Apparently Gottlieb is one of the <5 Trump administration members who are doing their job competently.
fuck i was looking forward to going back to america and buying more duty free Camel Crush
I'm not sure how I feel about this.
>Dr. Gottlieb insisted that the restrictions were akin to a ban. “This policy will make sure the fruity flavors are no longer accessible to kids in retail sites, plain and simple,” he said. “That’s where they’re getting access to the e-cigs and we intend to end those sales.”
If kids are vaping how about we deal with that and not assume that if stop allowing fruity flavors the kids will just stop? I mean, this kind of stuff is acceptable so why are they going after flavored smoke stuff so hard?
On the other hand, a lot of menthol-smokers would quit if they couldn't get menthols anymore so I kind of support a menthol-ban as it would only be a benefit. Especially to african-american communities where menthol is pushed hard. But I just don't see how banning fruity flavors is going to make an impact on vaping teens.
I also wonder how many of these kids, 5 or 10 years ago, would have just smoked to look cool instead. Not that I'm suggesting everything's dandy because vaping>smoking, I'm just saying that maybe these kids are coming from the same place of edginess and rebellion as smoker kids and maybe flavors having nothing to do with it. Maybe if you were going to smoke for the very first time there's no reason to pick tobacco flavor when lemon drop exists and that doesn't necessarily mean you would never have started if lemon drop wasn't an option.
How would you deal with that?
If they want to smoke they're going to smoke. I tried at six from peer pressure and curiosity and guess what? Decided to not do it after that first time, regardless on what other people thought.
Banning flavors won't change anything for kids smoking. It's a useless effort.
As far as menthol goes, that was one of the ones I tried. Don't see the point in banning them either.
Now if they banned cigarettes and e-cigs entirely, that would be something I'd support.
Apparently they've already banned the sale of menthol cigarettes in Canada, or at least in Ontario. I went to the corner store to buy a pack one day as I hadn't had a menthol in a few years and the store keeper told me they haven't sold menthols for quite a while now. I didn't realize they had banned menthols. I don't even know the reason why.
Well the quote I pulled from the article seems to be suggesting that kids are getting them primarily from retail places. If that's the case, it's the same as corner stores that don't ID for alcohol. I'm not an expert by any means so I'd just be guessing but I'd assume you would increase the amount of the fines for that violation to the point it's no longer profitable. Most places make enough money off minors to ignore the law, at least in my local experience.
But you can also buy vape stuff online just by checking a box that says you're 18+, that seems pretty obviously bad. I don't see much point in clamping down restrictions on brick and mortar places when any kid could bulk order online and be a vape dealer for his underage friends. I don't really have the answers for how exactly you enforce restrictions for online purchases... I'm just saying banning flavors doesn't seem like it would make a dent in the issue.
why should menthol even be in cigarettes in the first place? it's used to target african-americans and to get them hooked.
The tobacco industry has fought to protect menthol for many years, to the frustration of public health activists, especially in the African-American community. Menthol is particularly popular among black smokers, and black leaders have accused the tobacco industry of targeting African-American communities in marketing campaigns.
In a statement circulated upon news of the ban, the NAACP, National Urban League, the National Medical Association, and the African American Tobacco Control Leadership Council said a menthol ban is long overdue. “While we’re saddened by the number of lives lost and new smokers addicted over the past decade, we’re pleased that the F.D.A. is moving in this direction,” said Delmonte Jefferson, executive director of the National African American Tobacco Prevention Network.
The group also praised the agency for taking on flavored cigars. “Little cigars like Black & Milds and Swisher Sweets are heavily marketed to African Americans and are often cheaper in our neighborhoods,” said LaTroya Hester, a spokesman for the network. “A lot of young, black kids don’t know that cigarillos are just as dangerous, so hopefully this will send that message. This is a huge step in protecting their health — it’s about time our young people are prioritized.”
As well, banning menthol will also hopefully drive down cigarette sales overall, as they account for about 35% of cigarette sales in the US.
To echo a Dr. quoted in the article:
Kenneth Warner, a public health professor emeritus at the University of Michigan, and longtime tobacco expert, disagreed emphatically with the argument that there isn’t enough evidence to rid the market of menthol.
“The science is very strong,” Dr. Warner said. “This is what the tobacco industry was saying a couple of decades ago about lung cancer — the science wasn’t strong enough.” Menthol, he said, does not cause disease but it does lure more people to smoking and make it more difficult to quit. “If you would remove it,” he said, “you would avoid many smoking-caused deaths.”
I appreciate your longer-form post, but I buy cigarettes and have bought vaporisers before, and whilst menthol are nice when one starts, it's not going to stop us if you ban them. Cigarettes are a large black market in the UK, with 20% of sales already being under ground, so banning just reduces tax benefits to any healthcare system anyway.
I wouldn't have started smoking if they weren't available in shops, but I do think they should remain legal to encourage taxes.
You can argue that the kids using these would've smoked anyway but I don't buy it. Cigarette smell clings to everything, it's really harsh on your lungs and throat if you aren't used to it, it's a bit difficult to hide that you smoke and you have to do it in a designated spot outdoors. All of these things will either turn newcomers off or make them not want to try at all. Juuls have literally none of these problems.
Honestly the FDA could seize the whole company and it'd make little difference because they've already hooked their users on nicotine. The damage is done
I say good. 8th graders getting addicted to nicotine through Juuls is probably the stupidest and saddest thing ever. And it's everywhere.
This just in, only younger people like candy and the only reason that you would ever make a sweet flavor would be if you were trying to trick children into buying your product even though it's completely illegal to sell it to them anyway.
Bans that are based on the mantra of "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" are completely ridiculous. Kids aren't vaping nicotine salt vapes for the flavor, they're doing it because they have a fuckton of nicotine in them.
You'll learn this soon enough, but a vast majority of the populace is stupid.
I know a bunch of people who only smoke menthols and cant stand the flavour of normal cigs. Would probably force them to quit.
I knew a guy with asthma who smoked menthols because "it helped his lungs". :why:
All these "oh yay they'll be forced to quit" I'm a menthol smoker, and I think it's bullshit. I get cigs are bad, but who are any of you to tell me what us cigs smokers can and can't do? I ain't hurting no one but myself, and I acknowledge that burden, but I like my cigs after I been dealing with idiots and scrubbing goddamn toilets. Leave my damn cigs alone, and try to make a healthy cig.
fuck menthol is all i smoke, come on now.
I completely support this.
I work at a vape shop, and the entire industry is at threat because of underage folk getting their hands on stuff like this. This would make it to where flavored items are restricted exclusively to places where you are 100% going to be ID'd, which could potentially save the industry from the end we've been worried about due to more extreme proposed bans.
And, in my opinion, the fewer cigarettes on the market, the better.
what are you talking about, there is no way to make a healthy cig. you inhale air, anything else that goes in your lungs is pretty much bad for them. i wasnt saying theyll be forced to quit in a smoking is bad for you, i meant in the way that they don't like normal cigs, they only like menthols. i'm a smoker, but i'm trying to quit. i'm not gonna tell anyone what to do with their bodies.
cigarettes do not relieve stress, nicotine releases dopamine, you crave that release so you crave a cigarette to release it.
Sounds like a scheme by big vape to get people to switch
I definitely see where this ban comes from, but I'm not sure I agree with it. The step between not smoking and smoking is so big compared to the step between smoking menthol cigarettes and plain ones that I think the effect will be too small to be worth the ban.
I ain't hurting no one but myself
Wrong. At the absolute minimum, even if you go out to the middle of nowhere to have a smoke (which I doubt to be the case), you're still burning some bullshit, releasing said bullshit into the atmosphere, leaving you with a tab-end which most people tend to dispose of by dashing it on ground, bin if they're somewhat courteous. More realistically, you're again at the very least contributing to air pollution in your town/city, and more than likely exposing people to second-hand smoke even if you're making best effort to avoid doing so. All while also being yet another customer for the tobacco industry and tacitly encouraging them to continue to produce a harmful drug.
Maybe you're not hurting anyone directly and/or significantly, but smoking is inherently harmful to persons other than yourself.
As an "ex"-smoker of 10 years, it was rarely ever relaxing to me (sans a certain other ingredient anyway, but that's beyond the point). It's more like my mood and ability to concentrate are being held hostage against satisfying my addiction to nicotine, and smoking after a few hours' deprivation is only ever relief that I'm not going to spend the next few going mental. I say "ex" and use the present tense cause I'm on a vape myself, only way I could reasonably quit cigs is by having a more addictive alternative. They're the closest thing we're going to get for the foreseeable future to "a cig that [i]sn't bad".
All that said though, going after flavoured cigarettes and vape fluids is plain dumb. Like someone else said, if kids are going to try smoking they're going to try it and there's no two ways about that. And if they are, it's best it's something that doesn't (seem to) do anywhere near as much damage to their health if they get hooked on it.
However I do think e-liquids containing nicotine should be restricted (regardless of flavour), but in a way that it's still just as accessible for those who are using it as a means to quit smoking cigarettes like myself.
Those fruit flavors are specifically designed for kids and teenagers, JUUL and other Vape manufacturers have openly admitted this and outside of JUUL those manufacturers have dropped for fruit flavors.
It's like screaming about the Camel isn't designed for kids, except yeah, it is. The fruit flavors are not for adults, period. You're not the target audience.
This whole attitude of "if they're going to do it, they'll do it regardless" is stupidly fatalistic. If certain people are destined to smoke regardless then why do cigarette companies fight and lobby to prevent plain packaging and warning labels, while keeping advertising?
Exactly. Menthol also makes up a huge amount of the market, this will make a huge dent in the amount of smoking overall.
Big tobacco will fight tooth and nail to keep their profits up, but it's up to us to stop them.
Source on the fruit flavors being specifically designed to target underage consumers?
I usually avoid using PhillyD as a source but his team actually interviewed researchers looking into why the E-Cigs have taken off and those include that JUUL's shape is easy to hide from parents and teachers, the kids actively prefer the sweet flavors and additionally that JUUL and ontop of that JUUL was selling themselves as a lifestyle choice which exactly the kind of advertising traditional tobacco used up until the 80s and 90s.
about 50 years too late on that one guys.
Time to switch boys
https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/230750505012297728/513216678297993226/CYDa4moWYAEGGRL.png
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