• Teacher refused to use trans student's pronouns, school fires him.
    213 replies, posted
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc-out/teacher-fired-refusing-use-transgender-student-s-pronouns-n946006 Witnesses described a “slip-up” when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop “her.” When discussing the incident with administrators, Vlaming made it clear he would not use male pronouns, a stance that led to his suspension referral for disciplinary action. Vlaming told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for the student. Vlaming said he had the student in class the year before when the student identified as female. Vlaming’s attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the student’s name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise. “That discrimination then leads to creating a hostile learning environment. And the student had expressed that. The parent had expressed that,” said West Point schools Superintendent Laura Abel. “They felt disrespected.”
Vlaming told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for the student. Pretty sure that doesn't prevent you from being a decent human being. Believing in Jesus does not excuse being a cunt. Quite the contrary, it's really intended to encourage not being a cunt.
“That is not tolerance,” Vlaming said. “That is coercion" He's right.
being bare minimum respectful is apparantly coercion now
Why should intolerance be tolerated?
No, but using the law to enforce respect is coercion.
Free speech should be tolerated. Judge him by the content of his speech, but forcing him to comply doesn't do anybody any good.
him getting fired was a consequence of repeatedly disrespecting the transgender student by referring to him as a she and not his desired pronoun, thus purposedly creating tensions and discomfort for the student. the right to free speech doesn't mean that you're untouchable by any consequence, you can and most likely will lose your job if you start promoting stuff like hate speech for example.
this is a bullying issue, not muh free speech. teachers are 'coerced' into not being cunts yeah. it's in the job description. see ya later.
Except he's the one lawyering up. The school has every right to sack a teacher that does not comply with the guidelines and is causing distress to students.
this doesn't even have to be about identity either, any teacher that disrespects students in similar fashion regardless of what ideally should suffer the same consequence. it becomes less about your right to an opinion and more how you behave towards your students/fellow man
A teacher dehumanizing a student on religious grounds goes a little beyond "free speech".
Free speech does not mean freedom of consequences
Free speech only means it's legal to say what you want, not that saying shit does not have consequences. The consequences of refusing to tolerate other people in a job like teaching is getting fired.
if your dumbfuck politics worm their way into your job and thus you treat your students with anything less than complete decency you shouldn't be a teacher.
God damn you, man of bread.
He is free to be discriminatory. Employers are free to have a problem with that. There's plenty of court cases supporting restrictions on free speech while you are acting as an agent of someone or something else. A public school may actually have to fire him, because government entities acting against gender/sex/orientation/religion etc opens them up to far more civil rights lawsuits than a private entity may face.
Maybe you should read: Witnesses described a “slip-up” when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop “her.” Vlaming’s attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the student’s name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise. Nondiscrimination policies were updated a year ago to include protections for gender identity, but didn’t include guidance on gender pronoun use, according to Vlaming’s lawyer, Voyles, who notes Vlaming has constitutional rights. “One of those rights that is not curtailed is to be free from being compelled to speak something that violates your conscience,” Voyles said. Vlaming said he loves and respects all his students but when a solution he tried to reach based on “mutual tolerance” was rejected, he was at risk of losing his job for having views held by “most of the world for most of human history.” You're making this guy to be an abuser that want's to bully this teenager because "muh christian values". Maybe you should rethink how you judge other people.
Vlaming told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for the student. Vlaming said he had the student in class the year before when the student identified as female.
He literally said himself that he refuses to use the guy's proper pronouns on religious grounds, how is this not bullying due to Christian values? The "Somebody stop her" comment is not the problem, that could happen to anyone, especially when he clearly knew the student from before he identified as male. It's his continued refusal to use proper pronoun that's the problem. Which he is free to have. And the school is free to fire him for.
You know what, I'll do as you say as judge him by his character and actions. Vlaming’s attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to use the student’s name and to avoid feminine pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise. He's offering a compromise so he can still avoid using the student's proffered pronouns. Oh the hero.
Witnesses described a “slip-up” when the student was about to run into a wall and Vlaming told others to stop “the jew.” Vlaming’s attorney, Shawn Voyles, says his client offered to call them a jew and avoid slurs as well as their name or pronouns, but Voyles says the school was unwilling to accept the compromise. Nondiscrimination policies were updated a year ago to include protections for religion, but didn’t include guidance on interaction, according to Vlaming’s lawyer, Voyles, who notes Vlaming has constitutional rights. “One of those rights that is not curtailed is to be free from being compelled to speak something that violates your conscience,” Voyles said. Vlaming said he loves and respects all his students but when a solution he tried to reach based on “mutual tolerance” was rejected, he was at risk of losing his job for having views held by “most of the world for most of human history.”
since when is respect not included in a teacher's code of conduct?
Because it was being described as a "slip up" i.e. it isn't something that happens often. He was just confused because in the previous year the student was a "her". There was no intent to cause harm. He will not violate his conscience but he offered a compromise and even promised to avoid female pronouns.
Not in the slip-up. Which I already said wasn't the problem, I would have honestly probably made the same mistake in the situation, if it went down as described. It could have been an honest mistake for all we know. That is, if we didn't know more. Which we do. Because he said it himself. The problem is that he said afterwards that he refuses to use the student's proper pronoun due to religious grounds, that's the part that's being a cunt.
Except when confronted, he made it clear he wasn't going to change it anyway because of religous grounds: Vlaming told superiors that his Christian faith prevented him from using male pronouns for the student. Vlaming said he had the student in class the year before when the student identified as female. I even pulled that out of the article for you, but you really want to look like boo boo the fool i guess.
And he refuses to take the last step to referring to the student by their preferred pronouns out of some nebulous beliefs. This is not some outlandish request on the student's part either. So he has no real excuse to refuse outside of religious reasons, which do not work as an excuse when you're a teacher.
Basically, being wrong once is a 'whoopsie' that you can get away with with a simple "Sorry, won't happen again" and all will be good. Going on record saying that you intend to be wrong forever, but if being wrong offends people that much, you can instead use super-contrived and awkward language and make a huge effort to never ever be right.
Schools are meant to prepare you for the real world, not be safe spaces Said teacher wanted a safe space to be a dick to a child and not face repercussions. Are you so blind that you can't realize how much of a hypocrite you are right now?
You guys are completely unable to accept compromise. This will surely lead to a better society. There's nothing else for me to say unless new facts pop up.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.