• Spain general election: Socialists win as far-right underperforms
    37 replies, posted
https://elpais.com/elpais/2019/04/28/inenglish/1556446952_179804.html https://www.theguardian.com/world/live/2019/apr/28/spain-election-turnout-increases-as-voters-head-to-polls-for-third-time-in-four-years-live-updates Guardian It’s all gone a bit quiet in Margaret Thatcher plaza in Madrid, where Vox supporters have been watching the election results trickle in. Polls released immediately after voting closed indicated that the anti-feminist, anti-immigration party would win as many as 38 seats in parliament. But with two thirds of votes counted, Vox are on track to win nearly half of that, with 23 seats. That’s still 23 more than they had before tonight’s vote, but fewer than hoped. it appears that Sunday’s general election could be the worst in electoral history for the conservative People’s party (PP). In 2016, PP led by Mariano Rajoy won 137 seats, which looks set to more than halve with 66 in 2019. El Pais “Vox has managed a considerable result, without a doubt. But if the final results do not vary much from these, the massive rise that some were predicting will not come to pass. For now they are around the 10% mark.” Desolate scene outside the PP [conservative party] headquarters in Madrid... There are literally four people here. https://i.imgur.com/9LMyczc.png TLDR the socialist party PSOE has won but will have to form a coalition. Their conservative rival PP has fucking died and far-right Vox has entered parliament but with fewer seats than expected. PSOE will prob have some tough negotiations to form a government but there is no way for a right-wing government to be formed. https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/165/822162e1-d72f-4e34-bf37-8764b2f92d38/image.png
https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/134246/23069ca8-279e-4ce7-9187-62d66787bd90/image.png
Along with Catalan, Valencian, and Basque nationalist parties also a gain several new seats after the 2017 Catalan independence referendum incident.
That was such a fucking close call, that I had for this entire day my heart in my hand. We are all feared the fascists would come on full power together with the rest of the right and far right wing parties like it happened some months ago at my region ( Andalusian elections ), but seems that at this very last day people remembered that their vote fucking counts, so they moved their asses rather than staying at home. Is still not a good result since the left ( UP+IU+Equo+others ) had even less votes this time, and PSOE ( center-left party, which through their actions are closer to be center or even right wing ) will very likely to make an alliance with Cs ( center-right party, which is actually right wing, no matter how much they call themselves "liberals" ) so is going to be a mixed bag of results ( we will have to look closely which fundamental human right they sacrifice for this "stability" ). However, even if the traditional far-right party ( PP ) has lost a lot of votes and the new fascist party ( VOX, which follows the same strategies and ideals seen in other countries ) way less than everybody expected, they are still too many. Their sole presence at the parliament will cast a shadow upon LGBT, feminism or worker rights stuff, legitimizing the "debate" about them. It feels like we actually delayed the catastrophe rather than avoiding it, however :/ It gets more depressing when you realize people didn't give a fuck about which measures each party have until the very last second when the public realized that assholes revering Franco, negating the Holocaust, and considering Queer, feminists and socialists as subhumans, all of their opinions being without a doubt expressed in public could actually obtain the power. At least, I can go to bed tonight without fearing that I wouldn't be able to return home and being an exiled. The European and autonomic elections will be "interesting" to watch, I hope we can at least repeat this feat of stopping the incoming madness.
I'm proud of this election, it's great that PSOE+UP+compromís+PNV will very likely form government.
I don't get why everyone has rated this "winner" or why Smurfy thinks this is good news. A PSOE victory with this number of seats means that they are going to have to make pacts with the alt left party podemos and , worse of all, the separatists, if he wants to form government and become president, which he is obviously going to do. Now, everytime I see a thread about the Cataluña issue I see that everyone keeps being misinformed about it. This separatism movement is bad because it is the same exact thing as brexit, just a bunch of politicians using false arguments and lies to trick the population into voting for something that goes against the population's own interests, but that it is good for those politicians to further their own career. It is frankly sad that you people can see the faults and criticize brexit but don't see the Cataluña situation is the same. And before anyone brings up the referendum, know that it means nothing. First of all, the tables asked for no IDs , so people could vote multiple times and under different identities. Second of all, there were almost no stay votes, because the government said very clearly that this was an illegal referendum and told actual law abiding citizens not to vote on them and just stay home :V. Now, don't get me wrong, I don't support VOX and I think they're just as dangerous as Trump, and I'm glad they didn't win and wish they had less seats; but PSOE winning means separatism and mistrust wining, and a much more fragmented Spain.
good for the people getting what they want, but idk how to feel about actual socialists being elected into the government
I don't know about you, but I am from Andalucía, and I was pretty happy to see PSOE finally get kicked out of Andalucía, even if it meant to have to make a pact with those VOX assholes. Specially since the PSOE government was nothing more than corruption and caciquism, and laws that made average citizens go bankrupt for no reason at all, "el impuesto de sucesiones" that were supported solely by PSOE
There's nothing majorly wrong with podemos, they aren't what you call "alt-left" (is that even a thing?). I'm pretty sure PSOE+Compromís+UP+PNV will be able to figure out something.
Guardian seems to think they will be able to govern without Catalan nationalist support?
Yes they will, AFAIK as I said PSOE+UP+Compromís+PNV+Other smaller parties should be enough to form government without having to depend on the (far-)right ciudadanos.
Last I saw on the results they were short , they still needed 10 seats, no?
I know you're from here and been told socialism is bad and scary and all that but can you tell me what's actually wrong with socialists?
PSOE+UP+compromis+PNV gets them 172 seats.
Still 4 seats short of the 176 majority
Replacing corrupts with fascists doesn't improve the situation at all, even if the status quo wasn't good to begin with. Also: and laws that made average citizens go bankrupt for no reason at all, "el impuesto de sucesiones" that were supported solely by PSOE Oh yes, the average citizen that has several millions at the bank account, suure. BTW, the "oh no negotiating with the nationalists is a bad thing" is completely the wrong mentality here. You have to remember that was the PP already a decade ago being so obsessed with "Spain only has one culture and language" ideal that they fucked over the whole relationship with the regions, often stripping them of local power or funds, so ofc they turned over nationalism. And the whole "Catalans / Basques are the public enemy" mentality that we have been seen in the last two years have made worse the situation. We have to sit down, talk things again and repair the relationship ( which is what England and Scotland also failed to do, what a coincidence huh? ).
Not only that, but Spain has been swinging from conservatives to socialists pretty much since the beggining of democracy. https://i.imgur.com/SYVv52T.png So now you're up for 4~8 years of socialist measures with independentists and radical-leftists on your side, and the opposition gaining arguments against and weight for the next 4~8. Except you just killed PP and your next opposition won't be the stable more-center-than-extreme-ish right. Oh no, you're going straight into your far-right, just in time for more and more like-minded parties in the EU to flourish. PSOE+UP+ERC gives them 180, and it wouldn't be the first time Sánchez goes back on his word. Bet there's many more concerts he can go with the private helicopter assigned that way.
Then you'll just join forces with ERC, that would be the way, or bildu.
El impuesto affects everyone, not just rich people, and it is known that there is a certain level of corruption as well of the people who evaluate the value of the home, by appraising it at a much higher value than it is actually worth. For example, when Andalucía still had it, if your father had an apartment that was 100k, the appraiser could value it at 300k and that would mean you suddenly would have a debt of 75k out of the blue, now , imagine that you were living on minimum wage. And you can't just say that you don't want the property, you're forced to find a way to pay it. How does someone that had financial trouble to begin with even manage this situation? Also, the independence thing hasn't been going on for a decade, it's a problem that has been going on for centuries, specially in the case of Cataluña. And I hate how you defend nationalism, specially when ETA was a thing that existed.
Are you really comparing pro-independence and pro-referendum people with ETA? Sorry mate but what's the point of discussing if that's what you are going to say?
ERC told Sánchez the only way they would support him is if they allowed a referendum :V , which is a really really bad idea, as seen with brexit and the state of misinformation. Also BILDU literally supported terrorism and has, in fact, terrorist in it :V
There's nothing wrong with a referendum, brexit was a bad example, but letting people decide is never a bad thing. Basque nationalists aren't the same as ETA.
People pointing fingers at terrorism (with "terrorism" being "people I disagree with") while being okay with genocide. Typical Spanish right.
Thank fuck
Yea, I'm sure if you are average you could inherit that, without a doubt. Like the news of that woman being on benefits because she accepted the heritage of his grandfather and complained she was going to be ruined due this...until the media found that she owns a couple of factories, and she only filled the papers to be jobless in order to move from one multinational to another. Or that "rancher" that was going be miserable due this but actually had like a shit ton of properties. The PP and Vox did a good job pushing fake news about this 24/7, and is a shame a lot of people fell on it, even if economical experts already said at the first days that most of the population wouldn't be affected by this.
The fact that Britain had a referendum and didn't use heavily-armoured police to pull people by their hair from impromptu polling stations is a good example of one of the ways this situation is different. I mostly think Brexit is dumb because it's primarily trade regulations the UK has to 'put up with', whereas Catalonia is more about genuine independence. I don't really have any strong opinions on the Catalonian independence thing but I do think it's quite different to Brexit.
There's also quite a bit of difference between a country pulling out of the EU and a region wanting independence and planning to join the EU afterwards. It's more similar to Scotland's situation if anything.
Also, we are talking about the same country that did the scottish referendum.
The result was expected TBH, the right parties are very divided, PP has lost tons of trust and vox are a bit too extreme. However what surprises me the most are the Senate results. Did anyone seriously believed Vox was going to win? lmao Yes, as always, there is shitty people taking advantage of this, and there is also fake news. But it is undeniable that this tax was extremely unfair in andalucia, while in other comunities was almost non existant. I know (average) working class people who almost had to renounce to the house their parents have been paying for 35 years or more, how is this fair? If my parents died last year I could'nt have paid for my inheritance either. There are fake news and bullshit in both sides, im only talking about my personal experience. Im glad this tax is gone even if i dont like the right parties
Are you kidding me mate? Otegi is a literal terrorist that was part of ETA and is also part of BILDU , and so are other previous members of ETA. BILDU literally has terrorist inside it. Stop whatever drugs you're taking and stop making strawmans while you're at it, since I have never said anything that would indicate I support terrorism. Yeah, and there's also a difference between an official government organized referendum, and a vote with no regulations nor rules being organized by separatists. Not to mention separatists were also beating up guardias civiles, the violence went both ways( not that any violence at all is ok)
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