Skyrim multiplayer mod may never release as devs “don’t owe the community anythi - Sensationalist Headlines

https://www.pcgamesn.com/skyrim/skyrim-together-release-date A developer of a popular Skyrim multiplayer mod says that the team “doesn’t owe the community anything.” Maxgriot, one of the mod team behind Skyrim Together, posted a comment on Reddit earlier this month suggesting that the developers have considered giving up on the project due to the reaction from players.

This is the same multiplayer mod that had a bunch of drama erupt over them stealing SKSE code for use in it. Not surprised they're having further squabbles with the community. I am however, surprised they're still getting $18k a month despite the SKSE incident.

Getting $18k a month to make the mod and they have the gall to say they don't owe the community anything. Why is it mod makers are the biggest drama queens? Not all of them, obviously, but there's a shocking amount of people like this, especially in the modding scenes for Bethesda games.

Skyrim modmakers, especially those who make sexual addons tend to be the biggest drama lightning rod babies in existence. Track the history of SAM for example, the creator was constantly getting into shitfits with other big-ego modders and moved hosting forums twice over as a result.

So a bunch of egoistical shitheads getting away stealing others work and making money off it are being bigger pieces of shit? How surprising.

I wanted to post that mods are still passion projects and they actually don't have -oh they got paid for the mod by the community. What a clusterfuck.

I think it has something to do with the level of dedication it takes to be working on stuff like this (typically) for free. If you're willing to sacrifice a shit ton of time just for personal satisfaction and community brownie points then you're probably more susceptible to anyone criticizing you.The worst of these people start getting the idea that they're part of a noble race of celebrated modders and if their illusion gets broken they absolutely flip shit and at worst decide that the unappreciative peasantry don't deserve their work and wipe their mods from existence as they dramatically self-destruct off the internet. A game modder is simultaneously a being capable of performing miracles and also a ticking drama bomb.

Really who do you expect to air their drama out in public more: a group of random people with varying levels of commitment to essentially a hobby, or a bunch of people who have skin in the game and don't want to lose their cushy software job?

Because there's no team community reigning them in, you'll find these people on any dev team of sufficient size, difference there is they've learned to keep their mouth shut after being fired a couple of times... or haven't as we've seen from Riot and Blizzard and EA. Point being, people in suits at the Ubi compound think the exact same things about the numbers on their screen. Those numbers aren't people they're entitlement points and revenue streams. They simply don't say it public. Being creative comes with its own set of personalty traits, and not all of them are positive. For personal experience, comedians of any worth tend to be broken people, actors of any value tend to be obsessive, child like and driven to the point of harm themselves or others to produice their craft or the environment thereof. People like Elianora and Arthmoor genuinely thought they would get jobs at Bethesda by telling the community what they should like or not and how to like it, when Beth themselves tend to stay very very quiet that kind of thing because the gaming public as any group composed of disparate source and views, won't always empathize with your position and frankly sometimes they shouldn't) Contextual EG: Beth has some really really janky anims. They don't have to be, not even kind of, as ironically enough the sex and anime combat community of Beth games has demonstrated repeatedly. The lead animator at Beth hates animating people. Literally. Hates it. "it's very tedious and boring". Beth's making enough money with their current lineup that they feel no need to correct this, so someone that only like animating horses is their animation lead (this is double awesome considering how bad horses in Skyrim animate) and thus animations in Beth games are enh on a good day. Thus enter the community, and two paradigms. 1. People get the idea they are the god of animating because they beat the junior high quality level set by the home team, even if their work actually isn't all that great. 2. Money. With the introduction of directly paid mods this effect is amplified exponentially, and surprise surprise it turns out there's a fair chunk of amateur animators that are literally in the same category as the people they routinely talk shit about, their work ain't all that great and they routinely have meltdowns and generally act like insufferable fucksticks to anything that isn't overwhelmingly fawning praise. In addtion to logistical amplification, then there's good ol' Nexus which in addition to a political minefield of resetera proportions replete with cliques and power tiers, pretty much abolishes open criticism of platformed content in any form; and redditt is of course basically an echo chamber simulator, so good luck there. Lack of criticism and review + money = insufferable screechbeast personbabies, with fail, and the people unlikely to fall under that stimulus vortexc are sadly the minority, not the majority cause human nature in general, creative types in particular.

Wouldn't surprise me if they'd got their money now and can hardly be fucked working on it anymore anyway. Happens on Kickstarter and Early Access all the time, though at least on Kickstarter if you fail to meet your obligations there's some accountability. Nothing like that with Patreon, though there definitely should be.

You guys remember fakefactory?

As someone whose been knee-deep in creative communities for the better of a decade, I can't overstate how true this is. You've likely heard the adage that "so long as there are two people on the planet, there will be drama." Well, God fucking help us all if those two people are artists. I'm not quite sure what it is about artists, but they as a whole tend to be the biggest drama lightning rods you can possibly conceive of. Maybe it's something to do with the fact that, for a lot of people, their art is deeply personal, and they consider their art to be an extension of themselves - as a consequence, any criticisms of their art is an attack against themselves, and any praise of their work is masturbation for their ego. Both of which can greatly affect senses of self-worth, and in turn, generate drama in the change of that self-worth. Obviously, not all artists tend to be like this. Humble artists are absolutely a thing, as are artists who are completely detached from their work (that "I make furry art for a living and absolutely hate it" greentext, for example, is absolutely a real thing, and I personally know people who actively despise their art and their fanbase and only do it to pay the bills). But, in my experience, a good majority of artists tend to fall into this middle-ground. And if you thought the general Skyrim community was bad with drama, oh boy, you haven't seen anything until you've seen the amount of drama that sex and porn mods tend to generate. You'd never think that communities based around bringing people together in the most literal and intimate way could be filled with so much hate and anger.

I do'nt blame them, their whole subreddit is probably the most fucking awful subreddit I've ever seen. I had to unsub a long time ago because, literally, the whole community would post nothing but mean shit and retarded memes.

These people have been absolutely toxic since the very start, when they first made the subreddit for it they essentially intentionally stirred drama against another modder that'd been trying to do it for a long time (for free, though now also abandoned it seems) for attention. No idea why anyone would think giving these people money (better yet $18k a month fucking yikes) would be a good idea.

Idiots and money are ever soon parted.

This is why paid mods is a bad idea.

Getting 18k a month in donations and then bold-facedly claiming you don't owe the community anything is probably about as close as you can get to negative amounts of self-awareness. Fuck you, man. Fuck you so hard.

They're going to take the 18k and not release a mod on the basis that they don't owe the community anything? I smell a lawsuit in the future.

And this is one of the major I've long said to never give modders money. I'm not sure what it is about skyrim modding that attracts so many of these people. It's probably how brain dead easy the game is to mod.

Skyrim modders can be just as shit as Bethesda when it comes to greed, very unsurprising.

It started with chinese modders actually, who after noticing how much sims modders were charging and getting away with started converting sims hair made by other people to Skyrim for money. This was before patreon. Dead easy is a part of it, but the main reason is the entitled gamer stereotype having real word overtones, which is the normal for a single player power fantasy. Then came the animefication and eastern historical fantasy mods mostly from korea, with the same deal. Because Naver and other korean hosts demanded Korean SSNs to dol or even interact at all with the sites, it stayed exclusive to there for a while with occasional flare ups from japan. Sims and then Gmod/Source players started throwing money at anyone who would convert outfits and hair for them in Skyrim, and then of course Bethesda and Steam tried to institutionalize it, and Patreon succeeded. Now you have people literally making thousands and tens of thousandsof dollars a month using 100% of other people's assets, particularly in China and Eastern Europe. and my personal favorite is this: https://www.patreon.com/Belmont_Boy Dude is making 2500 a month for *renting* his load order, and not a single mod is his, nor is the program he's using, nor is even the load order he adopted.

The problem is that there are two mutually-exclusive creative mindsets: The Professional and the Hobbyist. The professional creator understands constructive criticism and understands to stay quiet and ignore destructive criticism unless it is so blatantly false and so unfortunately popular that it threatens to poison the public opinion unjustly, such as Chinese review bombing for not including Chinese localization. The professional understands that their work must stand alone against criticism and as a result must be as whole and complete as possible. A pro is ready to throw work out and start over if it can be done better, if they have to. The professional, simply put, understands how to treat their art like a job and how to handle others treating it like work for sale/trade/etc. The hobbyist is a creator because they want to be recognized and their emotions and feelings are deeply wrapped up in their creations. They are incapable of tossing their own work because they're too precious and too dear and the hobbyist isn't a professional and is creating for themselves, not for a paycheck. Their creations are personal expressions of accomplishment and need to be cherished and understood for the special snowflakes that they are. The problem is when you give hobbyists a fanbase and a five-figure Patreon income and suddenly they think they can act like a professional creator -- without understanding what makes a professional successful and capable at their work. Everything goes to their head and they Dunning-Kruger themselves, and they almost never have the brains to consult with actual pros to find out how they should act, they just act the same way they always have only now it's on a paid-for public stage. They are unlikely to figure out the successful habits of the professional creator before they burn all of their bridges because they don't even understand the difference, all they see is that they've created a thing so that entitles them to call themselves a creator and expect attention and praise for it just like everyone else -- at least as they incorrectly perceive it.

An open ecosystem is fine. Using other people's work without their consent or permission to earn money is not, and the onus of that being a problem is on the people paying as much as it is the people stealing other people's work.

On the one hand he’s right that modders don’t really owe the community anything, but on the other hand, if he’s collecting money for that purpose he absolutely does. I can’t really blame them for hating the community though. Once you get into that spotlight, a lot of community toxicity gets focused at you.

Or maybe you just say controversial things a lot, going full circle back to the first point.

To be fair, they got into the spotlight for toxic behaviour themselves, which is why the community has turned on them. Lot of dirt in these guys background, and that's without getting into the recent stuff with the code stolen from the ScriptExtender team etc.

This reminds me when EA tried to spin Mass Effect 3s bad ending onto the customer.

Just a reminder that Morrowind has a multiplayer mod that works well and I believe recently implemented synced potions and spells too afaik

I guess when Bethesda releases a piece of shit video game that is lauded as being "fixed by mods" it probably creates some savior complex in these people.

Sorry but if you're getting 18k per month you do owe something.