• #GenerationLockdown: Two Australians shake up America with viral anti-gun ad
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https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/226043/1c9c7592-04b4-4db3-a0d4-a2e73d6c3b26/D7715805-45B0-48A2-8ECA-560192C50A16.jpeg On a quiet afternoon somewhere in America, a couple of dozen employees gathered for an all-staff meeting. "Today, we're going to be learning what to do in the event of an active shooter," the boss said to the fidgeting group.  "We've brought in a special guest. She's an expert on this." The expert was Kayleigh, an 11-year-old girl with blonde hair and blue overalls. As she enters the room, the employees smiled, thinking it's a joke.  But they traded those expressions for gasps as Kayleigh offered detailed instructions in a calm, authoritative tone.  "If there was an active shooter, you would all be dead," she said. "When you talk out loud, the shooter can hear where you are and where you're hiding." Kayleigh continued to outline tips for dealing with an armed attacker — things like pushing chairs against the doors, what to listen for to detect the shooter's location, breaking and climbing out broken windows. A few of her shocked adult students were moved to tears.  Some look away in discomfort. All were silent.  Kayleigh finished with a rhyme she learnt from her elementary school teacher, singing softly: "Lockdown, lockdown, let's all hide. Lock the doors and stay inside." The message: this is what American children learn at school. It is all part of a video created by two Australians, Alex Little and Karsten Jurkschat, for March For Our Lives. The student-led organisation was established after the February 2018 shooting at Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Florida. Since it went live about a month ago, the video has gone viral.  It has racked up more than 50 million views and caught the attention of politicians and celebrities at a time when Americans are becoming increasingly numb to school shootings. The pro-gun control group Everytown for Gun Safety counted 103 school shootings in 2018. Video gained viral popularity in the aftermath of shooting https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/226043/f29edf39-85aa-4e69-8012-c83aaa9f091d/F3C36E5B-2F47-47FC-89F7-176B79A3DBB8.jpeg School shootings are so frequent in the US that Alex Little and Karsten Jurkschat knew their video could be released at any time and would become relevant.  Within days of the video's release, one student was killed and eight others were injured by a gunman in Colorado.  It was the second recent shooting in which a student 'hero' was killed tackling the shooter, serving to re-ignite debate over who should be taking responsibility. That may be one reason why the video went viral. It was only released on social media, and has since spread organically, Mr Jurkschat said. The hashtag launched with the campaign, #GenerationLockdown, was trending on Twitter soon after the shooting. Mr Little believes the video's success lies in its truthfulness. "There wasn't a lot of gift-wrapping around this. It's what kids in America learn in school. And it's putting it in an interesting environment, which is an adult situation," he said. "Usually these secrets — these lockdowns — are kept in the classroom. And parents hear snatches of what kids are learning in school, but they don't really hear details." https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-06-01/two-australians-made-a-viral-gun-control-video/11118340
The biggest lasting impact of shootings in the US has definitely been its one on the cultural psyche of the nation. Kids are going to school wearing clear plastic backpacks that make them look like some sort of prison inmate. Metal detectors are a common feature at most large gatherings. Large bags aren't allowed at certain school district functions. The weight of each and every shooting wears on everyone every day. There's this pervasive feeling of "I no longer feel safe in the spaces I should be the most at ease and my freedoms are being taken away because of it". It sucks, and I'm glad I graduated before this all washed over our education system.
From what I understand, the year after I graduated was once shit hit the fan like crazy, late 2013 to be exact. Sandy Hook is where I'd say the line was crossed and erased.
It's so fucking strange hearing how nonchalant Americans are when it comes to Guns and their laws. Like holy shit, you guys have shootings every month, that's fucking normal in America. It's like no one gives a shit over there.
I remember comparing notes with a same-aged American friend who grew up in South Carolina and went to public school. They had to pass through a metal detector to get into school, and they needed a security swipecard to register their presence with the school -- both to validate that they are a student and allowed in and to register them as present in the school's attendance system so the office has an easier time tracking whose house to call for skipping/missing school. The swipe door was supervised by a security guard. There were also frequent locker inspections for contraband. I feel like I went to high school and my friend went to day prison. And this was in the 90s.
People never cared about school shootings until it left the cities where everything was just blamed on gangs, school shootings and violence has been a problem for a lot longer than just recently its just gotten much more coverage, plus the NRA and pro gun lobbies have had such an outrageous grip on this country's political system
'Because it's a big country with lots of people' will always be the excuse, no matter how much that doesn't mean a thing.
This is why schools get shot up, they are operated like prisons. Nobody gives a shit about the students, if they have a problem they are on their own. Lil Timmy over here getting bullied day after day with nobody helping him out is going to snap one day and bring a gun to stop it.
I was in high school when Columbine happened. About a week later, a copycat shooting in the small town of Taber, Alberta, happened. One of my teachers was from Taber and it really upset and disturbed him for like a week. Fast-forward 20 years and America has evolved a school shooting defense/response industry to supply families and schools with equipment and training to survive shootings. Whaaaaaaaat the fuuuuuuuuuck
Until everyone gets their heads out of their asses and decide to repeal the second amendment (Yes it CAN be done), and then have all the guns forcefully taken, this is just the fact of life in the USA. So everyone can stop acting shocked and appalled by it. The whole mentality here in the US about guns is really weird. It's like if you got hurt because you stabbed yourself, but then decided to keep stabbing yourself while shrugging and saying I don't know why I hurt
Forcefully taking people's guns would violate more than just the 2nd amendment.
So what? Violating an amendment is better than fucking shootings.
The Second Amendment isn't going to be repealed until the nation as a whole is demanding for it, state by state. A civil war and/or the country collapsing is more likely than that happening in the next 25 years. You know that old saying, "Guns don't kill people, people do"? Well, it's right, but let's expand it a little to get at the truth behind the cliché phrase: Guns don't want to kill, people want to kill. A gun is a tool designed to end life but it does nothing unless it is held by someone (never mind negligent discharge by dropping/etc.). If you want to fix America and stop the shootings, fix the people. Tax the shit out of the rich and use all that money they've been hoarding to pay for infrastructure, medical care, mental health care, nutrition and food security, and all of the other things a responsible society ensures is taken care of for its citizens. In America, the citizen is by and large abandoned by the system and left to fend for themselves against a sea of predatory capitalist entities, and the result is an overworked, mentally ill population with deep dysfunction in the collective homes of America. Some people are lucky, others become the next Dylan Klebold or the next Elliott Rodgers, and still others are their victims. Any idea involving taking away everyone's guns is doomed to fail until you have rehabilitated society to the point that no one feels they need a gun to protect themselves from criminals and mentally-unhinged shooters. Claiming eliminating guns isn't the answer, because knife attacks will increase, and if we take everyone's knives away and prohibit blades, strangulation or mixing household chemicals to make dangerous reactions is next. Banning the symptom doesn't cure the disease. Don't get me wrong, I'm left wing for a Canadian and a decade ago I'd have a passionate rant about regulating guns here, but I've watched gun control laws come, fail, and go, and not a single iota of effort has gone into solving the underlying issues. The result is that the US's mass shooting rate is well above basically anywhere but active warzones. It's a misguided, simplistic approach and one the NRA has taken great care to inoculate half the population against.
I'm definitely pro 2A, but The fact of the matter is if you don't support some level of gun control you're naive out of your mind.
To expand on this, because I already know what the replies will be, he is totally correct in saying banning guns is a bandaid fix. The 2nd amendment is unique to America, but so are all of it's other problems compared to other western countries. Banning guns would lead to less gun crime, but there simply is not the social stability and security provided in America like there is in other countries. Saying that other types of crime would simply increase is totally fair in that context.
One of the trainings for my job was to learn what do to in an active shooter scenario in the work place.
There is a substantial population here that has been led to believe that all of the issues with public education stem from wasted resources, unions "protecting" bad teachers, and secularization of education. People don't want to pay for the resources needed in public education. They want highly trained staff, but they don't want to pay them a fair wage. People want to foster more experiences with trade professions, but don't want to pay for the tools and resources necessary for facilitating that sort of learning environment. Tying school funding to property taxes here also encourages people to adopt the mindset of only paying for the schools their kids are utilizing instead of funding education for the general populace. It's also put a bunch of schools decades behind on funding, which then gets used as a justification for calling funding for education a money sink. This is a country that would rather blow money on metal detectors than give poor kids lunch. Our priorities are so fucked on so many levels.
Ah yes violating the documents that literally are how the government is supposed to run and operate combined with outlining what rights are natural to people just for existing surely is “better than fucking shootings”. that surely wouldn’t lead to an even bigger political crises than we’re currently in!
If a state got away with violating the constitution, then it probably would not be long before some other states removed the voting rights of groups they dislike. You could remove the amendment though. The founding fathers did not get everything right when they wrote the constitution, and it's allowed to change.
Genuine question: If such a thing were to happen, do you think that security details for politicians, celebrities, other "important persons", and entities like money trucks should be allowed to keep their guns?
Worry about your own country and stop encouraging knee jerk feel good legislation that ruins my rights along with the rights of millions of people for the actions of a select few.
In honesty from a gun owner’s perspective, the gun laws suck across the board and should probably have a heavy rework. To make matters worse, the ATF and DOJ are not doing their part to enforce the few sane laws already on the books like prosecuting straw purchasers or keeping NICS up to date. (See the last couple of mass shootings) Instead I’ve mostly heard them going after easy targets and ruining people’s lives over technicalities about what constitutes a short barreled weapon. Basically resources are being diverted away from the very important shit in favor of prosecuting people over this: https://files.facepunch.com/forum/upload/237763/45846a76-8705-40ab-91b2-5123ebc3ba9e/9F337386-661B-4A41-9C5D-13D4272FA476.jpeg And for a while, holding the third gun a certain way by shouldering it risked 10 years in federal prison because the act of shouldering it constituted “manufacture of a short barreled rifle “. I think the reason people are so apathetic is gun control proponents which catch on in legislation only ever suggest measures based on ignorance or worse, petty measures made in bad faith like the ones above, and then act surprised when it gets shot down every single time. Meanwhile gun owners are apathetic because every high profile shooting means being demonized and having to explain every time why certain measures like assault weapons bans are flawed to people who are hyped up on emotions and argue that we “value murder toys more than human lives” as if being allowed to own weapons and preventing shootings were mutually exclusive. They’re not. If I could redo the entire thing and make changes to the current laws and policies of agencies in charge of enforcing them, I’d do the following: Allocate the DoJ funds specifically for prosecution of straw purchase, the #1 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. Allocate the ATF funds specifically for prosecution of unscrupulous FFL holders, the #2 source of illegal firearms, but which they currently lack the resources to pursue. Raise liability on stolen firearms, or introduce safe storage laws. Actual safes are not always a valid option for people due to various circumstances, but the least they could do is have a lock which locks open the action of firearm or having a the weapon in a gun case/container which can be locked. Also no more leaving weapons unattended in vehicles unless you’re prohibited from carrying them with you such as the case with gun free zones. Further restrict handguns, the overwhelmingly most common weapons used in crime. (NOT ban, restrict as in maybe some additional screening requirements at no additional cost to the buyer or seller?) Open the NICS to non-FFLs, then mandate background checks on all sales. Fix the broken interaction between state and federal databases (due to HIPAA) which often causes mental issues to not be reported to the federal background check system. Address suicide in some meaningful capacity. Address gang violence in some meaningful capacity. These are the social issues that are the most common root causes of gun violence. BONUS: require background checks for black powder weapons. Did you know that felons can buy things like black power revolvers and shotguns? In exchange, the following concessions should be made for gun owners as A COMPROMISE: Passage of a federal law which recognizes assault weapons bans (including magazine bans/limitations) to be an infringement upon the 2nd amendment and unlawful for any federal, state, or local government or authority to enforce. (Assault weapons are the least likely kind of weapons to be used in the commission of a crime.) States will instead have the right to require an assault weapons permit if they are given on a “shall issue” basis. NON NEGOTIABLE Remove suppressors from the list of restricted title 3 items on the NFA. Remove short barreled rifles, short barreled shotguns, and AOWs from the list of restricted title 3 items on the NFA. (there is an actual class of weapons referred to as “any other weapons” which includes pistols with vertical foregrips) Repeal the Hughes amendment allowing newly manufactured machine guns after the 1986 cutoff date to be registered with the ATF for civilian ownership. Machine guns WILL stay as a highly restricted NFA item because it had an exceptional record of preventing machine guns from being used in crimes. (Something like only 1 or 2 crimes were committed with a legally registered machine gun in over 50+ years of its implementation?) Remove 922r compliance which bans the sale/transfer of many firearms on the basis of not being made out of enough parts which were manufactured by the USA. (Why is this even a thing?) Remove all instances of a “sporting purpose” clause which arbitrarily reclassifies 12 gauge shotguns as a destructive device. (Shotguns shouldn’t be restricted in the same class as explosive weapons and hand grenades.) Something needs to done about the affordability and constitutionality of appealing red flag law protection orders. A lot of people can’t afford to actually defend themselves/get fair legal representation in court after their guns are confiscated by a mere accusation. Right now the law is far too exploitable where in practice, the burden of proof rests on the accused to prove their innocence after they have already been punished. Also the police must be legally compelled to return people’s firearms if it is found the premise of a protection order was unjustified. There are a bunch of instances where the police straight up refuse to return confiscated firearms after the legal appeals went through and rescinded the protection order. It’s a horrible mess, which has already resulted in death. Unless politicians are prepared to meet at least 2 or 3 of these aforementioned compromises, I really don’t think we’ll see any successful reforms in firearms policies. Everyone on the pro gun side of the argument is so used to getting bitten by policies made in bad faith, that we’re really not willing to budge on anything until politicians start actually compromising with us.
Surely this isn't a uniquely American problem?
The culture about putting guns as inviolable status that must be protected at all cost in the 21st century is a problem as well. Then again it all comes down from the propaganda and the paranoia of "you must defend yourself, is kill or be killed".
These two blokes moved to America at least a year before they started working on this ad, and it’s part of their employment at McCann; they have also made ads for eg UNICEF. It’s not as if they are Buzzfeed-esque social media crusaders. But Australians do have to worry about the culture of gun violence in America, because it affects Australian families, too. It wasn’t a school shooting of course, but Justine Damond was an Australian living in America, and was shot in cold blood by a trigger-happy American police officer. And only American police are so trigger-happy, with the pervasiveness of gun violence culture likely being a strong factor. If this weren’t happening in America, but instead in some developing shithole, there would be a UN peacekeeping force on the ground sooner rather than later.
Im going to stop you there: No. Thats impossible. Not improbable, not "unlikely", not "difficult". Impossible. It will never happen. There are technically avenues that could be taken to do that but those will NEVER happen. Ever. In any of our lifetimes. And constantly arguing that this is the solution is the same as saying that we should actively do nothing because thats all it accomplishes.
It's not about guns or not it's about mental health. Always has been, always will be. I do think there should be licenses, background checks, and mandatory safety training when someone wishes to purchase a firearm, but banning them outright is never going to happen.
I would also redefine the "assault weapons" category, or just remove it/reclassify it, because defining it as weapons with detachable magazines, collapsible stocks, pistol grips, and other features is really asinine.
Because a lot of other countries are much worse off, and you don't hear about it because, quite frankly and unfortunately, nobody really seems to care. That's the reality of it.
Some governments just flat out lie when it comes to statistics. Mexico's president got called out by the rise in homicides. He was up front with them and told the media that his government wasn't cover up that shit. It's not a third world country but still relevant.
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