• Men falsely accused of rape are victims too, says wrongly-charged student
    52 replies, posted
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2019/04/29/men-falsely-accused-rape-victims-says-wrongly-charged-student/ A student who was wrongly charged with rape has said men falsely accused of a sexual offence are also victims as he welcomed the move to force complainants to hand over their phones for disclosure purposes in such cases. Liam Allan , then 22, went on trial in December 2017 facing 12 counts of rape and sexual assault. He had spent two years on bail and endured three days of trial before the case collapsed as it emerged his supposed victim had been pestering him for "casual sex". "It has to work both ways - the ideology of it all. We deserve the same rights until the point of conviction," Mr Allan said. Rape victims are being told they must hand over their mobile phones to police or risk prosecutions against their attackers not going ahead. Police and prosecutors say the forms are an attempt to plug a gap in the law, which cannot force complainants or witnesses to disclose their phones, laptops, tablets and smart watches.
Scary that he may have been found guilty if it weren't for this. One of the big problems with sexual assault cases, especially rape, in general, is that there's often not a huge amount to go on.
Torygraph outrage baiting as always.
Got to find some way to encourage more victims to take rape kits. I honestly have no idea how to do that though. I hate to use the word normalise here but I can't think of something else.
How in the fuck is this outrage baiting?
The BBC ran with it too and they're generally considered centre-left. It's just news, my friend.
do you not see how being falsely accused of rape could be hurtful to a person?
Falsely accusing someone of rape should be punishable by 1/2 the sentence of the alleged rape falsely accused.
Even rape kits aren't fully perfect, they really just show if you had sex (though other signs such as bruising are also rape signs). Its awful how there really is no good answer to this. Statistically speaking, I believe only around 9% of rape claims are false, so its generally better to believe them, but it still leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Itd best to try to remain neutral
I don't believe any first world nation punishes rape with death.
Gabe Newell releases Half-Life 3.
You cut them in half and execute one half, while the other gets to live, of course.
That might make actual rape victims more hesitant to report the rapist.
It's fucked but many would regard this logic as "sexist" and "Rape apologist" not that anyone should give a single fuck what those types think, but it's more common than it possibly should be and its unbelievably toxic
Out of curiosity, why exactly half? Why not equal punishment for false accusations?
I don't disagree with you
There's a pretty high burden of proof required to determine that the accuser is lying, so as long as everybody is clear on that, I don't think that'll be a problem.
It's one thing to commit fraud on someone, and ruin their life that way but at least you aren't ruining their reputation like you do with rape. False rape accusations need massive fines. If its actually 100% confirmed a lie, it should cost hundreds of thousands of dollars, and even more if its serious enough and depending on your income. you can very easily ruin someone financially and reputably with this shit.
There are no good statistics on this because it's a claim that is nearly impossible to measure, you can add the modifier proven false to it to be more accurate. We can measure provably false claims with some error(There will be false positives and negatives) as the verdict is delivered by third parties. And proven true claims for the same reasons. But not the in between, because both parties have large incentives to lie(A false accuser is rarely going to admit it without proof, and a rapist isn't going to say yeah the claim is true) and proof is very difficult to acquire. And when it comes to this crime, conviction for either side is very low, to the point that 85-90% of claims are never proven either way. It should absolutely not be used as data in how common false claims are, as the equivalent would see proven rapes even rarer, and following that line of logic would make the claim that false claims are more common than real ones(I'd guess that this is because false claims are easier to prove). That would also leave out claims that don't go to police. And studies of the general population on rape occurrence, which remove most of the incentive to lie, show that unfortunately it is quite large. That being said there's no studies I'm aware of on the opposite end. Short of mind-reading devices, I don't know that we'll ever get a solid answer on this.
Why do people say this? Please think about it for a second. Not every single case results in a conviction. If they can't find evidence to convict someone of rape, they wouldn't automatically convict the accuser of lying. There would need to be evidence beyond a reasonable doubt that shows the accusation was fabricated. If there's no strong evidence either way, nobody's convicted. This would really help disincentive false accusations ONLY, it would help true victims be believed and make new accusations more credible, and it wou
Not sure how I feel about the phone thing to be honest. Seems more likely to me that law enforcement and prosecutors would dig through victims’ phones to find texts to discredit them i.e. if they’ve flirted or had a prior relationship.
Except there is a legitimate problem where a notable part of society shout down anyone who merely suggests a possibility exists where the accused may not be guilty and people shouldn’t make judgments about rape accusations until all of the facts come out. But somehow this often gets interpret as “you’re calling rape victims liars!!!”. As for the phone thing though I definitely see that backfiring and being used by law enforcement to dig for dirt on the victims if the accused is either a police officer or some kind of influential person like a politician or celebrity.
Rape gets death in the US military and I believe rape of a child gets it in a few US states.
it's the chilling effect. it doesn't matter even if we use a harsh standard (eg must be a malicious act, requiring intent to fuck with the person accused, which would be hard to prove) - there's a pretty good likelihood that actual rape victims will see it as a significant risk and discincentive of actually reporting their rape. also attorney fee shifting isn't a thing in the united states except for civil rights cases.
It absolutely does not get death in the military. Just clearing that up.
"All right, your choice miss, do you want the top half or the bottom?"
How does one non-maliciuously falsely accuse someone of rape?
In modern courts, including the UK, those types of relationships are banned(or should be anyway) from being used in the court of law to begin with. If a prosecutor is already looking to go to trial; then giving over the phone records will only help solidify your case if its true. If its false, they can head this off at the pass.
Because falsely accusing someone of rape is not nearly as bad as actually raping someone but it is still fucking awful to do to someone (in my opinion.)
I usually see it being 5% but honestly the way people use this statistic is a bit misleading. 5% of rape accusations are proven false, but then only about 5-7% of rapes are ever proven to have happened as well, with roughly 10-12% ever really seeing some kind of verdict at all, about 90%ish are dismissed due to there not being enough evidence one way or the other. So of those that actually reach a verdict, about 50-40% are proven to be false, and the percentage of false accusations among the 90% that don't see any conviction is anyones guess. Rape (for some reason facepunch has decided to shorten this link down to the word rape automatically, not my choice of wording)
Sorry, you need to Log In to post a reply to this thread.