Even if Labour wins snap election, mad lad wants Brexit anyway - Polidicks

Corbyn But asked if he could imagine a referendum emerging as a solution if it becomes clear that parliament is deadlocked – as the work and pensions secretary, Amber Rudd, mooted this week – he said: “I think we should vote down this deal; we should then go back to the EU with a discussion about a customs union.” Corbyn I like you and all but did you not pay attention the part where EU has us by the balls and doesn't want to renegotiate?

He knows as a political leader of a sizeable party you can't simply ignore the vote, half of the electorate.

Yeah you shouldn't ignore remainers, they make up half the country

Boilrig, I am politely telling you this you on behalf of everyone: go away. And I'll remind you once again: The vote was non-binding. There was intense misinformation coming from both parties, but more so from Leave. The Cambridge Analytica scandal had serious ties with the Leave campaign. Theresa May, nor any of the Tories, or anyone for that matter, have not once met any of the promises they made for the populace. The combination of corruption and political gymnastics in the past two weeks. The constant warning coming from every direction and experts, including business, economy, environment - which a small island like ours depends much on. The Tories in general cutting social services, including police, NHS, firemen, welfare, mental support, child support - while pulling money out of nowhere for DUP (1bn) and to prepare for No Deal (4bn).

ya but 1.8% less than half wanted to stay in the EU, so take the guys who want to avoid a no deal brexit and add the guys who want nothing to do with brexit and you've got a huge majority.

Make your point but don't behave like a psychopath.

Then take the people who will be pissed over the government ignoring a key and essentially binding referendum, and you are back to square one.

"Essentially binding" Uhh?

It was presented to the people as binding, that the government would implement the decision in both leaflets and in speeches by the prime minister. So while not legally binding, it is essentially binding given the circumstances of how it was presented. If they wanted it to be purely advisory, they would've made that clear.

Feels before reals.

This is what is, in common parlance, known as 'misleading' and a major driving force of why people are calling for a second referendum

It felt binding so it is binding - Boilrig 2018

There is actually polling evidence to suggest that Labour's best electoral option is to back a second referendum and that supporting Brexit could cost them millions of voters https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/165/966af348-96e9-457f-b0bc-776679c1307c/Screenshot_20181222-030957__01.jpg Article and source

Corbyn is anti-eu. He is pro-brexit and has been so this shouldn't really be a surprise.

Yeah, Corbyn has always been Anti-EU, I don't get why people are shocked by this.

It baffles me that with such serious misinformation campaigns, the high courts don't freeze the whole voting process or launch an investigation. Like I don't get the US and UK politics. Shit that is pretty fucking clearly illegal isn't stopped or upheld by the rule of law.

Just because it's a pretty dumb move politically. Labour would stand to benefit a lot politically by making themselves the remain party, and in fact that's exactly what the party was doing and making gains on during the initial referendum mess. I get that Jerry himself is a Euroskeptic, but he's letting his own personal views, which clearly contradict the views of his constituents, hurt the party.

Both polling predictions are just look plain bad regardless if Labor supporting semi-radical Pro-Europeanist views, will sadly both these results is still supporting faux Eurosceptic Conservatives either way.

This is an unwinnable situation. The primary issue was reducing such an enormous and politically complex idea as our relationship to the EU with terms as simple as 'Remain' and 'Leave'. To say that any deal (or none) is 'the democratic will of the people' because 52% voted to Leave is like saying that, if 52% had voted Remain, adopting the Euro and entering the Schengen zone is 'the democratic will of the people'. People can argue semantics about what people who voted to Remain or Leave 'voted for', but the actual fact is that 48% ticked a box that said 'Remain', and 52% ticked a box that said 'Leave'. It's clear that the current deal is going to lead to far more negatives than positives (hence why the Government hasn't let Parliament vote on it), and no deal would be a short-term catastrophe beyond the Great Recession with far-reaching long-term consequences. It's clear that either of the primary Leave options we've got right now are terrible. Simultaneously, Parliament saying 'let's have another referendum' would be a political nightmare. For one thing, how would you ask the question? Would it be a straight-up retread of 2016, just 'Remain' and 'Leave'? Because if so, and if Leave then wins (which is absolutely not a possibility any politician wants to exclude this time), you've not answered anything. It's all the same issues as before. So you could split it into three options, perhaps. 'Remain', 'Leave with the PM's current deal', and 'Leave with no deal'. But then the options on one side are split. You could potentially balance it out with 'Remain for now by revoking Article 50 whilst renegotiating with the EU and planning to Leave later', but then that's an extremely specific option that will primarily serve to further split the Leave vote - not to mention the problems that might arise if the collective Leave options win by a plurality but the Remain option has the largest amount of votes. There is absolutely no way that any politician, even the Conservatives with their inexplicable ability to remain standing regardless of the impact of their policies, can satisfy everybody, or most, or even many. Corbyn, as an Opposition Leader who has been ready to form a Government for months, is arguably even more strangled, because he has to provide a cohesive and bold opposing policy to the Government's nebulous mess that nevertheless avoids alienating Leave or Remain voters as well as trying to pick up more voters from other parties (or else a General Election would just be another Conservative victory). tl;dr: Good job Cameron, you mucked this one up fantastically.

Vote of no confidence in Corybn please

I support the EU because it's objectively an effective way to enhance our economy, improve our society, and give us greater influence in the world through cooperation with our allies, and if that means I'm not a True Socialist then I'm okay with that

Fuckinn hell what a mess. Personally I still can’t see how brexit would happen if ‘labour won a snap election’, which they only could with the parliamentary support of the other opposition parties. The official party line is that no deal will not be an option - so how exactly would brexit happen? If May’s deal gets voted down it’s no deal or no brexit. This just seems like posturing in the wrong direction. If you wanted to keep your leave voters on side it was clearly better to stay quiet. Way to shoot yourself in the foot I guess.

Looks like the Lob Dems are our best hope for No-Brexit now. Shit.

Oh, so you get your information from a debate in which Sargon participated. That explains a whole lot. https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-32810887

I think this mess won't end until they're 24 hours away from a guaranteed no-deal Brexit. They'll probably vote to cancel it out of fear at that point.

Sounds like you guys are fucked TBH.

You can't have Sargon debate anything because he doesn't read and isn't interested in critical thought. With this post you've shown how you know literally nothing.

To give him the benefit of the doubt: just because Sargon is an illiterate moron doesn't mean his debates are without merit, often the person he's debating against, like Destiny or Dr. Winters, make some very good arguments.

The EU being too neoliberal is, I think, a legitimate complaint, but that doesn't make leaving a good option there's a sort of arrogance to this whole ordeal, with leavers believing that Britain is somehow exceptional

Not all leftists are liberals, but all liberals are leftists since liberalism is by definition moderate leftism.