my diploma, I kind of regret that I didn't invest more time into learning legitimately interesting stuff.
So I think all of this influences my appreciation of video games nowadays. Now that I've got more adult responsibilities, less free time, and that I prioritize other activities such as going out, reading, dating, cooking, or sports, gaming time has become more scarce again, and thus more precious. But it also means that I've become a lot less indulgent with the games I do play. If a game doesn't provide me with an immersive, interesting world, doesn't help me develop certain skills, lacks depth in its mechanics, doesn't bring a novel, challenging stance on real world issues to the table, or doesn't provide a creative outlet, I tend not to bother with it. Any game that forces me to go through thoughtless, boring grind, artificially inflates play time to try and sell me microtransactions, or disrespects my personal time in any way, is automatically disqualified. Basically, if I feel like I wasted time I could have spent doing more enriching activities instead, I stop playing the game. This also applies to technical issues. Recently, I wanted to try out Spec Ops: The Line, but it crashes on launch and I simply gave up after unsuccessfully looking for a fix for half an hour.
It does yield perverse effects, like when I go through my steam library and only see a handful of games I barely feel motivated to play out of ~250. Sometimes I boot a game for the first time, but end up quitting after fiddling with it for a few minutes because I don't feel hooked. I've often stopped playthroughs because the game crashed without saving after a tricky part, or just because it gets frustrating at some point. I love The Banner Saga trilogy for multiple reasons, put I've put my playthrough on hold near the end because thewarpedjust feel bullshit to fight against.
I feel there's a balance to be found. I certainly do waste time arguing against anonymous retards over the internet or watching stupid YouTube videos that would be better spent playing a legitimately good game instead. I suppose I should try and push through if I don't feel hooked right off the bat.
A little bit of yes and no.
When you view games as culture, technology and art, the quality of the craft improve and as better understanding and tools become available.
It may be harsh but we ought not to give our attention to every game out there. There are too much, too much barely worth a glance, many more left behind by the constant advancement of standards.
Much like many other medium, we should always expect better and beyond. There's nothing wrong with a little bit of cynicism,, there'll always be something out there that will still exceed and impress.
Nothing wrong with valuing your time over subpar entertainment.
Obviously I'm incapable of changing any minds or perspectives, but my actual first advice would be NOT be weighted down and hooked by BAD games that constantly want your attention (and wallet).
When competition is rampant, everyone will want a piece of your attention. Sense of attachment becomes harder since there are more options out there. Many games will want to "retain" you, don't let them have that control unless you are ready to commit to that community. Otherwise, soon you'll be out exploring to sate your fix. My second advice would be that if you ever have a sudden urge to play a specific game (that you haven't got around to), install and play that game immediately. Even if you don't finish it, you wouldn't even started it otherwise.
Good games make you treasure your memories with them; bad games make you regret spending in them.
I am consistently blown away at how retardedly high quality facepunch posters are.
This really is amazing advice, thank you for it. I think I needed to hear/read it after having so many things be a drain on my time and energy like work and career planning. It is easy to fall into just not playing something because I feel I will never be able to put in enough time.
There's so many games on my stream library I have played, and a alarming amount I have not touched. Games lie in my pile of shame since I don't always think I have the time investment to want to enjoy them. But if it's from a franchise I know I enjoy, it's a lot easier to get into, like Danganronpa and metal gear both have playtimes with an alarming amount of hours.
These days I just like, yup open battlenet and play overwatch. I can stop playing in an hour and not have to sit at a cliffhanger or anything.
But also when I have my commute to the city, I just have a lot of time on my hands. So I'd play anything I can get on the go, the switch helps, but it doesn't help the huge pile of steam games just there on my account
I feel that part of the problem could stem from the fact that not all playable videogames of high quality are necessarily good VIDEOGAMES as strange as that may sound. One of the most crucial parts of a good videogame is replay value which multiplayer games tend to provide plenty of. Another crucial part of a videogame is gamefeel which is an incredibly tricky thing to capture sometimes.
Basically the idea is that even if there is nothing inherently wrong with a high quality videogame it may still have something lacking in its formula that makes it a lot less interesting to play than other games, which is part of the reason why so many Steam games go unplayed, because at the end of the day some gaming experiences are simply blatantly superior to other ones.
Another crucial issue as mentioned before is how respectful the game is to player's time and how CONDENSED the experience is, or roughly speaking how much game juice the game gives you per minute, as well as whether it forces the player to repeat anything.
Part of the reason why the classic arcade formula is kind of brilliant is because it tends to vary between tiny bite sized pieces and making it possible to continue playing the level with extra coins even if you failed, something that a lot of hardcore games have no concept of.
It pains me to see all the games I may never actually play again due to literally having no spare time as an adult.
Hence why it should be acceptable to develop ultra fun micro games that literally take five minutes to play such as cut the rope perhaps. Or micro ultra high replayabiltiy multiplayer games that take only five minutes to play.
I think one of the biggest issues with games since Humble Bundle began is the overabundance of bundles that give you like 5+ games for $5, and extreme sales on games. If one game interests you in the bundle, you might buy it just for that instead of because you want a bunch of new games. I still don't know what else came with the Insurgency bundle I got all those years ago, cause I just wanted Insurgency for like $5. I think it devalues the hard work of the developers and devalues the concept of even buying a game in general. Who knows how many potentially fantastic indie games there are that are still considered hidden gems because people only wanted the headliner title in those bundles? I know a lot of people have bought Postal 2, one of my favorite games ever made, but they've never played it. They only bought it because it frequently goes on sale for a dollar and they're like "oh yea its only a dollar I'll get it now and just play it later"
I think having higher prices (And by higher, I don't mean increasing average price. I mean just not dropping your game to 90% off for a week at a time, and keeping it at its full or mostly full price.) incentivizes buyers to actually research the game they're looking at, and consider if they want to play it. Chances are if they buy it at the full price, they have intent to play it, experience what it is and try to enjoy it. Two favorite games of mine are Undertale and Battle Brothers. Both games I paid the full $10 and $20 respectively they costed at the time. Both of them took a little while to click with me (An hour or 2 in Undertale's case, a week in BB's case), but when they did man they left a fucking impression. Undertale ended up being one of the most emotionally impactful games I've played, and I have 258 hours on Battle Brothers now. If I had gotten those games for $2 or something, I'm 99% sure I would have thought "Eh, it was $2, I didn't lose much" and just stopped playing if it didn't instantly entertain me. Worse yet, if those games ended up in some kind of bundle overshadowed by some other big title that was the primary focus of the bundle, I might not have even played them to begin with.
While I understand that some people do give each game in bundles a fair shot, some games can grab you faster than others, and for many there are genuine financial concerns that stop them from paying full price for many games, I still feel that keeping full cost for single game is necessary so people can actually have the desire to experience and as well as reward the hard work some developers put into their games. Its not hard to find somebody who bought at least a humble bundle or two, played each game for 2 minutes and went "MEH" and went back to playing either something not even in the bundle or the big fancy game advertised at the top of all of the games they got because thats all they actually cared about.
I often find myself loading up a level in l4d2 on my laptop if I know I have only like 10 minutes of time cause I know I'll enjoy it
I do agree that the Humble Bundle format seems to heavily encourage thoughtless purchasing for a ridiculously cheap price only for the game to then end up being a dead weight, it effectively serves as a clickbait to make someone fork a few pennies.
At the same time price may not be as much of an issue as the presentation. Perhaps shoving a bunch of wildly different games in a bundle is not the best idea and that the humble website should instead go through full pages dedicated to single games to make people positive whether they are interested in the game or not, otherwise the whole thing kind of triggers the impulse buying instinct without triggering the informed decision buying instinct.
I've been thinking about exactly this, and now I think I get why Factorio, almost uniquely, sells at 25 bucks and never ever goes on sale. It means that you have to go out of your way to muster the money and get it with the intent of playing it, rather than impulse buy when it's 80% off because a friend once said it was a cool game or whatever. It also works for the developers because they don't have people buying the game without having $25 worth of interest in it and then leaving shit reviews, and it also helps them combat the gray market. Most of all, it makes you actually play the fucking game and treasure it, a bit like you did your precious few games you had as a kid.
And I mean it's a really fuckin good value both in terms of time and quality, much more than if you buy 10 games at 2 bucks none of which you actually install.
I'm so used to seeing sales as a good thing now I genuinely didn't see the benefits of this for the longest time.
Sometimes I'll scroll through my steam library and think "fuck me I've pissed alot of money on games I've never played"
holy shit what is this real? bcz if you take this concept to any developer conference the marketing dudes are going to flip their pants with the whole less-sales thing.
I think Nintendo also does this with their biggest games but I don't think i ever hear them talk about it. It's like a trade secret or something.
Games are too easy and too cheap to obtain these days (indies at least). Just two days ago, I impulse bought a game I thought looked cool but have yet to actually play. The past month or so, I think I've done the same for around 4-5 other games. I have yet to play any of them. I find myself too often staring at my Steam library, feeling completely overwhelmed with all the options. Yet I keep feeding it money to get more games, only to feel even more overwhelmed by all my choices. I have 742 games in my library and I haven't even launched 377 of them. There are 129 games I've played between 0 to 1 hours which I'd consider to well, not be played. I dipped my toes but didn't give it a proper chance. The games I actually spent time playing and enjoyed only sits at a total of 113. Somewhere in that ballpark.
In a way, I feel like this overabundance of games I own have killed a lot of my passion for games. As I wrote, it's easy to get overwhelmed by all the available options to the point where you give up even trying. I no longer spend hours in games to enjoy them, but instead I tend to be more effective even though it affects my enjoyment. There's no point in treasuring the game I'm playing or giving it more chances than one to keep my attention because I have 742 other games I could play instead.
I think Factorio is also a bit of a unique case though. It's a great enough game that I would honestly have been fine paying normal full game prices for it. The only other game I've sunk as much time into in a long time is Terraria, which I also think is actually worth more than it's sold for.
I feel like people saying games are too cheap are bringing forth an absurd argument and it speaks more of their privilege rather than any true devaluation of the worth of the video games put on sale/included in bundles. I don't think a lot of you realize just how beneficial to gaming as a whole the reduction in the cost of purchases has been. Yes, some people really need to make every single cent count because otherwise they won't make rent. Rather, the issue is the lack of impulse control and I do include myself as having that problem. It's up to the devs to set the price they want but if the price is low you can't possibly complain about it because getting the game in the hands of more people is always going to be a net benefit in the end.
I have probably over a hundred games that I've never played at all(Thanks Humble Bundle) and it makes me feel kind of guilty when I look at my games collection, as freakishly large as it's gotten over the years of Steam Sales, Humble Bundle Sales, and etc. Video games have always been a touchstone for me in my life, a hobby I could always go to and get away from a world I didn't find very interesting.
Over the years that's changed somewhat, but I still find it the last holdover of my youth, the last aspect of who I used to be that sticks with me. It connects me to memories I have of being a child, to better times, and they fulfill my desire for story telling and information amazingly well. I read a lot as a kid, and found myself lost in my own head in the world of these stories, once I got into gaming with my
Aunt as a little kid, games became a new place for me to do that in. I often yearn for that child like view of video games again, so I could be a bit less jaded about the shit that I play.
It's a subject I ultimately feel the need to really talk about but I find that isn't as easy on the internet today as it used to be.
I actually have a goal, to beat 50% of my steam library by 2020. I made a spreadsheet to keep track of it all because I don't like how those automatic websites count things like bioshock and bioshock remastered or subnautica and subnautica vr as separate games, when I wouldn't.
Problem for me is that sometimes I need to get into it and that can be hard at times. I remember having a hard time getting into INFRA before suddenly really liking it. Same thing with the original Deus Ex. Then at times I just instantly fall in love with games like PREY (2017) and DOOM (2016).
But at times I just can't get into a game and I won't bother further. And that is how I have a fuckton games where I only played 1 hour or less and never again :-(
I'm the opposite, I'm really choosy about what I buy and I don't get many of the humble bundles, and I try to play all the way through things. I have a lot of games but I also have 100% achievements in 30+ games.
I'm assuming you're referring to other posters in this thread but I'm crossing my fingers you also consider the OP to be of high quality as well. If it wasn't for Facepunch I would have never learned how to take the time to make content like that for any community at all. It also helps that I knew you guys would have your own worthwhile stories to tell, when the idea came to me.
Ofcourse I also meant you @StrawberryClock , plus you have an ultra nostalgic flash related username, what's not to like. I am just sincerely impressed by how so many users are creating these large ultra comprehensive posts while frequently engaging in these next level shit kinds of discussions, it's interesting to be a part of this place.
I really hope Garry doesn't nuke the forum. I've literally never seen such a consistent output of meaningful discussions and content anywhere else on the internet.
You guys are awesome. I'll be at a loss if FP ever goes down for good.
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