[AU] Gov recognises West Jerusalem as Israel's capital, embassy to stay put

[Hellhammer]

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-12-15/government-recognises-west-jerusalem-but-keeps-tel-aviv-embassy/10614226

I had the make the thread title short, due to its character limit.

[Mighty AU]

You ever told a lie, and then when you’re about to be discovered, you have the choice to come out with the truth or lie even harder? Yeah this is like the latter. Literally the only reason why they contemplated recognising a different capital/moving the embassy in the first place was a pathetic attempt to buy votes in the Wentworth byelection. Which the Liberals lost, lmao.

[Newb]

Are you aware of the fact there is more to middle-eastern politics in regards to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict than whether a policy is "right"? (whatever that means)

Every single action done here must be considered within the context of likely result, and no matter how you look at it, recognizing Jerusalem (even just west Jerusalem) as Israel's capital not only doesn't accomplish anything in regard to the peace process as it currently stands, it can actively cause unnecessary unrest that will likely cost both in lives and in property damages, and while you can of course look at the possible resulting unrest as the unlawful actions of misguided masses if you want to - it doesn't change the fact that things will happen that were entirely avoidable.

There is a difference between "negotiating with a terrorist organization" and speaking to existent local political entities (such as the PA) in order to achieve a less bloody and more stable peace, temporary as it may be. Sure, sometimes this talking gets nowhere, but obviously you're gonna have to reach a certain understanding with the authorities perceived as legitimate by the population in order to reach any meaningful peace with that same population - you can't just walk in with soldiers and enforce military rule indefinitely (this is in fact why the whole arrangement with the PA exists, and why, at least nominally, the IDF has withdrawn from the Gaza Strip proper).

Nobody, except the most absolutely stupid and horribly deluded, claims that the unhappiness of the Palestinian population as a whole with their situation (a justified emotion) somehow justifies terrorist actions and repeated calls for the indiscriminate assault against Israeli targets, both military and civilian.

[Saint Furrybutt]

They don't call themselves that anymore and prefer as State of Palestine since 2013 with UN make PA as non-member observed state like Vatican City.

But yes @Malphas naive view of Israeli-Palestinian conflict is don't see bigger picture that if all western nation's recognized Israeli capital is not Tel Aviv and preferring Jerusalem as nation's capital will spark second Arabian-Israeli War for invading their Islamic holy sites.

[Sableye]

this won't cause a military conflict. Israel's neighbors are pretty much on some level recognize their existence now. this only buys you brownie points with israel and pro israeli groups of your own electorate. the one downside is it pretty much shits on any attempt to negotiate a peace with the Palestinians who want their share of jeruselem, which in this case austrailia isn't even going whole trump and recognizing the whole thing and putting the embassy there as well. this is the smallest step they can do to appease a rather small group.

[Saint Furrybutt]

I mean their civilians who living next to Israeli border will likely do but their government will continue don't recognized over obvious reasons (historical and religious).
Yes, Because it sound mostly pragmatic move of not lose relations with Oil contain Middle Eastern countries if they doing that unlike US in near future.
Oh, Even Israeli trying doing that unrealistically, It will pissing still existing whining Zionist babies of wishing unified Israeli land for their outdated beliefs, then creating Terrorist organizations and unofficial cultural police as result. But regardless this will never resolved if any Western nations (but mostly US) need to stop giving Israeli more military upgrades to keep Status Quo any longer before every Middle Eastern nation once again will aide Palestine for next Arabian-Israeli War.

[Newb]

I understand you will likely not reply to this any time soon, as you are banned, but I think it necessary dropping this post here anyway.

I have no way to know whether you're a local or not, but it really doesn't matter much because the core point of mine is the same - it is very simple to talk about "setting things in motion" when it is likely you aren't the one to bear the full brunt of the consequences of these actions. I do fully believe a large part the status quo exists as it does is the result of apathy and corruption on part of the political entities mediating a solution to this conflict, and that both fully intend to preserve their power over the reality of offering a hard solution and potentially losing it.

Palestinians will never accept Israel rule? Are you unaware of the fact some of the former Palestinians have in fact fully accepted Israeli citizenship and assimilated socially and economically in daily life? Are you also unaware of the fact that the whole fucking point of a two state solution as an idea is to allow national self-determination for the ones who will not do so?

Tell me please, how does one put in practice your "simple solution" when:

A) To get rid of Hamas is to get rid of a democratically erected government, one that, had Palestinian democracy not been frozen, would have ruled the West Bank as well. There is also the question of how does one do this without re-entering the Gaza Strip full force at the cost of countless lives, the occupation of which will be much harder than the West Bank (and occupation is not peace).

B) The PA's government is currently not democratically elected, yes, but it is the only body which the State of Israel recognizes as a party to the peace talks on behalf of all Palestinians. Who do you expect to take their place, or, as I suspect, do you just expect to solve any resistance to a blatant disregard of possible dialogue with bullets and force?

C) I assume you mean get rid of the general religious influence in government, which includes both the ultra-orthodox parties as well as nationalist religious ones. Tough luck, not only are these representative of a large portion of the voter bloc, Israel is expected to in fact get more religious, not less so.

It is impossible to not mix religion with the state when one defines the state as "Jewish and Democratic", the Jewish part being free to define religiously (as opposed to ethnically, not that that option is better) by whatever politicians hold power. Good luck getting that to change democratically when the main voting bloc is the privileged party in the status quo.

D) As for the reasons stated above, getting rid of the settlements "just like that" would be impossible to balance when one already faces increasing unrest due to acting to bring in motion the other three points you have suggested. One would be stuck in a two-front dealing with unrest both from the nationalist and religious Jews as well as the nationalist and religious Arabs. In fact to even suggest doing this as an incumbent military figure of consequence or seated politician is career suicide, and no sane man would even think about doing any of these as a result.

Consider, perhaps, why this conflict is considered the most difficult political equivalent of a Gordian Knot in the history of recent modern geopolitics - a knot you suggest we solve by simply cutting it.

The State of Israel, as well as the many political and economic interests that make up significant parties to this conflict on the Israeli side are as to blame for it continuing as their Palestinian equivalents, not to mention those who blindly support either "side", forgetting that things are not so simple that talking of just two sides is in any way an accurate representation of things.

The only way one might offer "simple solutions", as you have done, is either out of not knowing the potential cost in lives setting these plans in motion will have, or not caring who has to die for "peace".
It seems to me that you are like those you accused of forming their opinions from "just reading headlines", the sole differentiating factor between you and them then would be that you read other ones.