UK poised to embrace authoritarianism, warns Hansard Society
32 replies, posted
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/apr/08/uk-more-willing-embrace-authoritarianism-warn-hansard-audit-political-engagement
The study, compiled annually by the democracy charity, found that when people were asked whether “Britain needs a strong ruler willing to break the rules”, 54% agreed and only 23% said no.
In all, 42% of respondents agreed with the idea that many national problems could be dealt with more effectively “if the government didn’t have to worry so much about votes in parliament”.
we're watching the final whimper of a dying (dead) empire here. english exceptionalism folding in on itself.
Please god no.
... this isn't why I moved here from an Eastern European country nearly 4 years ago
Tories wet dream
It is never a strong people that cries out for the false salvation of a tyrant. A nation that has to be held together by an iron fist is a crumbling bastion of inner weakness standing on a foundation of lies, one where the spirit has already failed and the economy is next in line.
The English, as a collective, have never truly gotten over the loss of their empire and it truly seems they're willing to throw everything they've built since into the abyss of lies and propaganda in the desperate, juvenile, pathetic hope of grasping even the smallest sliver of that old glory again,
no matter how much the rest of the world stands ready and willing to humiliate them for the gravity of their folly, no matter how much their imagined resurgent might will be used to strike them across the face.
My fiancée moved to the UK from Hungary 8 years ago. She's really not happy to see the UK (or, well, England really, as this is very much an English psychosis atm) repeating the same slide she came here to escape from in Hungary.
Well you guys could always move here to the states
Yeah! We've got freedom here! No authoritarian tyranny here
You're right. Why wait for authoritarianism? You guys have already got that all figured out.
To be fair, at least you know what you get when you come here.
What kind of authoritarianism the UK will have has yet to be discovered.
It's weird, they're far from being the only former colonial power, yet it's the only country where you've got people who were born after its fall being nostalgic about it regardless.
mix the classic authoritarian appeal of 'the good old days' with some older English culture and you can probably expect some High Tory-esque renewal. Think Jacob Rees-Mogg with laptop instead of a top hat.
At the same time, the whole point of creating the US was people were fed up with English authoritarianism. Rees-Mogg wouldn't even be out of place in 18th century parliament.
On the bright side, I doubt they can undo the current US government when it comes to the post-truth rabbithole.
“The public feel strongly that the system of governing favours the rich and powerful and that political parties don’t care about the average person. [...]"
So... give more power to an individual who will perform exactly the same while disenfranchising the populace?
I think this is what happens when you have moderate levels of incompetence over time. It gradually erodes at the foundations of the constitutional process until it undermines itself. Serious constitutional reform is needed - there needs to be radical change, and it's either make democracy work or let some other belligerent form of government step in.
Some form of mandatory coalition is needed in Westminster, I think. Coalitions help to curtail the extremists in parties because there isn't one side dominating the other. Our system in Northern Ireland isn't ideal, but we're dealing with two diametrically opposite cultural and nationalistic entities that dominate voting. I think you'd have a more agreeable system in England if it was instantiated.
I also think an English Parliament/Assembly would solve a lot of the nationalism that has arisen in the lead up and during the Brexit process.There's national assemblies in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, which I think helps to, even psychologically, make people feel like they have more control of their region's political direction. In England's case, with such a large geographical area and high population, you might even want to departmentalise into the North, the Midlands and the South, or some other similar system.
And of course the scary thing about the Westminster system is that if a leader like this won a comfortable majority in parliament, there would be no lawful way of stopping them
Yet people think the house of Lords are worthless. They already hold barely any power and people still want them abolished. A properly vetted and empowered house of Lords would basically prevent dictators from doing anything the Lords would deem dangerous or anti democratic.
Poised? it's already fucking here!
I can only hope that efforts to try and bring this only helps lead to the dismantling of the UK. I think that's already going to happen eventually because the English are fucking wild people, but I'm hoping that the nationalities can get out while they still can.
I wonder, would an English Assembly do anything to decrease their dominance of parliament? I saw the Scottish and Welsh assemblies as a bone thrown to the Scots/Welsh because the main parliament has always been English controlled.
To England, Parliament is their assembly.
Also bonus points for the regional Assemblies not having equal powers in comparison to each other anyway.
France is a very good example of this. During the Revolution, they had near constant inner turmoil, but managed to simultaneously fend off virtually all of Europe despite it; the reason for this exceptional feat being found entirely within the French national spirit, and their "Elan".
Later on, Napoleon may have proved to be a strong and inspiring leader, but he was most certainly not the only, or even the primary source of their successes in the later coalition wars, unlike what those begging for a strong leader seem to think.
The UK is already the poster child of "nanny-state" authoritarianism. What more do the Tories want? Something more akin to Margaret Thatcher 2.0 or are we talking Norsefire?
"Is that a bet?" - Tories
I feel that the news article is quite sensationalist - the actual report by the Hansard Society never once states the word ‘authoritarianism’. I want to break down these two points in particular:
The study, compiled annually by the democracy charity, found that when people were asked whether “Britain needs a strong ruler willing to break the rules”, 54% agreed and only 23% said no.
‘strong leader willing to break the rules’ does not necessarily mean break the law - it could mean breaking away from constitutional conventions. But I would bet that for the average voter, a politician that ‘break the rules’ is a politician who is not a typical politician, eg they are not a career politician from upper society (which is almost a rule for MPs to begin with) and they speak their mind (of course most MPs don’t, as they risk repercussions from the party).
In all, 42% of respondents agreed with the idea that many national problems could be dealt with more effectively “if the government didn’t have to worry so much about votes in parliament”.
This is in the context of the current Brexit deadlock. May’s government can’t even pass its own bills, which is a cornerstone of Westminster democracies - Westminster governments are expected to resign and call new elections if they can’t pass their own bills. May is also in charge of a minority government, where they have to rely on the support of a minor party from Northern Ireland for confidence. Minority governments are always risky in parliaments which have majoritarian rather than proportional representation - the largest parties tends to seek confidence from the crossbench, and crossbenches are typically populated with independents and members from fringe parties - they are the king makers, not the major parties which most people actually voted for.
However the report is nonetheless concerning because it does highlight increasing disenchantment with democracy, which is a trend throughout the world. But just because voters are becoming disengaged does not necessarily mean that they are turning towards authoritarianism.
