• Scrap exponentially disrupts progression-balancing
    7 replies, posted
The solo perspective: It takes 50 + 1250 scrap to craft a tier-3 work bench plus 75 scrap for a research table = 1375 scrap to get started. It takes about an hour to gather 100-200 scrap from barrels and chests in active servers if you're lucky and are not getting robbed all the time. And so, assuming that we didn't get raided it takes a solo player about 6.88 to 13.75 hours of only grinding scrap.('grinding' is not a positive word.) Add to this the time spend building, defending, exploring, interacting and everything else Rust has to offer and we're about 13.75-27.5 game-hours into the game..to get started. Now that we have our tier-3 work bench its time to research stuff. Lets say that we got lucky and found ourselves a high external stone gate, a large furnace and a salvaged pick-axe - how convenient, Thats another 750 + 250 + 250 scrap = 1250 scrap or about 6 to 13 hours of grinding scrap plus an additional 6 to 13 of other gamecontent and so we're 26-54 hours into the game. and we got extra lucky and managed to sneak up on a fully geared raider and took his metal facemask, breastplate, ak, c4, launcher, the whole shebang, worth about 6000 scrap (30-60 hours scrap grinding to research, 60-120 hours gameplay) to be spend once our base is defended. Look at our fine stone gate and our large furnace but with no other means of protection - we are ripe for the picking and the raiding clan gets themselves a free full high end raider-set. The clan perspective: Lets say our clan has 10 people playing. It should take a lot less time to gather scrap because we can just rob everyone passing the road next to our fort, but lets ignore this because clans aren't spawned with automatic rifles either. So again the 1375 scrap takes a single person about 7 to 14 hours to gather but because we are with ten people it only takes 0.7 to 1.4 hours of gathering scrap from barrels and chests. Double this again for additional Rust content and we're 1.4 - 2.8 hours into the game, ready to get started. Now that we have our tier-3 work bench its time to research stuff. We also found ourselves a high external stone gate, a large furnace and a salvaged pick-axe which will take us 0.6 to 1.3 hours of gathering scrap to research and with the added other game-content we're 2 to 4.1 hours into the game. ----- The progression difference is already there because clans can have dedicated builders, weapon crafters etc. There is no need for the entire clan to know how to make an AK or a furnace, one person suffices. And adding high scrap prices on top of this worsens this problem exponentially. These progression-differences are stacking. A clan of 10 people finds 10 times as much items, 10 times as much scrap and requires 10 times less research-costs then a solo-player does. The way it is now works only fine if there are same sized-clanservers, or soloservers. In all other cases it disrupts progression - a lot. Of all possible fixes I think that reducing the costs 10-fold would be the easiest. It would allow solo-players to also progress without having to grind more then in a typical MMO. Some other options might be to make items personal like is the case with MMOs and Diablo-type games. - non-tradable items. Or to dump scrap completely. Or to dump researching completely.. They are all less favorable then lowering the costs, but 60-120 hours of gameplay for a somewhat defended base without goodies is simply to much. Especially when compared to the 2-4 hours of gameplay this would take a clan of 10 people.
This is the turning point for your Rust experience. Get good at farming and everyone steals everything from you OR become good at PvP If you choose the latter 1250 scrap is rather... Fast.
I'm either not following you or you are missing the point. This is not about my personal Rust experience. Its about progression and balancing. Currency, blueprints, research and such are for a large part used in MMOs and dungeon crawlers to determine the length of the game. However, Rust is no MMO and items can be 'duped' as well as benefit everyone in your clan. Currency does not have to be spend proportionally. As long as servers allow for teams of different sizes and solo players in the same map, this method as is implemented right now is unsuitable for this purpose. The game should either take 2-4 hours for relative safety, or 60-120 hours - but not both at the same time. Most servers don't wipe BP's after a mapwipe, demonstrating that the entire blueprint-system is optional, but removing it completely seems like overkill and would remove a lot of nice additions, so I think that lowering prices and perhaps adding more blueprints in lowergrade lootboxes would be the easiest way and already help a lot. Personal items could be another route. For example for cloths or weapons and perhaps even some resources, but I doubt clans would be happy about that (I mean - who in their right mind would want to be as handicapped and do as much work as a solo-player must to get by)
Listen I played enough modded servers that did exactly what you wanted, reducing costs tenfold, or multiplying what you get by each barrel. What happened: You suddenly have everything. In two days of farming, you had every single BP. What about the clans? Well in 6 hours almost every single one of them had every BP, know this because I was in one 10 man clan once. It doesn't fix progression, rather it speeds it up too much, so much if you're a solo in a populated server: You won't have a base in the next day. What I'm trying to say is: I have 600 hours, I play mostly solo, and my progression doesn't halt at all. In a week or two, with casual hours I can easily research everything, and some might say that I'm still slow. You're correct, currencies and whatnot are there to "determine" the length of a game, but in your equation you missed a HUGE variable, and missed the mark. I tried giving you the answer the first time but you simply slapped it to a corner, so I'm gonna give you a different one: Monuments. I went duo in launch site and got out of there with 700 scrap in one hour or less, fought some guys that had 200 more, also did Dome and recycled everything, in 3 hours tops I had 2k scrap, had I not fought I would have only gotten around 1.3k but also spared half an hour or something. IF you're unfamiliar with those numbers it's because you're doing it wrong :v
I think the high scrap costs is intentional to the game's design. The overwhelming burden on solo players is designed to encourage theft and looting. Lowering the scrap costs of things would also lower the stakes of the game, inherently lowing its fun. YOU COULD make a custom server where scrap is removed from the game, but I guarentee that the consequences will become apparent within the first hour or so. Personal Items, while an ok idea, also removes the whole theft and looting aspect of the game. At it's core, rust is a game about stealing in one way or another. Clans get formed out of convenience, but their large size also makes them prime targets for every other player and other clans. (bigger you are harder you fall sort of deal) I think your playstyle may not mesh well with the game's mechanics. I'd reccomend building trap bases to out smart those around you, since you don't seem to be too big on raiding and gunning. Playing solo, you could also play naked scavenger and try to pick up the droppings in a large gun fight and run away. Just a thought.
i kinda agree with your first paragraph, the ez-fix i proposed might indeed not lead to a more desirable situation. However as I pointed out in my earlier post. Most servers don't BP-wipe when they map-wipe, so this ultra-speed you mention already happens, it just takes an earlier game to get there. (I always loved the second match a lot more then the first and i only play solo and have >1000 ingame hours and joined during Legacy. I'm not a noob and I can hold my own very well, but that wasn't the point I was making- this is not a whine-post. Your second paragraph misses the point completely, just like your earlier post. And also.. its really incorrect. Atm I play the final days of [EU] Facepunch Staging. It is very low pop with only 15-50 online these days. I did a lot of daily airport, dome, harbor and that rocket location, including the puzzles. And no way this generates 700+ scrap.. total nonsense. It does generate more items to research though but thats it. Its simply not true (make a yt clip and prove it! ) ..but I'm getting of topic. Its not about what I personally can do to increase my income (i also have shops btw, and I raid and rob), but ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- its about the difference in result from when a solo-player (or a smaller clan for that matter) does the exact same thing as a larger clan. In that case - as I have pointed out - A clan of 10 progresses 30!!!!!!!! times faster then a solo-player, and Thats a problem!! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If it takes you 1 hour to collect that much scrap (100-200) , even being in a situation of not getting robbed....... you might want to look at your game play.
Thats not what I said. I said that in a populated server it would take that long. In a later message I also said that 700 scrap from monuments is BS and that i know from experience in a barely populated server. Those where 2 different unrelated claims. In populated servers the streets are dominated by clanforts, bolters. You'll pass miners, and scrapsearchers and you'll have to get back home again safely. Not all attempts will succeed and on average 100-200 scrap is realistic.
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