Trump call with Turkiey's Erdogan led to US pullout from Syria
30 replies, posted
https://apnews.com/ec2ed217357048ff998225a31534df12
WASHINGTON (AP) — President Donald Trump’s decision to withdraw American troops from Syria was made hastily, without consulting his national security team or allies, and over
strong objections from virtually everyone involved in the fight against the Islamic State group, according to U.S. and Turkish officials.
Trump stunned his Cabinet, lawmakers and much of the world with the move by rejecting the advice of his top aides and agreeing to a withdrawal in a phone call with Turkish President
Recep Tayyip Erdogan last week, two U.S. officials and a Turkish official briefed on the matter told The Associated Press.
The Dec. 14 call, described by officials who were not authorized to discuss the decision-making process publicly and spoke on condition of anonymity, provides insight into a
consequential Trump decision that prompted the resignation of widely respected Defense Secretary Jim Mattis. It also set off a frantic, four-day scramble to convince the president
either to reverse or delay the decision.
The Dec. 14 call came a day after Secretary of State Mike Pompeo and his Turkish counterpart Mevlut Cavusoglu agreed to have the two presidents discuss Erdogan’s threats to
launch a military operation against U.S.-backed Kurdish rebels in northeast Syria, where American forces are based. The NSC then set up the call.
Pompeo, Mattis and other members of the national security team prepared a list of talking points for Trump to tell Erdogan to back off, the officials said. But the officials said Trump,
who had previously accepted such advice and convinced the Turkish leader not to attack the Kurds and put U.S. troops at risk, ignored the script. Instead, the president sided with
Erdogan.
On Monday, Bolton, Mattis and Pompeo met at the White House to try to plot a middle course. But they were told by outgoing chief of staff John Kelly and his soon-to-be successor
Mick Mulvaney that Trump was determined to pull out and was not to be delayed or denied, according to the officials. The trio met again on Tuesday morning to try to salvage things,
but were again rebuffed, the officials said.
Fuck Erdogan. This move is just another in a long line of the US standing by oppressive dictators for supposed strategic gains.
Of course he's going to side with Erdogan. Remember when his body guards were just kicking our citizens in the face on the damn lawn of the capitol? What happened? We didn't do anything. If anything Trump sided with Erdogan THEN, too
Of course we have to suck up to Turkey, otherwise they'll go to Russia.
Because now that we've shown, due to sheer incompetence of the Republicans, that we cannot actually defend ourselves these small shit nations that know we need them are going to start pulling all they can. And our fucking President's backbone is currently misplaced at the crime scene of the murder of our age old Allies trust.
Erdogan is not a dictator. Authoritarian yes, but not to that point either.
Pompeo, Mattis and other members of the national security team prepared a list of talking points for Trump to tell Erdogan to back off, the officials said. But the officials said Trump,
who had previously accepted such advice and convinced the Turkish leader not to attack the Kurds and put U.S. troops at risk, ignored the script. Instead, the president sided with
Erdogan.
Why even bother trying to advise Trump at this point? He's just gonna nod, go 'mhm' and ignore everything you said.
That's why Mattis resigned.
Dude what is with your raging boner for Turkey? You literally tried to justify them saying that they wanted to commit fucking genocide.
What the fuck, where the fuck did the second part came from?!
Yes, to that point.
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/133737/520e3a59-4d96-4364-9a9e-c1b340998da0/image.png
Also, sidenote: You have still not backed your claims in the other thread where you promised that you would. As I stated in that thread, I am holding you to do so.
I'm getting to it, today's real life errands got priority first.
Turkey is really cashing in on their Khashoggi death intel.
First extradition of Gullen, now withdraw from Syria. What else will Turkey ask for in return?
Trump has legitimately been a dissapointment even to me, and I hated him from the start
I was ignorant and thought, well, even if he's a fuckhead who's going to prioritize business over social programs or climate at least he'll:
1) Strengthen America's economy (I can't even remember why I thought this)
2) Be a strong man leader (again, what was I thinking)
Trump reminds me of a boy named Tim that I met in sixth grade. Until the Sixth grade, I had it in my head that every person had some good quality about them. Maybe they weren't perfect, no one was, but at least they would have either beauty, intelligence, or kindness. I thought everyone had at least one of those going for them. Tim proved me wrong. He was mean, ugly, and fucking dumb. And Trump is the biggest Tim I've ever seen.
"Mr. President, you really should pull out of Syria! Your people are tired of this constant war. Plus, the ISIS is already beaten and you can leave the Kurds to us. We'll deal with them swifly. No worries. I am sure your ratings will get a well-deserved boost after pulling your troops out of the region!"
-"I like you. I like people like you, Erdy. You can always tell a good person just by looking at them and hearing them speak. That's why people think I'm so good - why I'm so great. In fact, I don't care about them ragheads. Not my problem. I am too busy making America great again. Have you seen the election turn out? Have you seen how many people voted for me? Tremendous turnout. Tremendous..."
"What about Syria, Mr. President?"
-"...Ah, fuck it. All I heard were the words pulling out and rating boost. That's all I needed to hear. I am great at both."
Is this how it went?
Gullen is not getting extradicated, no matter how much Trump nor Erdogan want that. Turkey simply has no proper justification to get him and US even under Trump ain't gonna do that just because Erdogan on occasion strokes Trump's ego. And with potential death penalty being back in Turkey( Erdogan promised it after last year referendum that gave him more power, he has yet to even mention that since) it only made it even less likely for Gullen to be extradited back to Turkey.
Croatsky's always been like this. He's Turkey's RAYHALO.
He's certainly not doing himself good service by promising to deliver sources, saying he'll do it the next day, and then on the next day starts more arguments while saying 'i'm too busy with errands right now to source my previous claims'. Sounds more like he didn't have real sources and is stalling for time to try and 'find' sources to back himself up with.
Actually I am doing it, just started with different thread's post first.
Turkey’s Vote Makes Erdoğan Effectively a Dictator | The New Yor..
On Sunday, Erdoğan declared himself the winner of a nationwide referendum that all but brings Turkish democracy to an end. The vast new powers granted to Erdoğan—wide control over the judiciary, broad powers to make law by decree, the abolition of the office of the Prime Minister and of Turkey’s parliamentary system—effectively make him a dictator. Under the new rules, Erdoğan will be able to run for two more five-year terms, giving him potentially another decade in power, at least. With a vote by the now truncated parliament, he would be able to run for yet another term, one that would end in 2034. By then, he’ll be an old man.
The voting took place in a government-created atmosphere of violence, intimidation, and fear. Turks campaigning against the referendum were attacked and even shot at. For much of the past year, Erdoğan’s government has been working to stamp out what remained of the democratic opposition to his rule. Since July, some forty thousand people have been detained, including a hundred and fifty journalists. A hundred thousand government employees have been fired, and a hundred and seventy-nine television stations, newspapers, and other media outlets have been closed. Many opposition leaders are in jail. That’s not an environment conducive to asking a populace what it wants.
You know who else ordered a 'referendum' on the granting of further powers and ensured his victory through threats, intimidation, stomping on opponents, and reluctant allying? Adolf Hitler.
So if the President of the United States goes rogue and sides with a foreign power over his own military chiefs and national security team, thereby giving aid and comfort to an enemy (ISIS) with whom the United States is engaged in a declared military conflict, does that count as treason?
Only if Congress decides it is.
Trump stunned his Cabinet, lawmakers and much of the world with the move by rejecting the advice of his top aides and agreeing to a withdrawal in a phone call with Turkish President
Recep Tayyip Erdogan last week, two U.S. officials and a Turkish official briefed on the matter told The Associated Press.
Pompeo, Mattis and other members of the national security team prepared a list of talking points for Trump to tell Erdogan to back off, the officials said. But the officials said Trump,
who had previously accepted such advice and convinced the Turkish leader not to attack the Kurds and put U.S. troops at risk, ignored the script. Instead, the president sided with
Erdogan.
On Monday, Bolton, Mattis and Pompeo met at the White House to try to plot a middle course. But they were told by outgoing chief of staff John Kelly and his soon-to-be successor
Mick Mulvaney that Trump was determined to pull out and was not to be delayed or denied, according to the officials. The trio met again on Tuesday morning to try to salvage things,
but were again rebuffed, the officials said.
Trump probably gets along better with these goofy dictators because (apart from the strongman thing) they're free to enable him and indulge whatever dumbfuck ideas he coughs up. His advisers still have a responsibility to make sure the country doesn't implode, but 90% of the job is probably convincing him of things he doesn't want to hear.
The Syrian intervention is illegal, and what you call a "declared military conflict" against ISIS has not been voted on by Congress. If we can invade unilaterally, we can withdraw unilaterally. That being said, I don't approve of the way Trump is handling this because he's leaving the Kurds out to dry. If we're going to withdraw there's needs to be some form of diplomatic pressure put on Erdogan so he doesn't try anything against them.
The wording of both of those tweets mirrors some of the wording people use to argue against accepting refugees, putting the responsibility on nations not more responsible for a crisis but those who happen to be geographically closer. I wonder how much of the Syria/Afghanistan decision making comes from someone like Stephen Miller.
Turkey free to invade Syria to "eradicate" ISIS sounds like a blank check for Kurdish ethnic cleansing.
And Saudi Arabia funding Syrian's rebuilding sounds really off when Assad is an ally of Iran.
Seth Abramson thinks is so Saudi Arabia can launder money through Syria to pay Russia
Man, I remember watching a doc about how much the Kurds like the U.S, and we're just leaving them to die.
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