Armchair psychologist: the video. This guy is so certain he's got it all figured out that he can't see that he's doing the exact thing he's fighting against: putting a ton of different people in one bag of prejudices and calling it a massive conspiracy. He's saying that the alt-right, 4chan, 8chan, Pewdiepie, other prominent YouTubers and their subscribers and all of their edgy memes are all somehow responsible for this tragedy. And if someone doesn't fully believe it, then they're complicit! That's right, you better believe this guy or you're a part of the problem too!
Can we start being real now?
Clickbait and shock title to profit a tragedy, yikes
Maybe that I'm the only one but I'm basically hearing the same thing as this: "Stochastic terrorism is caused by Muslims who don't actively reject all values of Islam, and that leads to terrorism. A Muslim should therefore reject Islam entirely so as to prevent the spread of their faith, since that faith automatically condones acts against infidels, and causes some Muslims to climb up the pyramid of violence. And if you don't think all Muslims share responsibility for the acts of Muslim terrorists, then you're part of the problem!"
What I indentify with in this video is that it highlights how the rabbithole works. For me, it was the "Skeptic" and anti-sjw community that slowly introduced me to right wing talking points, and over time I found myself raving about sjws and college campuses and pronouns.
I came out of it, but I know some friends who havent, and have kekistan flags and such. But since its "Ironic" they can play it off without being challenged on their beliefs.
In my opinion, it's not the edgy memes. You have to be predisposed to believe them or not. I've always been into edgy memes but I've never been a racist.
Look at the guns of the Christchurch shooter and the historical references to victories against the Ottoman empire on it. You think that guy learned that kind of history on /pol/ or on Pewdiepie's channel? I think that for someone to start acting violent, to go over the edge (hence edgy memes), you need to be actively radicalized by people you know and trust.
That said, I want to hear your story, if you don't mind.
it's honestly a pretty good video about how people can defuse extremist statements like "death to all jews" by portraying them as jokes and it just rabbit holes from there. also good explanation of dogwhistles and other tactics they use to hide this stuff.
Everyone after the shooting: "These memes and white supremacists have to go, shut the sites down and remove their soap boxes"
*Video depicts someone you might like or relate with as one of the potential causes*
Everyone, still: "No, this is stupid!!! Fuck this!!!"
I think its very possible that he picked that up from /pol/ people use historical events like the battle of tours and the crusades in conversation there all the time, plus as someone interested in politics im sure he picked up those events that supported his beliefs. Ive even seen people in paradox game forums like crusader kings be crypto facists due to their exposure online + getting really into those games as crazy as it sounds.
My story is that I was an teenager who got really into atheism and also dark humor as a way to rebel against my parents and escape trauma, as well as other reasons, and the atheist community on youtube frequently crosses over with the anti-sjw crowd. I was also a pretty big gamer so I would get all up in arms from gamergate and things like it.
Eventually, as I entered later teenage years I just stopped admiring these youtubers like sargon of akkad because I saw him as getting worked up over nothing, I cant remember the exact video that did me in, but I just got the sense that he was making a mountain out of a molehill, and it got me to question what the motives of all these creators were.
However, I my friends were still the same edglelords who all coped with their depression by envoking shock humor and suicidal tendencies. Alot of these guys (well 2 I know for sure) watched the same content I did, and still do. Over the years I have seen them become more radical. One of them wears confederate stuff with pride now, and talks about the great replacement and "preserving cultures"
The other is also a facist and pretty sexist.
It sucks because I still really like hanging out with them sometimes, and as a socially awkward 18 year old who is coming out of a depressive slumber and trying to regain my old extroverted self I still need these guys, they are good friends of mine.
I try to argue with them whenever its brought up, but I still mostly steer clear.
Yes but wasn't it planned for months with many other people? I don't know if he is the only one who got caught.
That kinda was my point, anything can radicalize you. That's why I mentioned predisposition.
I'm glad you got out of it and I'm also glad you kept them as friends, so you can maybe try to change them or at least keep an eye on them.
You mentioned a trauma and coping though, so it's not something that grew on you for no reason. I feel that the first part of your story is one that many others share, but let us consider the question: does the alt-right spread because of websites like /pol/, or are there websites like /pol/ because of the alt-right? My point is that I think it's wrong to lay blame on everyone of those websites or all people who enjoy edgy memes and the like. Racist jokes were a thing long before the internet was invented. Does the internet contribute to the expansion of racist behaviors? Yes, I believe so, but in my opinion, edgy memes are a byproduct of racism, not the exact cause of it. Actual influencers like Sargon seem more like the cause to me.
People who go from edgy humor to radicalisation were radicals to begin with.
A fact people often forget is that after getting rejected from art college Hitler subscribed to pewdiepie and we all know what happened
so how exactly do you think people become radicalized in the first place?
how do people get introduced to radical ideology in your world?
I feel like if Pewdiepie wanted to he could come out and categorically reject radicalization. The fact that he cleared hiss Follows on Twitter tells me he is at least aware of it. Why not put out a statement?
And the point of the video is that people like Pewdiepie are the predecessors to people like Sargon.
You are saying the exact same thing this video is saying, and noticing the exact same patterns, you just don't recognize the base of the pyramid as being one level higher.
An interesting perspective to hold, considering we have confessionals from people who admit that they were falling down the anti-SJW rabbit-hole.
I don't really like the idea that certain subjects should be offlimits because they were involved, even if infinitesimally, in a tragic shooting. Sorta one of those "the shooter got what he wanted things" yknow?
Pewdiepie might be criminally unfunny but the sickness we see in our society runs far deeper than that. People are only drawn to radicalizing if they feel angry and ostracized from society, and he isn’t really doing that. Places like /pol/ where this kind of shit festers isn’t what’s radicalizing people, they’re a natural consequence of a society where emotional right wing authoritarianism, anti immigration, sexism, racism, and xenophobia is rampant and used as a scapegoat for people’s shitty lot in life. Pewdiepie, /pol/, 8chan, etc. are the symptoms, not the cause.
When I joke about globeheads and satanist NASA lies, the joke is "there are people so dumb that they actually believe this". The joke is built on the assumption that everyone I'm speaking to shares my understanding.
In reality, flat earth theory is a belief system. It's built on something. And my joke doesn't attack its foundation, it just points at it. For all the people who see how absurd it is, there are plenty of people who don't. What is a joke to me is an introduction to a dangerous belief system to them.
When people joke about the nig nogs and the happy merchant and derka derka jihadists, I'm sure a lot of them think it's funny because "haha, people actually think this is what the world is like". They're pointing at the beliefs "other races are subhuman" and "jews control the world" and "muslims are barbarians coming to rape the west" and assuming other people will laugh at them.
But how many people actually know that those beliefs are wrong? How many people are actually capable of arguing against them? 90%? 70%? 50%? If you don't know why the argument "if the earth is a globe then why does it look flat" is wrong, how is the joke any different from sincere rhetoric?
If you don't actually know how to argue against the belief "the holocaust was faked by the jews", is a joke about the holocaust being fake funny because of its absurdity, or because it points out an underlying truth we aren't supposed to acknowledge?
to put it another way
http://www.simbasible.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/0-1.png
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/58/Minstrel_PosterBillyVanWare_edit.jpg
people didn't think this was funny because it was ridiculous
they thought it was funny because they believed it reflected reality
if your joke doesn't point out why a belief is ridiculous
it's identical to an endorsement of that belief
No, the video says jokes are part of the problem. I don't believe so, and I think the people behind acts of terrorism and actual radicalizing agents must be very happy right now that we're blaming it on literal jokes instead of them. And they know that at the slightest mention of banning or discouraging these jokes, it'll give a lot more fuel to the radicalization fire.
Well, yes, they are happy. That's the entire point of people like Pewdiepie. They provide a pipeline to people like Sargon, who provides a pipeline to people like Molyneux, all with the added benefit of plausible deniability. You recognize Sargon as a radicalizing agent, but there are tons of people who don't, who believe that he is actually a moderate voice of reason.
I recently discovered the term "Irony Poisoning," which gave a name to how I've been describing places like /pol/ for a while now.
Sometimes I feel like some of the smoke & mirror elite scum-fucks just saw things like bronies and ED and thought "Damn, people really are this stupid. What if we used their ignorance and lack of self-awareness to our advantage?"
I can't believe people actually buy stupid theories like this. I have been watching his videos on a daily basis for the last couple of months because I really need some dumb meme humour to keep me sane after a killer workday; I have never heard of this Sargon, infact Ive literally not once seen any kind of politics with the exception of him commenting on youtube drama.
Pewdiepie is just some random guy who became mega-popular by chance and is now producing mediocre content to keep the cash flowing in. You can find him obnoxiously annoying and I really can see why people do, but all this alt-right shit is literally made up stuff. Its depressing how people seem unable to to form a fact-based opinion when all the facts are literally available as 10 minute youtube meme videos. Its not a gateway, its not radicalisation, its just shallow meme humour.
This is an absurd extrapolation of the point being made here. Saying that someone serves as a pipeline to further radicalizationn doesn't mean that literally 100% of the people who watch them are going to be radicalized. You realize this, surely?
Yes but what I aim to say is that absolutely 0 people can be drawn into anything by watching the videos. Seriously, this is some really bland and mild content. If you don't want kids to watch this then you might aswell ban the internet altogether. Seriously, the guy is 1 step away from introducing a cute cat video commentary series.
The consequences of your actions are not tied to your intentions. You can mean no harm and still do something that effects people in a bad way.
Pewdiepie could be christ reborn or hitler in disguise, it really doesn't matter at all when we're talking about the impact of what he says and does. Which could be nothing. I honestly couldn't tell you, I've maybe seen two videos from him in my life.
No if I called someone a nigger, even in the heat of the moment, I would absolutely be banned. PDP probably would get backlash if he said something risque, but it's not like it would hurt him. "taking backlash" is part of his brand now.
But maybe he is aware things are different this time, given the fact that he cleared his follows list, which had prominent islamophobic far-right/alt-right types on it.
I mean I guess if we are going to ignore the entire point of the video I'm not even sure why we are having this discussion. PDP exists outside of Youtube, and this 30 minute video spends no more than a few seconds talking about his Youtube presence.
Getting really mixed messages here because you seem to care quite a bit, going so far as to create strawmen of my argument to attack.
17:24
if pewdiepie and other youtube comedians
make it clear to their audiences that
racism is not okay and if they refuse to
platform racist ideologues on their
shows then their fans will be much less
likely to be drawn to more overt racists.
I'd be ok with this.
Didn't he already do this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ph8M_8sVOEA
One thing I've noticed is people have got it into their heads that they should double-down instead of trying to understand why their "jokes" don't come across as jokes, maybe because they think they'd be giving in to some leftist boogieman if they do, or just insecurity. (Though I'm aware some don't want to understand).
If you're going to tie Pewdiepie to far right radicalization; you'll have to include Joe Rogan.
No because the comments section is just talking about memes and laughing at his critics it has to be a sincere and real commitment.
In the video itself he mischaracterizes the criticism a bunch and doesn't really apologize.
If he did it for real we'd hear about "pewdiepie becoming a cuck" and stuff.
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