a government's number one priority should be ensuring the future of their country, therefore saving the planet should be at the top of the list. there is so much money invested in industry that damages the environment that politicians and businesses will continue to do what they do, ignoring the damage it will have for future generations. it feels hopeless as someone who doesn't hold real power, especially when there are common folk like you and me who buy into the climate change denier bullshit and refuse to budge on the issue.
This is less daunting than we might imagine. As Erica Chenoweth’s historical research reveals, for a peaceful mass movement to succeed, a maximum of 3.5% of the population needs to mobilise.
That's a whopping 245,000,000 people worldwide that need to start seriously protesting. That's just a few million short of the entire population of the US.
We're fucked.
Capitalist governments can't fight climate change in a significant manner.
They could if they wanted to. Politicians with ethics are a thing, however rare, because fighting climate change costs money and the consequences are not apparent. If enough people cared, the governments could be forced to do it.
I'm not saying people shouldn't rebel, because apparently there will never be enough people who care.
Beneficial industries to the environment are something new and thus uncertain. I'm sure most investors would rather "stick to what they know" with industries damaging the planet.
Capitalism can help a great deal with innovation. It's just they need to push past that uncertainty and learn that pro-ecological industries are and must be the way of the future.
11 million if you take the US in a vacuum. For comparison the protests against the 2003 Iraq war, considered to be the largest protest in human history, mobilised ~36 million worldwide. London saw 1 million people. And then our governments went to war anyway.
did you know that you can bring a city to its knees by crippling important infrastructure with a group of people smaller than an average upper-level university course.
Yeah, no. Humanity will be extinct in a couple hundred years. Five hundred at the very most. There's not a damn thing we can do about it now.
Its not just government; you need to hit means by which they make their cash.
That means rushing server hubs, warehouses and blocking service roads. Capitalism and mass consumption is digital now, you have to attack the digital space.
What a nice self destructive attitude to have, to just lay down and accept death than actually choosing to fight to stay alive.
Listen to the Podcast "It Could Happen Here" for examples of how easy, and how quickly you could dismantle US infrastructure and leave the nation in a completely ungovernable state.
I'm tired of just hoping one day everyone else in the world is going to wake the fuck up. They're not.
I don't think we have any option left but to make ourselves ungovernable in an effort to oust the current power structures.
but what if the roads get blocked and someone can't make it work on time ;_;
Are you guys seriously advocating for ecoterrorism?
I don't know what to advocate for anymore. I don't care what you, or anyone else thinks anymore. We will see climate change decimate every aspect of our lives, and in 50 years when you look back, and
ask yourself "was it worth acting like ecoterrorists were the terrorists during that time"? and you probably won't answer "yeah they totally were the problem".
We're NOT going to have political change come. Just flat out. It's not coming. The Democrats? Electing them will just kick the can down the road another 4-8 years, when it will get crushed by a republican president giving into the "Will of the people".
We're going to watch the better part of every human achievement wash away. we're going to witness the deaths of quite literally billions of people, and we're going to join them.
I don't care what you think I'm advocating for, I don't even know anymore. What I am sick of though, is this half assed "Civility is important" idea where we can't discuss these extreme ideas because it's uncomfortable. Well, 44 Celsius summers are uncomfortable, and they'll be the norm for the majority of the wilting remains of the human race.
I brought up that podcast because that podcasts talks about the chances of imminent american civil war. It brings up how fragile the infrastructure is, and how easy it would be for Trump supporters to do this, and more. Just assuming that i'm advocating for eco terrorism while we're all staring down the barrel of near certain death is such a waste of all our fucking time, I don't know what else to say.
Nothing can prevent ecological collapse tbh
More like
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/236377/7a6991e8-6ae6-4b44-9e40-14f46d0c089b/image.png
It’s days like this when I start to wonder if humanity even deserves to survive.
Lake Michigan in 200 years
So am I allowed to sabotage a coal plant yet or nah
Actually it won't even be necessary, since most are along rivers- they're sabotaging themselves by destabilizing the climate and causing 500 year floods every other year, which will eventually flood the plants out and destroy them
Also, going to just go ahead and say it, I've been waiting for years to hear of a refinery being blown up by sabotage. I want it to happen. I want ecoterrorism to really get rolling, since we'll all die if it doesn't. Can it really be considered terrorism if it is merely a measure to be taken to mitigate a known future threat? It's not trying to harm anyone, its purpose is to forcefully influence the economy into dropping standards and practices that harm the planet and human health. If that is considered terrorism, then consider me a fucking terrorist sympathizer.
Ecoterrorism won't and can't solve polluting. Sabotaging refineries isn't going to stop oil from being refined or environment from being polluted, even if you somehow attacked them all at once. All it would do is disrupt oil production temporarily and make life harder for anyone dependent on oil in some way, which is to say everyone. That would basically make you the public enemy number one.
So, it wouldn't reduce human suffering in the short or long run and it wouldn't garner any sympathy for your movement. If you had such massive movement that it could conduct an operation so big it could disrupt oil production more than marginally, such a large movement could get actual positive results by participating in democracy.
somewhat of an art gripe. But the original Blade Runner's dystopia was created in the context of the 80s.
2049 probably captures what is possibly our future.now.
https://youtu.be/Yv8xEhv_hLE
No wonder that movie made me depressed.
The thing is that I have thought about it, and the short-term economic impact is exactly what we need to get the world off of carbon. If the economy shatters due to a sudden drop in supply of fuel, and if the drop turns into a prolonged shortage, then companies will have to adapt or die. Take car companies, for example - If the cost of owning and operating an ICE vehicle becomes prohibitive, then people will be forced to buy EVs. This means that companies will be forced to produce them, too. The sudden demand for power to charge these vehicles (as well as to offset the drop in power output after the fuel crash) will lead to a massive influx of cleaner power plants that completely supplant the old polluters. A few years of chaos result in a better future faster than the market would have naturally allowed.
This could be done with regulations, too, but such things are fantasy nowadays. Cold turkey on carbon might be the only option we realistically have, and even then it'd have to be done through force. The free market has already failed us, so why play it safe and civil when we are staring down the barrel of a gun?
"liberal democracy got us into this mess, but liberal democracy is the only thing that can get us out!"
Nah, there'll be no giant apartment blocks, no flying cars, no 'cool' holograms, no eternal cyberpunk-noir night.
If you want an image of the sort of future this'll bring, imagine failed post-soviet states, imagine African countries, or Middle-Eastern countries stuck in eternal cycles of sectarian violence and dictatorial bullshit.
People only produce impressive, highly organized society when their basic needs for food, water, and shelter are accounted for. That requires natural resources, energy, arable farmland. We're not looking at Blade Runner we're looking at Grand Theft Auto: Somalia Edition.
That ain't what i meant.
What you just explained is exactly what happens in 2049. The reason why those things are there is due to it being present all over the place in the original blade Runner. Now only a tiny bit of that original "Flair" exists in a dark and decrepit world where the bio-sphere has collapsed, human lives are viewed as disposable, more than the replicants themselves, and the entire world is transformed into a complete shit hole.
Alright, gotcha', haven't gotten around to seeing 2049 yet.
Yikes... and people here used to give JoeySkylynx shit for even mentioning extreme measures in a purely hypothetical context.
There will be no investment in renewable energy if the economy shatters because there will be no investments of any kind. The only thing there will be is fighting for the remaining oil because at that point it's too late to start building any new technology. In such a crisis the demand for energy will skyrocket and oil is the only source of energy that is able to keep up with the demand. Good luck trying to get anyone to follow regulations in that situation. Again this result is directly at odds with what you set out to accomplish.
It's not the "only thing" and it's not even a realistic thing. I was illustrating a point that if you somehow had a big enough movement to take down the entire oil industry, you could dominate politically in democracy just as well.
You know what dude?
I wonder every day if I should put a bullet in my head so I can avoid adding to the shit in this world, so that I can avoid seeing much of the natural world that I love die, so that I can avoid watching much of the world turn to shit, refugee's in the hundreds of millions, and all of the associated nightmares that come with it.
But it makes you uncomfortable to have people bring up the fact we're literally powerless to change our own fates outside of violence.
every aspect of our legal systems have failed us. We do not have represnetation. we do not have power. we can't even effectively "Vote with our wallets" anymore.
We're fucked, but if we say anything about it besides "we should vote for the people who would fix this" we'll be called ecoterrorists.
I guess to be simple, and straight fucking forward with you, the capitalist ventures and government expidentures that are literally driving our planet into climate change are their own form of "terrorists". They're the worst ones we've ever seen too, with more blood on their hands than any ecoterrorist you can imagine would ever hope to have. These companies are going to be reaping the costs of literally being responsible for the deaths of billions, but lets not get ahead of ourselves, because guys, ecoterrorism is the real monster here.
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.
