Macron calls for 'real' European army at start of war centenary tour
27 replies, posted
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/nov/06/macron-calls-for-real-european-army-at-start-of-war-centenary-tour
Emmanuel Macron has used the first world war armistice centenary commemorations to call for a “real” European army, warning that rising nationalism and populism threaten the fragile peace on the continent.
“We have to protect ourselves with respect to China, Russia and even the United States of America,” Macron said as he visited the sites of the western front battlefields in northern France on Tuesday.
Macron has begun a rare week-long memorial tour of north-east France, calling at villages and small towns that a century ago witnessed the bloodshed of the war and that are now struggling against deindustrialisation and unemployment.
“When I see President Trump announcing that he’s quitting a major disarmament treaty which was formed after the 1980s Euromissile crisis that hit Europe, who is the main victim? Europe and its security,” he said in a radio interview to mark 100 years since the end of hostilities. “Peace in Europe is precarious,” he said.
Honestly? I'd agree with him. While we are grateful for the help US provides as part of the NATO pact, we cannot rely solely on them. And those years of Trump's presidential reign has shown us that, the United States that became less reliable, both due to Trump's policy towards NATO and Russian connections he most likely has.
Europe needs to start relying on themselves. The European united army is not a bad idea, but I wonder how Macron sees it being implemented. Hopefully for the best interests of each European country.
(Worth noting that this move will most likely push european integration forward, which is great.)
Can't really count on the US to reliably be there to protect us any more honestly, not with puppets like Trump getting elected.
My only problem with this is that far right nationalist idiots are on the rise all over Europe and as a result it might become subject to instability.
I think it's a good idea. The EU shouldn't rely on NATO (read: The US) anymore, and western Europe increasingly is a target for Russian political expansion/interference.
I feel we can't trust the US because their politics are too fragile and very sensitive to influences from lobbies, foreign powers, hackers, emotions and populism.
Imo things that would unite the EU are for the better. Maybe then people would be more inclined to participate in democracy to fix their woes with the union rather than invent problems and scream about leaving.
I feel mixed because I guess sure if he wants EU to have its own military like UN having but same time due of current political reality within Europe and his Popularity in his native nation are bad, It’s less unlikely going to happen for now.
At the same time, a country shouldn't feel forced into the economic union just to take part in this. We should be able to appreciate each others sovereignty and trade decisions while still accepting each other as continental and historical allies.
This has been considered before, an EU united army could be the most powerful military force in the world, the hard part is finding a way to make it serve the EU as a whole.
But at the same time, an army is an important part of the sovereignty of any country. Even if a EU force is created, I do not think any country will let go of their national armies.
It's called Nato. EU does not need a private army.
NATO is fine, or would be if certain nations actually spent on their own defence to the agreed target instead of just freeloading off the US/UK/France
EU doesn't own NATO, officially nobody does but unofficially the United States does.
NATO isn't a European military for European defense, it's a global alliance of dozens of different nations. There is nothing saying an EU military could not be a member of NATO, and I'm personally of the belief that a centralized European military still under NATO would exponentially increase the military power of the west.
NATO is basically an extension of the US though; Macron doesn't want the U.S to have any say in this new one.
EU army yes, NATO membership no. An EU force should be an explicitly defensive force. I don't want all of Europe being dragged into a war some other NATO member gets involved in. No country or countries in particular of course.
But NATO is already a defensive force, if a NATO member strikes first other members are not forced to join him, it's only if NATO is attacked that all members are forced to join.
No EU country would be willing hand over their military to a superior command that they barely have a say over, its an issue of sovereignty. EU militaries should work closer together, but not actually combine or take orders from the EU itself.
Who in their right mind is going to die for Europe? Are there any people that feel more European than their own nationality? I've got very little in common with people who live over 100km away, let alone 1000.
why die for Danzig lmao, am I right? /s
I have a relative who is buried in your country where he died fighting for Europe. We're from the other side of the world.
I'm a-okay for national armies supporting allies. I just doubt anybody would enlist for a european army when there is already few that enlist for the national one.
No disrespect for allies that saved my grandparents' arses
Oh, thanks for clarifying - I thought that you meant something else!
I presume that national armies would make up any European army.
Not many people serve in the national armies, but if you combined all the military of EU countries tomorrow the total manpower would be ~1.8 million.
And in the event of a crisis, I'm sure many millions more can be mobilised.
But yeah, I'm not really sure if I support the idea or not.
Announcing this at the centenary is a bit raw though.
I think it's a great idea. The practical aspect has already been tested over and over with great effect. Just look at the annual NATO exercises such as Cold Response, Trident Juncture, Northern Coasts and BALTOPS. Even non-NATO states such as Sweden and Finland participate as well.
The only thing needed would be a unified command group to manage all of the various army, navy and air force units.
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