Congrats
You know that they partially have a point, right? The meat industry is a giant contributor to climate change.
Blocking roads isn't a fantastic idea, but it's about time we moved past the "lmao stupid vegans" phase.
Yeah, but that's the main issue. Start inconveniencing people trying too go about their day and instead of getting their attention to help your cause, you then turn them into someone who thinks "man fuck those vegan assholes, made me late for work"
Serious question; what else is there to do but inconvenience people when we face global catastrophe?
Serious question. Protests have stood the test of time as far as actually working. I don't really see an alternative.
I'm not saying that this is valid for the ~woo woo animals are alive too~ reason but the environmental factor is seriously going to fuck us and deserves protest imo
For one thing though, at least protesting for vegan isn't as bad as vaccination.
but that doesn't also give you a free pass for doing a twat act in public
You can say that any publicity is good publicity, because it gets people talking about it
but also, you can go "wow vegans here are cunts"
Except the few who are using the "it's about climate change" line are doing so as a smoke screen. This is purely driven by animal rights. If it wasn't they would be arguing for vegetarianism.
Yeah, but you could at least inconvenience the people contributing to it rather than some poor smucks trying to clock in at their 9-to-5 for a paycheck.
We all know deep down that eating meat isn't that nice, but the thing is we (at least many western countries) cannot instantly switch our diet to be without meat, cheese and milk. Supply and demand would collapse, and we'd be out of food for a long time until we get all the vegan products rolling. So I'm against all these militant vegan protests. Find a better cause to protest for. Peace in another country, less corruption, anything that actually helps people.
I wasn't aware that the average citizen of Melbourne was a vegetarian
Why do these people always look so different to the general public.
Also lol at the abattoir giving them three baby sheep to fuck off and let them continue, what the hell?
So, again, I can't fully support this because it wasn't primarily for environmental reasons, but your average schmuck is literally the person contributing to environmental-disaster level meat consumption.
I'm not sure how I feel about this. On the one hand we are faced with the complete destruction of all life on the planet, and meat consumption is a big part of the cause. On the other hand they inconvenienced some people during their protest so I guess they're bad people and I shouldn't listen to them.
It amazes me that people are aware that the meat industry is so disastrous to life, yet seem happy to have the rainforests cut down and every inch of land used to grow cheap meat as long as they still get their McDonalds and aren't ever inconvenienced or faced with the consequences.
Climate change will destroy life as WE know it, but life in general and indeed human life will survive in one form or another. Our civilization will collapse, our cities fall and our lights will go out. Then a few centuries later the biosphere will get right back up without us humans polluiting the place and will carry on as if we were never here with only some crumbled concrete and rebar to mark our presence. We are a mere blink of an eye compared to life on earth and to think of ourselves so highly that a threat to us of our own making will kill everything is rather hubristic of us.
That being said climated change will destroy human civilisation and send us back beyond the stone age. Also of note that humans are typically genetically wired to really like meat so going full vegan isn't happening overnight and being cunts during rush hour in a busy busy Australian city centre is a good way to get told to "rack off ya dags!"
You'd be better off trying to make tasty not-meat foods and get a market fad going that just sitting on an intersection yelling "MEAT BAD! GRRR MEAT!"
They aren't wrong, but it's frustrating to see people putting so much energy into believing that they can get humanity off of the meat. Or more specifically, expecting individuals to take responsibility for the damage caused by the meat industry and change their habits. It's just not going to happen, no matter how many intersections they block.
What we need is to get that fake-meat and other climate-friendly alternatives onto supermarket shelves, subsidized and heavily marketed.
Plenty of protests go ahead without fucking up everyone's day.
And nobody talks about those.
Why is it that in every thread about a somewhat high-profile protest, you've got a bunch of people who have no clue how efficient protests work arguing that they shouldn't bother the average Joe somehow? As if silently waving signs around on a sidewalk ever achieved anything of significance.
It's even worse when they blame protesters for workers not being paid or even being fired as a result, without even questioning the employer being able to punish you in such a way for factors outside of your control. If that's how it works in your country, you should be out in the streets as well, to demand proper worker's rights and protections.
Bonus points in this case since the average person does contribute to meat overconsumption. Stop trying to deny responsibility for something you share a large part of the blame for as a consumer. Even cutting your meat intake by half will be hugely beneficial to the environment and animal welfare. Heck, you could even cut it by 90% and remain perfectly healthy. There really is no excuse here.
Issue is, meat triggers that very strong dopamine response, pretty much everything in your biology is telling you that this is the good shit right here, even though you are right when someone tells you that no you can't have this nice thing you tend to get resistance.
It's a problem for sure but there isn't going to be a way to force people to change without pissing a large swathe of the population off probably to the point of riots and protest.
This is a global issue and needs a different solution to whats worked in the past, people want to eat meat and just telling them to stop very loudly won't cut it.
Yes they have a good point, but you cant just go and do these protests and expect things to change overnight. Something like this is a huge cultural shift and you cant force it upon people, you need to let them come to this conclusion themselves, and if they dont, well nevermind as they have free choice and we (most of us) live in free countries.
The people who currently won't bother looking into ways to cut down on meat consumption won't bother trying out fake meat or substitutes which taste worth than both real meat and vegetarian recipes. Fake/lab grown meat will take decades to taste like the real deal, let alone do so while staying financially competitive. It's a gimmick that most likely won't contribute meaningfully to solving the issue.
Plenty of posters here have dramatically reduced their meat consumption without reporting any withdrawal symptom. If anything, lots of people seem surprised at how easy it is to simply not eat meat for a couple meals. Putting meat in every meal is something we do out of habit, not a result of a physiological addiction.
Literally all we need is for more people to just try and reduce their consumption, through meatless weekdays for example, to help them realize that it's not as indispensable as they think. Sure, you'll have a few people who aren't cut for it, but most of those who aren't practicing intensive sports or have health issues don't need so much of it.
As for the prospect of people rioting because they're forced to eat less meat... You've got tons of government which continually fuck people over financially without them protesting in return and you think that taxing meat will result in riots? Doesn't seem likely at all to me.
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Now you don't have to worry about it : ^ )
This is true for a certain amount of meat consumption, but honestly, after massively reducing the amount of red meat I eat (and meat in general) I feel way better overall.
Nutrients are nutrients. It doesn't really matter where you get them.
I would wager a not insignificant sum of money that if you asked a thousand people in the EU/US would they rather eat 1000 calories of steak or 1000 calories of mixed nuts most would choose the former.
Don't get me wrong, I genuinely applaud your efforts to change and do your bit but sadly it's the layman you need to convince, not me or you.
Unfortunately average joe isn't facepunch, else we would all be eating less meat, driving less cars, shooting more guns and wearing more gas masks. Convincing the general public is very difficult and I honestly wouldn't know where to begin.
Like legit if you asked me, and call this a dumb idea but if you set up a food stand handing out free meat free foods along with some recipie cards you might get people to try it. People are like cornflour, the harder you push the harder they resist so I'd try a light touch and a free mushroom curry.
Why would they only be arguing for vegetarianism if it was for Climate Change? I mean, milk still comes from cows and cows are the primary reason that agriculture is such a large part of GHG forcing. I'm an omnivore, although I have tried to be vegetarian before, but veganism is definitely better for the planet than vegetarianism, though obviously any difference we can make to our diets towards reducing meat consumption will have some positive effects.
Chickens convert waste into protein.
That doesn't have anything to do with Climate Change. It would result in fewer GHGs if we were all vegan compared to us all being vegetarian.
I find some of your comments pretty funny, but when a discussion is occuring you do need to come up with at least one valid point arguing your position.
What, so you think letting food scraps rot in the name of veganism will reduce climate change? Do you not realise how much is wasted and that it requires energy to be made? That not leaving scraps to rot will reduce the amount of land that needs to be farmed?
How is chickens converting scrap into useful protein not a "valid point"? That's a mind-numbingly stupid statement.
Because you imply farming chickens are a net benefit on the environment, which is not true.
Look, you can eat meat if you want, but don't muddy the waters on the science here. These are the facts, reducing livestock agriculture and eating less meat have the following benefits:
- better for the environment
- less water use
- less methane and carbon emissions
- reduces impact on climate change
- reduces land clearing and deforestation
- better for our health
- less cruelty towards animals
Not to mention it's ultimately more economical and cheaper to cut out or reduce meat intake.
Make your own choices, but make sure you listen to what countless studies have already shown us to be true.
I think people here vastly overestimate the amount of greenhouse gasses that actually come from meat production. This report by the UN FAO shows that only 14.5% of emissions come from livestock production, and that's all kinds of animal agriculture including dairy, wool, eggs, draft power and other purposes, and so the amount actually caused by meat production is significantly lower than that. The amount of meat you eat really doesn't add all that much to climate change. You probably save more CO2 by walking to where you want to go than by eliminating any amount of meat from your diet. Livestock production is more of a problem of pollution and land distribution.
In actuality, if we want to reduce livestock production emissions, it's more of a problem of inefficiency and the kinds of animals we use. This research done by a worldwide collaboration of agricultural agencies shows that the majority of actual greenhouse gas emissions come from undeveloped or developing nations who do not have efficient meat industries set up, and feed their livestock grasses and other low quality food that produces high amounts of emissions. Additionally the report suggests that pork and poultry are actually the most efficient animals to produce, making up only 10% of global emissions but making up 3 times as much meat production as cattle, and they require much less food to produce. While reducing meat consumption overall would help, it'd be a lot better to try and help developing countries develop their agriculture industries, like we should be doing anyways because developing unforested land allows for more efficient carbon absorption, and switch to eating more pork and chicken rather than steak.
Truth is you can rest easy if you're a meat lover and don't want to be a vegetarian. You can still have meat every meal and not produce that many emissions by reducing your emissions in other parts of your life. Just consider eating more chicken and pork which are generally cheaper and better for you anyways, and maybe once in a while having a meatless meal. This whole talk of going meatless for a good portion of meals is ridiculous and is unnecessary.
Nobody here is saying that we should give up meat instead of cutting down on driving. Agriculture is still a pretty large piece of the puzzle and we should strive to reduce our impact when we can, especially due to how corporations are doing very little to help us. I do think you're underestimating the effects of meat consumption though. Without adding any statistics, it is also pretty vague to say that we can probably reduce CO2 more by walking instead of using transport, as that obviously depends significantly on where we live, what transportation we use and how far we have to go. I live near London and have only ever really gone to central London via train, so there's not much more I can do in that sense.
I don't know how you can say that 14.5% of GHG is 'insignificant'.
Pigs in many countries, including the US, are not even given space to turn around in their tiny pens. Look, I eat meat, but to argue that we're doing it humanely is clearly untrue. Pigs are pretty intelligent animals. Whilst our biological imperative is to pass on our genes, I'd like to think that you don't judge your worth by how many children you have spawned. Animals such as pigs, humans and cows do experience suffering, and I do think we should introduce some reforms on how agriculture is done to give many animals more space.
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