Once were gardeners, lovers, and poets - not warriors
22 replies, posted
https://thespinoff.co.nz/atea/19-12-2018/once-were-gardeners-lovers-and-poets-not-warriors/
An article about how cultural appropriation can cause real harm.
"In 2015, after being signed for Aquaman, Jason Momoa offered the following on how haka made him feel: “When I did the haka, I went in and it was so fuckin’ awesome and gnarly, and they didn’t know that shit was going to happen. They didn’t even have a camera rolling, so they asked me to come back in and do it again. I did a nicer version the second time, because the first time my heart was pounding out of my chest and I was thinking kill, kill KILL! My adrenaline was out of control and I just called down to my ancestors and was ready to rape and pillage and defend the village. Then, I had to test a love scene right after.”"
yikes, this is the first i've heard of that and that's really ugly
Eh idk if really meant exactly that. Just appears more like a bad attempt at dark comedy.
This is a stinky piece
Lost me at unironic use of 'problematic'
I wouldn't call it a "Stinky" piece.
Cause it does make some understandable points. Like the idea of how certain ethnic groups or parts of the histories of those ethnic groups can be blown out of proportion and oftentimes exaggerated to the point of being intermixed with fantasy. From what i got is that the writer of this piece was saying how the Maori people are often looked as a Warrior Culture as a whole. Where the general consensus tends to group them into the usual cliche of the "Noble Savage". Meanwhile in reality, the Maori people is a much more complex group as is with every other culture.
This concept of idealizing them as a "Noble Savage" type of culture tends to brush off a lot of the problems that are affecting the Maori people today. Which is poverty, obesity, prejudice, etc. Where we create this unrealistic high standard that we believe the Maori people are. But in reality, they deal with the same problems as everyone else does. But this idealization of their culture overshadows the actual issues that are affecting them atm.
Though one thing i can critique about this article is I don't think what Momoa did was malicious by any means. It's due to the fact he was probably ignorant or didn't exactly have an understanding of what the Haka actually is. And that goes with my point above in how Momoa believed that Haka was some type of Warrior Ritual. Meanwhile the Haka itself is used for a wide range of activities among the Maori as a means of celebration and Ceremony.
From Marriages
https://youtu.be/QUbx-AcDgXo
Farewell Ceremonies.
https://youtu.be/Wz7DzheCeuQ
Sport Events.
https://youtu.be/604o4vuEDoY
To Funerals.
https://youtu.be/M6Qtc_zlGhc
Like the Article isn't going. "DON'T DO THE HAKA". Its pretty much saying. "If you do the Haka, at least understand what it is."
the "real harm" this article talks about is Jason Momoa making a slightly questionable post. I'd hardly call that "real harm".
If you actually read it. What she meant is Jason Momoa is unknowingly "Dumbing Down" the Haka as some stereotypical warrior ritual. Meanwhile its much more complex than that and is extremely sacred among the Maori.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haka#Cultural_impact
Holy fuck, that first thumbnail looks shockingly like some of Postal's old avatars.
Im of Japanese descent and people on this forum make dumb seppuku jokes and kamikaze jokes all time. I find it odd that you guys are okay with that but so outraged at Jason Momoa slightly misinterpreting a traditional moari ritual.
Either we allow humour around these things or we don’t.
There really cant be a “well this culture deserves to be saved because” if anyone hopes to not be a hypocrite about it.
So idk why someone would dumb you, your point is valid
What's so wrong about that?
have we really come to the point where we dismiss entire articles purely because it uses a simple word, that just happens to be used a lot by some internet group you don't like?
I guess he finds the usage of the word problematic to be problematic?
I'm convinced that i was one of the few who actually read the damn thing.
Well then. I guess when the Maori visit Hawaii for another cultural exchange I'll have to tell them we can't do the hakka, and they can't do the war hulu. Guess all this was racist, and not us celebrating aspects of eachothers cultures where we have overlap.
On the topic of Hawaii, can we talk about Hawaii is a pretty damn good example of how a group of people can overcome the shadow of horrible colonialism (thanks dole) and join with a bunch of other
cultures to create the rather unique mixture of Native Hawaiian, Japanese, Chinese, and American culture that modern Hawaii is? Its a great example of how cultures blending and taking aspects from
one another isn't necessarily a bad thing (especially when you consider how fucking good Hawaiian food is).
This isn't what the article is about
It's not about "You can't do X because it's from another culture" it's about having proper respect and understanding for the cultures that you borrow from, especially if they've been or continue to be oppressed
The article is essentially a hit piece against Jason Momoa. If the goal of the author was to teach an understanding of this specific ritual then she would have actually outlined the true significance of the
ritual. The rest of the article makes vague allusions to another lecture and how literally all attempts to reach an understanding of their culture (even by modern researchers) somehow perpetuates the
apparent stereotype of the Maori being a warlike people
"In this lecture, Moana, in his calm, factual, and grippingly clear
manner, lays out the means by which we as Māori have come to be cast as
violent brutes. First by explorers, and then by anthropologists and
researchers, and then by media."
Shit like two paragraphs are devoted to insinuating that Jason Momoa wants to perpetuate violence against women
Now, I have to say here that I think it’s troubling that anything would “make” someone feel like committing rape.
Plenty has been written already about the rape scenes in Game of Thrones and rape jokes that Momoa has made about them.
have seen instances when Jason Momoa has spoken with vulnerability and respect for women. But that has been severely undermined by him misaligning haka with rape
That said, it would be timely, and meaningful, for Mamoa to retract his statements about haka making him feel like committing rape, and instead make a commitment to helping to dismantle
misogynistic colonial representations of indigenous peoples
Then she makes vague allusions to cultural appropriation causing misogyny (and transphobia???) without anything to actually support that statement
What I am concerned about is the hypermasculinity being placed around our culture, through Hollywood, and at the hands of Polynesian men.
It harms our whānau who do not neatly fit into colonial gender binaries of how a man or a woman should be
and instead make a commitment to helping to dismantle misogynistic colonial representations of indigenous peoples.
She offers no solutions, no advice, no attempt at actually helping against the evils of colonialism or cultural appropriation. This article is a farsicle hit piece designed to paint Jason Momoa as a rapist (or at least someone who wants to rape someone)
As someone who has family that has had to deal with colonialism and someone born of multiple cultures horrible damaged by the colonial powers (Specifically the Philippines and Vietnam) I find this
article to be insulting to people who deal with the shadow of colonialism, and to those who face cultural appropriation. It uses the guise of cultural appropriation to make a hit piece on some dude while
not actually helping anything.
absolutely nothing wrong with getting the adrenaline and testosterone pumping and feeling like a warrior
Journalism really has gone downhill.
It's literally "This will generate clicks and outrage, and people will believe the arguments put forth without a whole lot of critical thinking".
I don't think any culture should be oppressed or abused or mocked, but if any cultures can be, then all cultures should be treated equally with the same amount of seriousness, and levity. I don't know why some cultures would be special and exempt from general cultural change and growth.
Again, nothing wrong with that. But her point in the Article was the dumbing down of Haka as some stereotypical warrior ritual. Meanwhile its a sacred ceremonial ritual done done for a multitude of major events and ceremonies of the Maori people. Its one of the few things that they have to keep their culture alive.
Guess in Layman's terms. Imagine you and your buddies made a really well made joke. Then you show off your joke. Everyone likes it, but then some people go. "Hey, i want to make my own version of that joke except more dumbed down and less funny". Then that guy spreads around that joke way more than you or your buddies did. So then everyone else believes the joke you made was the dumbed down version of it. Then when people get sick and tired of the dumbed down version. They get mad at your and buddies.
Or the TL;DR answer would be like Memetic Mutation.
I wouldn't exactly call it enraged. I don't think anyone here is mad at this. Its more of "Well, he should've known better". I hold no ill towards him, though i would prefer he'd at least understand what it is. Also its nice sign of respect if you understand the ritual anyways.
I agree with that. But some cultures are more under threat of becoming non-existent or being transformed into dumbed down/commercialized forms of what they originally were to begin with. The smart way imo is, if you want to experience or do something related to whatever culture. Thats fine, but you should at least understand what exactly it is. Mostly to avoid it from becoming Dumbed down due to Memetic Mutation.
Article aside, Haka seems so cathartic and adrenaline pumping. Something I really admire the Maori of having and keeping alive, while mourning that I will never take part of one.
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