The first game I ever played with proper dual-stick controllers was Descent and now I can't play console games without inverted y, the entire 5 minutes is just padding for a 30 second argument, but still, if you think about the crosshair as being what you move, and it being a 3d point extended into the distance it makes sense as to why you would use normal y-look.
My y-axis is fucked now when I wield a controller I fiddle about until I am either comfortable with either one.
Either way, we are trained to follow our cursor on desktop. You need to rewire your brain to imagine up=forward in 3d space. It also doesn't help if you play with your wrist instead of arm.
No.
The mouse/thumbstick represents your vision, not the hand holding the weapon. Also when I look down I think "I'm looking down", not "I'm tiling my head forward"
But then again, the sort of person who would invert y is the sort of person who would make the toilet roll go underneath the roll, or would butter the outside of their bread, and wipe their ass before taking a shit.
The only place where inverted camera controls are acceptable are in airplanes.
Inverted controls should be saved for aerial vehicles or flying.
Your brain is a very complex and amazing thing, at the same time it is exceedingly stupid and as such doesn't need an extra step when thinking about the mechanics of moving a fictional characters head.
Move stick up, look up. Caveman logic.
I would laugh at his outrageous claims, but that would make me a hypocrite and put me in an awkward position because lately I've been playing with the inverted y-axis on some shooters like Quake and Unreal.
I expected to crash and burn right from the start, but turns out it ain't so bad after all. Especially since it makes me perform much calmer shots compared to my previous twitchy trickshot attempts with non-invert which I miss 80% of the time.
Still, I agree with what Task Manager said. Except that I use non-invert in air vehicles, because I'm an odd bastard.
yes, looking up when you move the mouse up is totally intuitive and i dont understand why it needs defending. why doesn't this guy think that the cursor shouldn't also be inverted, as you need to pull your head back to look up to follow the cursor?
inverted Y is the way to go with planes because that's how they actually control
If you strip away the hostility and madeup "science" in this video there's maybe like about half a minute of a somewhat reasonable explanation as to why someone would prefer Y-inverted controls. Not really getting what the dude's getting so worked up about though, did he get bullied in school over this or something?
Flying a plane with keyboard controls is the worst because without the physical push/pull my brain just refuses to comprehend the axis.
i couldn't disagree more but this guy's entertaining
If your explanation of why moving up makes you look up is wrong is because you're actually piloting the torso of a human sized mecha rotating around the waist then you're a hipster
Wow that's pretty dumb. If the mouse/thumbstick represents your neck then he's right. If it represents your view/nose/index finger, then no. Absolutely your own choice and both should be considered equally right. Inverted Y-axis in flight sim games is probably chosen because those games want to emulate gravity and the feeling of steering a plane, whereas shooters just want to emulate the feeling of looking around like a normal person - and nobody thinks of looking up as rolling their eyes backwards from above. Also, if pulling back represents tilting your wrist back and up, as though rolling a ball under the mouse, then moving the mouse left should cause you to lean left, which works in plane simulations but would be awful for a shooter. There will always be some simplification outside of VR, so whatever feels right, is right.
It's completely arbitrary, it has nothing to do with immersion.
You'll adapt quickly enough to whatever configuration you interface with and not notice the difference. If you have someone wear glasses that invert everything they see for a week, they'll adapt well enough that removing the glasses will be disorienting after a few days.
Inverted axis should be available to facilitate use for those that are used to it, but shouldn't be seen as a major fault when not implemented. Look at people that play games with guitar hero controllers and DDR pads - our brains are great at adapting to these things.
One of my high school friends plays every game with inverted Y-axis. I hate playing games at his house or vice versa because I forget to change the setting.
The only time I can think of that it's warranted is on an aircraft game, as aircraft in reality use this configuration, presumably so you don't have to fight against g-forces.
Simple mnemonic device, friend: S for SHIT PULL UP and W for WOOHOO! FASTER FASTER.
i'm a simple man: if i'm playing with a controller i invert the y-axis; if I'm using m&kb i keep it non-inverted.
Obviously you invert the y axis because you move yourself forward to look down and backward to look up.
and you need to invert the x axis too because you move yourself leftward to look right and rightward to look left
I don't really perceive it as like controlling the character's head or the physical motion of how you look. Its very, very mechanical to me. The view needs to go up, so the input needs to go up. The view needs to go down, so the input needs to go down.
This follows with aircraft in games typically as well. I don't take in to consideration if its realistic to how the vehicle actually controls, its the mechanical aspects of it. The only exception to this is with helicopters in some games because to go forward you need to angle the nose down. So depending on the vehicle physics of helicopters in some games I may invert the y-axis for controlling those because the vehicle needs to go forward so the input needs to go forward.
So that's why so many games have that invert option? Darn Flight Control casual gamers.
filthy inverted Y-axis degenerate reporting in.
i didn't used to use it at first, but i thought it was funny to swap the inversion on my friend's XBox games and see him struggle to line up shots before he eventually asked me to put it back (he had no idea how to change the option himself.)
eventually though, i started to find myself pushing my stick up to aim down (and vice-versa,) and i thought that it was going to go away after a while... but it didn't. it started to happen with the mouse, too. i tried to grind shooters with normal mouselook, but it was too late for me, i was throwing my mouse forwards to rocket jump and pulling it in for a hug to aim for the head. the joke i played on him was actually one i played on myself... my whole brain was inverted.
looking into it, there was no cure. it was chronic. it took a lot of time and therapy, but eventually, however, i accepted my disability; i turn the 'invert mouse' accessibility option on in every game i play with pride. i won't let it change who i am as a person.
also, it's still really fucking funny to watch my friends try to aim on my set-ups; 'pass me the controller' is a death wish.
Why does everyone call it the Y-axis? That's lefty righty movement.
X-axis is uppy downy movement.
Z-axis is curious-dog-head-tilt and Tim-Allen-'eughh?' movement.
I invert the Y-axis on controllers. Just from having played the likes of Mechwarrior quite a bit with a joystick, it feels wrong pushing a stick up to loook up.
Reminds me back of the Halo 1 & 2 days with local multiplayer. There were more people than we had controllers, so we'd take turns and people would have to keep switching back and forth with y-axis. I thought it was annoying and just learned how to play both ways.
I'm honestly surprised more people don't use inverted Y. I don't think one is better than the other, but I've always used inverted Y because the first 3D shooters I played were Turok and Goldeneye on the N64, both of which have inverted aiming by default. I guess if your first 3D shooters were on the PC, you'd be more likely to use non-inverted.
But as widespread and popular as those N64 shooters were, I'm surprised they didn't imprint inverted aiming on more people.
This obviously makes no sense as soon as you think about a 6dof game like descent. Because pitch, yaw and roll are all "equal", you'd need to invert all control directions or none, there is no "leaning" you just command up, left, right, down.
There's nothing saying that that must be the case. I'm pretty sure in most if not all aircraft, pitch is "inverted", ie pull back to nose up, roll corresponds to the direction you're rolling in ie stick right to roll right - while yaw is typically on pedals, which to my understanding are also typically "inverted", ie right pedal to yaw left.
cool five minute video but no, you're still alien.
X-plane is horizontal, y-plane is vertical, z-plane is depth.
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