"I was a little naive" A LITTLE?!?
I can' even fathom why you would go live in a place where you are treated as nothing more than an item...
Teenagers are stupid and easily groomed by trusted positions of power and media. Yeah what she did was stupid as hell, but it's easily understandable how and why it happened. It's the reason we don't allow teachers and students to have romantic relationships, etc. Abuse of power is a hell of a thing. All you gotta do to get kids to do retarded shit is pay their favourite instagram celeb to tell them to. Shit, even functioning adults aren't immune to social engineering, AKA look at fucking Trump being elected in the US, etc etc.
While i feel for her, she made her own bed.
Woops, turns out joining a death cult is a bad idea. Whodathunk it.
Well say no, it's simple. You don't want to encourage his sort of thing
I don't get it though.
Maybe I've always been sane and enough rational to make good enough decisions in regards to following things like, I don't know stuff like this I guess, but I honestly don't see how kids could fall for this shit.
Yes yes, we got Trump in a place of immense power and other shocking shenanigans going on around the world because of people who are too stupid to not be manipulated. But how can anyone living in a place where they aren't oppressed and probably wouldn't have any serious anger towards anyone, think that joining a bunch of murderous lunatics that do completely fucked up shit is a good idea?
Let's not even go that far. You see the Pauls doing stupid shit on youtube, that is either cringey at its minimal levels, or just outright insane and shocking, deserving of a huge slap across the face. Why do kids find that even amusing for a start? Who looks at that and says "yeah thats a great idea, I should also do that."
It just feels like theres a huge lack of common sense. A lack of rationality.
Bye bye!
It can come down to a lot of factors. Maybe they didn't have a big social group. Maybe they were too sheltered. Maybe they weren't sheltered enough. You cant really boil it down to a single reason. The choices teenagers make are influenced by a lot of things and for some people, not all of course, but for some it feels like everything in your life happens when you're a teenager. Everyone has different forces pushing on them at different pressures and it can lead to some bizarre decisions.
Exile her, once a terrorist, always a terrorist.
"BUT SHE'S NOT A TERRORIST!"
If you willingly join a terrorist organization, you become a terrorist, end of discussion.
So is the age of mental independence 15 now? You can't have it both ways. Children do stupid shit sometimes since they lack the capacity to fully understand the situation.
This has been a thing forever, and it's honestly pretty psychologically complex, but I'll try to explain a bit as best I can. It's a form of rebellion, which everyone is subject to in some form in adolescence. Rebellion of course being literally anything like, refusing to do school work, accepting dangerous dares, rejecting common safety rules and equipment, "I don't wear a seatbelt because fuck that shit." etc etc. You could consider a lot of stupid youtubers like Jake Paul and shit to be rebel icons in the new media form. Kids who don't form good role models in their rebellious phase end up with shitty ones. I grew up in the generation of seeing guys like Bam Margera on TV, only like 10 years older than me and my peers on average, he was on TV and this huge rebellious success, same with all the other MTV rebels. I'd be amiss if I said that as a impoverished kid who grew up moving between two countries, having few good friends, shitty parents, etc wasn't making me the perfect target for that kind of shit. It takes a lot to not fall victim to being one of the probably 30-60+ kids I knew who were basically rebelling in the same way as the skater on TV was, taking lessons from his attitude, etc. I managed to find adults in my life who were cool, snowboarders, skaters, stuff I really resonated with as someone who's entire life revolved around those activities. But for kids who don't have that, for kids who don't go out and have supportive role models and people to give them constructive challenges in their life, it gets fucking grim with how fucking easy it is to lead them into horrid shit.
Basically I'm going to quote an article from psychology today here a few times because it's pretty spot on and tbh, I couldn't really say it much better.
"Rebellion causes the young person to depend self-definition and personal conduct on doing the opposite of what other people want."
That explains the core of why it can get so bad but what's the reason some kids don't rebel like this well, "... the antidote for rebellion is the true independence offered by creating and accepting a challenge - the young person deciding to do something hard with themselves for themselves in order to grow themselves. The teenager who finds a lot of challenges to engage with, and who has parents who support those challenges, doesn't need a lot of rebellion to transform or redefine him or herself in adolescence."
Helicopter/strict parenting worsens rebellion as well, it establishes the parents as yet another horrible authority to rebel against instead of as an authority who gives good, constructive reference and advice.
"What can parents do at this point? They must let the consequences of the young person's resistant choices play out and not interfere." Parents who are extremely strict are obviously going to become the target for rebellion by default, and parents who shelter their kid from their actions do nothing to let the child learn their lessons and end the rebellion. One of my old friends has been to rehab four times, bailed out of jail by his parents, still lives with them, he's a disgusting alcoholic NEET. And his parents literally enabled this by being strict helicopter parents. He grew up in a rich, complete, non turbulent family, and yet he turned out worse than me? Because while my parents did basically nothing to raise me, his parents actually did harm in their parenting.
And of course there's also different stages of rebellion based on age when it happens, etc.
So to answer your question, there isn't a huge lack of common sense or rationality, it's an issue with parenting and society in general in how we raise our kids.
They can keep her!
Even if she's able to get back, now you have the concern that they're a sleeper agent or at least a lone wolf in waiting. You'd have to dedicate intelligence resources to monitoring this person for years to determine whether or not they're still planning to kill your citizens. Or maybe (dare I imply) send them for reeducation to try and prevent them from acting out. But whatever set them off in the first place is still there and could set them off again in the future, especially if things don't pan out and they fall on hard times.
i totally agree that it's a difficult situation and that the german government is not obliged to take her back in
i just don't think that means eradicating the possibility from our minds that she's suffering and wants to leave
Theres a difference between doing the usual dumb shit kids do and going to another country to join a terrorist group
Mate, 15 is an age where you're more than mature enough to know that joining a terrorist organisation isn't a good idea.
The lack of understanding of grooming in this thread is astounding. If people that young are at fault for being groomed then you'd have to blame children for falling for other grooming practices as well.
A 15 year old is perfectly capable of knowing the consequences of an action like this. Travelling over 2000 miles to active war-zone isn't exactly a normal past time for the average child.
I'd argue there is a vast ocean of difference in the kind of person who gets groomed into having sex with an adult versus someone being convinced to join an international terrorist organization.
Okay, what about when she turned 16?
On her 17th birthday?
What about her 18th?
Oh, only now she's mentally competent enough to understand the mistakes she's made?
I don't feel sorry for her, the children brought into the world by her however, I do feel sorry for them.
Fuck off 15 is when you're old enough to realize that joining one of the most violent terror organizations in recent years (just to get even further brainwashed) is a pretty bad idea. This isn't your standard 15 year old stupid shit or rebellion, you're joining a fucking terrorist organization.
The stupid bitch can stay there
This isn't really a universal fact. There have been people her age, sometimes older, that have been pressured, manipulated, etc. into joining groups and lifestyles that are dangerous and self-destructive.
I don't know anything about the details of this specific situation but there's probably a lot more playing into her decisions that just simply "she's a dumb teenager." Not say say she isn't, but still.
Deja vu. Feel like I read this exact same article a few years ago. Same woman coming back into the spotlight again or is there just something wrong with german brains? (its definitely the latter)
For the people who say "She was 15 she knew what she was doing", the article seems to indicate she probably didn't. She moved to Syria two months after converting to Islam and three days after she got their she married her husband, an extremist who already had two other wives. I don't know about you guys but this doesn't seem like someone who is completely cognizant of the consequences of their actions. She also obviously isn't a terrorist or a fighter and says she was just a housewife who tended to the children and housecleaning. This isn't a dangerous person and should be returned to Germany, especially since it is at the request of Syrian Kurdish authorities.
I also wonder what the response would have been to the UK grooming scandals if someone had said the victims were "15 and knew what they were doing".
"YOU GUYS DON"T UNDERSTAND GROOMING"
Ya know, four years ago, ISIS was literally nearing it's peak in Iraq and Syria. They released numerous images and media of them abusing and shooting people. Burning them alive, etc,etc,etc.
She is from GERMANY
She had access to the Internet
She had access to news about ISIS
The Media reported on ISIS
She knew what she was doing. End of story, she didn't make a mistake, she didn't get mislead, she went off to be the war bride of an ISIS fighters.
Fun fact: The Wives of ISIS fighters often were given a lot of special treatment, take your pick.
Yeah. As well, at 15 your brain is far from being fully developed (doesn't really finish until like 24-25 anyway) so you don't really think through your actions the best, much more impulsive, etc...
Yeah just like all the other ISIS members who "realised" it was a bad idea to go the minute ISIS started losing horribly. They only regret it because they ultimately lost
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBNNlyI0Dn4
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