• UK Foreign Office orders global review into persecution of Christians
    17 replies, posted
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/dec/26/jeremy-hunt-orders-global-review-into-persecution-of-christians The foreign secretary, Jeremy Hunt, has ordered an independent, global review into the persecution of Christians of all nationalities amid claims that not enough is being done to defend the rights of nearly 200 million Christians at risk of persecution today. Hunt believes that growing persecution of Christians in some countries is often a symbol of wider persecution. Christian groups claim as many as 3,000 Christians were killed in 2018, a doubling of last year’s figure. An annual survey of the countries where Christian persecution is greatest undertaken by Open Doors put North Korea at the top of the list, ahead of Afghanistan, Somalia, Sudan and Pakistan. Iraq, Yemen, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Egypt, Nigeria, Libya and India – all countries in which the UK claims or seeks diplomatic influence – are placed in the top 20, underlining how sensitive the inquiry may prove, if it is not to cause offence.
You can joke about "oh noes the poor, persecuted Christians" all you want, but this investigation is clearly much more focused on countries that legitimately persecute Christians. The recent news of China banning Christian- and Christmas-related iconography should be a warning. China might start putting them in concentration camps, like they do with Muslims, and this isn't a unique situation across the world. There are plenty of places that systematically oppress and suppress those of Christian faith. Particularly note: This should be indicating to you that this has little to nothing to do with countries like the UK and US.
Are you talking to me specifically, or to just a general audience? Because as far as I recall, I've never claimed that Christians in the UK and US were persecuted at all, let alone heavily.
Oh, no, I'm not talking to you at all. I want to pre-emptively shut down anybody who thinks that Christians can't be oppressed just because they disproportionately hold dominant positions and act as the oppressors themselves in Western states today.
Feels a bit hollow simply due to them not even mentioning PR China. Also Iraq and Afghanistan mostly only count because of ISIS and the Taliban, not the actual governments.
The study isn't "governments persecuting", it's just general persecution.
I feel like you'd have to be a moron who thinks the west is the entire world to actually think Christians can't be oppressed.
Well 5 people apparently think that, based on the Baby ratings...
Christians are one of the largest religious groups and also one of the most persecuted. In the west Christians are being pushed aside in favour of growing other religions, even to the extend of a social stigma around it, in islamic countries they are highly oppressed, treated as 2nd class citizens without equal rights and unfair taxes, but people pretend this is not a thing. The west is founded on Christianity. Christianity helped give birth to democracy and that is bring pushed aside as foreign dominating influences such as China and the rich islamic countries seek to undermine both Christianity and democracy. People don't understand that democracy is a western concept and is accepted by countries with conflicting cultural and religious beliefs.
Er, what? Democracy was practiced by the Greeks and Romans long before Christ walked the earth
Yea both them were Greco-Roman pagans before eventually converting [either by forced or not] to Christianity.
I'm fucking dying after reading this. Just to list off the things you got incorrect here. The democracy you're talking about originated in Greece and was used by other cultures long before Christianity began to exist. The religions that existed when Democracy was created was the Hellenic religions, and the other "Pagan" religions that existed during the time. Democracy isn't exactly a "Western" concept. There has been countless records and evidence of "Proto-democracy" cultures and forms of democracies that existed in Mesopotamia, the Indian Subcontinent, and countless others before the formation of Athenian Democracy. Also even considering Democracy "Western" is fucking hilarious. Given how its existence was threatened countless times and curbstomped by other "Western" cultures of those time periods. Even after the decline of Democratic governments during the Dark Ages. Hell when Democratic governments began to take hold in Europe during the 17th-18th Century. All the other non-democratic "Western" countries wanted to annihilate them. Viewing the existence of a Democratic government as a threat to the Monarch governments that existed during the time. "The West was Founded on Christianity". Mate, Athenian Democracy formed before Christianity, the Roman Republic and Roman Empire existed at their height before Christianity took hold, and most of the technological advancement during the Classical age occurred before Christianity existed. In fact, when Christianity took hold. WE WENT INTO THE DARK AGES There has been countless times throughout European history where Christianity had been the major cause of Stagnation when it came to cultural and Technological development, as was with every other religion at the time that were afraid of Change. And given the nature of Christianity, any change in Christian teachings, doctrine, or interpretations often led to the formation of a new Sect or break off from the mainstream form of Christianity. One of these led to the Thirty Years War, one of the most devastating wars in European History. A war that left most of the Holy Roman Empire devastated, entire regions depopulated, and around 8,000,000 dead. And another thing to note. When Democracy began to return to Europe. Most of the Church was against the concept of Democracy, and most of the time supported the Monarchies that attempted to stomp them out. A famous example was when Napoleon was crowned as Emperor, he took the crown away from the Pope and crowned himself. As a sign to show that he was crowned by his own merits and the will of the people. Not by God. Throughout most of the middle ages and the existence of Monarchies, often than not they considered themselves to be absolute rulers due to being "Crowned by God".
I just want to point out that the "dark ages" is a term created to disparage the time after the Roman collapsed by scholars in the 14th century who believed in 'lightness and darkness' in history as a means of describing how well documented the eras were. The time period after the fall of the Roman Empire is known as the Early Middle Ages and actually saw a great deal of advancement in construction, chemistry (then called alchemy), and mechanical engineering. It was also Christian scholars who kept the records in a time when the masses couldn't read or write. This historical meme of the 'dark ages' where people were perpetually covered in shit and no one could take more than two steps without fucking a pig is a joke. The time when siege equipment was developed, iron and steel working were honed, and combat on horseback became the norm sure was on where nothing happened.
If we really want to get specific. When i meant Dark ages, i usually meant the period of stagnation of technological development, counterurbanization, the migrations of the "Barbaric" peoples in Europe, and etc. Cause considering during that time period, there were pockets of civilization that still flourished in terms of technological development and population growth. The Big one being the Byzantine Empire. Along with the Muslim Caliphs that exploded in the Middle East and what became the Golden Age of Islam. So if Agent48 was correct, there would've never been a "Dark Ages" and technological advancement would've occurred normally. But it didn't. I imagine the same shit would've happened with every other religion was thrown into the same seat during that time. But agent48 believes that Christianity somehow would've bailed them out of it.
I agree with the post overall, but there's a few nitpicks. 1: Christian Dark Ages Myth This myth is pretty common in popular culture, but it's wrong, through and through. Christianity wasn't some evil religion that stagnated western development, in fact, a lot of churches fostered intellectual and technological developments. A famous example being Roger Bacon, a 13th century English monk who pioneered study of prisms and mirrors. Another famous example being Bede, a 7th century English historian who pioneered historiography in the British Isles and is still cited to this day. As well as that, if I may indulge, Ireland's conversion to Christianity actually helped propel Irish economic and social development. Some of our greatest masterpieces were created in monasteries, including the Book of Kells and the Táin bo Cuailgne (which was reproduced by monks in Seangaeilge and Latin). We also educated nobles from England and France. Christianity also started a literary, theological and philosophical debate in Bernicia, Northumbria and Mercia, with a split between the Roman Catholic and Celtic Christian strains. 2: Schisms caused untold suffering because the Church was intolerant This is a broad statement that can't really be generalized like this. The Thirty Years War while yes, motivated by religion was snowballed into a gigantic war by political and cultural differences from the warring powers. As well, sects like Celtic Christianity and other unorthodox echelons of Christendom were tolerated and even encouraged in the Church. Sources: Early Christian Ireland by Stout (2017) The Archaeology of the Battle of Lützen by Schürger (2015) Anglo Saxon England by Stenton (1940s-1960s: compilation of his works)
weird how the US isn't on there given how persecuted christians feel having to share a country with gays.
Anyways, to get back on the topic of the Persecution thing. This is steadily going to get worse over the next few decades. Depending on what the state of the economies and stability are for these Countries. I will say Pope Francis becoming more welcoming to non-believers has been a plus. Especially with the recognizing of Climate Change as an immediate threat. Though, one thing that'll help Christianity in the long run is getting rid of radical branches or other denominations that play off of radicalizing their followers and use fearmongering to their advantage. The big one of course being American Evangelicalism. Especially since their rhetoric about other religions oftentimes plays into the fearmongering and propaganda created by these other countries as an excuse to persecute christian minorities. This advice sorta goes with every other religion that exists in the world atm. The devastating effects of Climate Change, economic turmoil due to an unpredictable market, growing inequality, and other threats that are bound to come in the next few decades will cause growing tensions and radicalization of the World's main religious groups. Since throughout history, periods of calamity oftentimes led to extreme Radicalization. The Black Death being the most famous example of this.
Yeah the Church opposed democracy at the time, but so did literally everyone else that was not in it as well, even more so then than today. Its not really fair to put that entirely on the Church.
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