Merkel: National states should now be ready to give up their sovereignty
20 replies, posted
https://www.tvn24.pl/wiadomosci-ze-swiata,2/merkel-panstwa-narodowe-powinny-byc-gotowe-do-oddania-suwerennosci,886441.html
*Translation from Polish*
National states should now be ready to give up their sovereignty - said German Chancellor Angela Merkel during the debate in Berlin. However, she stipulated that this should be done in an orderly manner and with the inalienable role of national parliaments.
"The nation are people who live permanently in a given country," Merkel stressed that Germany gave away some of its sovereignty to the European Union, but indicated that it was "the Member States that remained the masters of the Treaties". The transfer of sovereignty should, in her opinion, take place "naturally in an orderly manner" and require the decision of national parliaments, because "it is the parliament that is the heart of democracy". Mutual trust and willingness to compromise was indicated as the key elements in the current period of tensions in the domestic and international arena. She judged that the debates on the UN International Pact on Migration showed that the foundations are being questioned. "Doubts are expressed about the UN's democratic legitimacy and its conventions, even when they have long been adopted by national parliaments," Merkel said.
"There are people who think that they can determine, when these agreements expire because they represent a nation", she added. Meanwhile, she pointed out, "people are people who live permanently in a given country, not a group that defines them as a nation."
Among the speeches at the conference, the Konrad Adenauer Foundation notes, inter alia, the words of former Polish President Bronisław Komorowski, who in the context of the May European elections drew attention to the growing number of eurosceptics in the EU. He claimed that in Poland "the percentage of Europe's supporters is between 60-70 percent", and he argued that Poland wants to remain part of the EU and the associated community of values.
Peak Brexit argument achieved. Thanks for playing.
How about an article in English or from more sources, please ?
They should give up their sovereignty to become part of a big sovereignty of her choosing instead, I assume she means.
If i understood the Google Translate part correctly, then It's someone that is essentially in the process. It is the call for the creation of a United States of Europe.
So we've finally arrived at the public phase of the globalist plan.
Yes, it is indeed about the European integration. Both Merkel and Macron believe European Federation is the end goal of European Integration.
ya but its just a horrible time to be building a case for that.
Honestly she shouldn't be saying stuff like that right now, there political atmosphere in Europe is extremely volatile and nationalists will capitalise on it.
A European Federation is a good extremely long term goal, but it is nowhere near ready for it.
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Am I supposed to see this post or did I accidently access the freemasons section?
Not even the most pro-EU countries will accept that, and she's preaching to Poland out of all countries?
Such an insane idea I feel like I'm misundertanding or missing something.
In any case it hardly matters even if important leader people are calling for "transfer of sovereignty", since all they can do is ask the member countries to do it, democratically, and they will say not.
It's a more complicated issue than my post suggests. I don't agree with giving up national identity or anything but I think ultimately a more united Europe would be a good thing.
Assuming I am not misunderstanding her, this sounds like the bad political calculation from somebody like Hillary Clinton. I thought Merkel was smarter than this.
Europe Federation can gladly fuck off
While many people might think this is some new-age shit. Here is a quote by your own Winston Churchill. The concept of a united Europe isn't anything new. It's just now we are at a time when we are on our way to be a joined nation.
"Yet all the while there is a remedy which, if it were generally and spontaneously adopted by the great majority of people in many lands, would as by a miracle transform the whole scene and would in a few years make all Europe, or the greater part of it, as free and happy as Switzerland is today. What is this sovereign remedy? It is to recreate the European fabric, or as much of it as we can, and to provide it with a structure under which it can dwell in peace, safety and freedom. We must build a kind of United States of Europe. In this way only will hundreds of millions of toilers be able to regain the simple joys and hopes which make life worth living. The process is simple. All that is needed is the resolve of hundreds of millions of men and women to do right instead of wrong and to gain as their reward blessing instead of cursing."
https://winstonchurchill.org/resources/speeches/1946-1963-elder-statesman/united-states-of-europe/
And if you haven't noticed then the EU is already a form of a United States of Europe. A very successful one and with the military might of joining them altogether - a powerful military power as well.
Is the article poorly translated or something? I feel like she's saying the EU countries should increase their cooperation or something but it's mistranslated for some reason.
Here's an English article, not a great source but it'll do for now.
This is just a poorly-worded (poorly-translated?) call for international cooperation.
Every single agreement between states is necessarily "handing over sovereignty." If the sovereign, whether that's a parliament or an individual, rules to constrain their ability to act independently in order to cooperate with other nations, they're surrendering their sovereignty. Oh no, woe is me, if our nation signed up to the Chemical Weapons Convention and then arbitrarily said fuck it we want to launch nerve gas on the (problematic minority group challenging the status quo), tough shit - they surrendered their sovereignty to an international treaty, constraining them from doing so.
She is not threatening armed takeover. She's not demanding the abdication of the governments of EU member states. She's simply stating a basic fact of international relations. Nation-states that sign agreements that constrain their sovereignty, through an orderly and legitimate democratic process, for the benefit of all parties, are expressing a form of patriotism greater than the isolationist, divisive, us-vs-them nationalism plaguing Britain, Poland, and half of Eastern Europe. Merkel is dismissing the "keep our nation strong" rhetoric used in Brexit that frames mutually beneficial cooperation between states as impending globalist takeovers that need to be stopped, regardless of the very real costs to the people in the nation.
Merkel explicitly states that there needs to be "an orderly process," aka a government ratifying an international treaty that constrains their own behavior for the benefit of all. If Poland left the EU, they'd be in far worse economic shape than Britain. For what? Abstract notions of sovereignty? Hooray, we got rid of those international agreements, now we have more... uh... more expensive goods and fewer economic opportunities for our people? We won! Kicked out the globalists trying to cram regulations down our throats, that our government votes for, and signs off on, and actively participates in debating and enacting.
Merkel is absolutely right here. Nation-states should be prepared to surrender their sovereignty if they want to engage in an international community of any kind - because all international relations involve surrendering sovereignty. Sign a free-trade deal with Canada? Wow, globalists are taking over, your country has given up its sovereign right to dictate the import/export price of goods! Border security is going to collapse! Oh, wait, every single country does this everywhere all the fucking time.
Torpedoing our own economy to own the Huns?
i thought the peak brexit argument was how well brexit was going? oh wait
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