Mortars and Artillery - Rust

Just a thought I had watching Military channels. Why not add long range weapons, with no aim-assist? To elaborate, I mean essentially a rocket that is fired from the ground, and arcs further than the current shoulder-mounted rockets. Downside? You have to guestimate, aiming it towards your target, and setting the angle, fire and correct depending on how off your shot was. Players will be able to run in, deploy it, set the rotation and angle, load and fire. after corrections, they can just bombard the opposing structure as long as they aren't taken out by snipers, infantry, or counter-mortars. To summarize, compared to the rocket launcher. You trade mobility for range. and trade sights for consistency. i.e. first few shots are blind, but once dialed in, hammer the same spot constantly. Bonus, can arc over defenses. Mortars will be the portable version. Artillery will be the super-sized version. Costing a LOT more to build, taking up a large area, and probably costing 10 times the ammo (balancing needed) these monsters will drop shells (rockets) for MILES. I hear you now clicking respond to say "OP". Relax. again, there is no aim assist. you have to manually set the angle and rotation, fire a test shot (which is mega expensive) and correct from there. I believe this could provide a nice shift in the game. As your clan grows, and builds bigger bases, they become easier targets for artillery. It'll be a nice curve, as the bigger your base evolves, the harder it is to survive... Also, yes I'm aware that mortars are not rockets, they are shells propelled by an initial explosion, forcing them out the tube. I am also aware artillery are just Big Ass Guns, with explosive shells. or armor piercing, or whatever else you wanna load them with. BUT I figure it'd be easier for the game to treat them like modified rockets, instead of a full new system to calculate trajectories of shells, and create new exploding shells from scratch. Also, it'd be wise to leave the black-smoke trail, so the defenders can identify where the fire is coming from. Support? Thoughts? Criticism?

I like the idea of motors and artillery, but FP would make to too expensive and time consuming to be realistic for anyone under 10man group, so i'd probably never get to play with it

Since we can make explosives and firearms cannon should be no problem. A mortar is a form of cannon and should be rather easy to construct for someone capable of making a thompson

10/10 love it. This could make players specialize in a specific type of weaponry aka siege tech.

I like the idea, however I can also see that some will start to claim raiders are getting OP again, maybe some kind of anti rocket system could come in handy... we know we have turrets just around the corner, if they have a cam on them, they might as well be used upward against incoming rockets/shells.

I wouldn't mind seeing automated turrets like ARK has once electricity comes, actually. I think it would add a lot to the game.

[QUOTE=halfhand2012;48457936]Since we can make explosives and firearms cannon should be no problem. A mortar is a form of cannon and should be rather easy to construct for someone capable of making a thompson[/QUOTE] Not if it costed like 2,5K HQM metal :)

[QUOTE=maxelle123;48463371]Not if it costed like 2,5K HQM metal :)[/QUOTE] I doubt the mortar itself would cost that much. it's the projectiles that would be expensive. The mortar is literally a tube with a nail/pin welded in the bottom. you can support it on anything. no springs, no moving parts. it's the projectile that has all the intricate parts.... think about that... the projectile is more expensive to produce than the weapon that fires it... yea... [QUOTE=saxxoo;48463213]I like the idea, however I can also see that some will start to claim raiders are getting OP again, maybe some kind of anti rocket system could come in handy... we know we have turrets just around the corner, if they have a cam on them, they might as well be used upward against incoming rockets/shells.[/QUOTE] I was thinking that too, but i fear that gives too much power to large clans. See, i wanted this to be a tool to give a drawback to large bases. your lap of luxury will be sitting on a target field if you dont diversify your base, or put effort into seeking out threats. In a scenerio where one clan just bullies everyone, the smaller groups could bind together to build 1 or 2 artillery in secret, and surprise them with an ambush, due to their massive base footprint, less time and material is wasted on test shots. Anti-missile defenses render this pointless. as then a large group can easily build a safety net, and be a jerk to anyone, because no one can raid them. If you wanna stop the bombardment, you gotta take the fight to your attackers. either take aim with your own artillery to take them out, or mortar over the rocks to take out their staging area, and pull off a counter/revenge raid on your attackers. which should be obvious if the rounds leave that black rocket trail.

[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48464171]I doubt the mortar itself would cost that much. it's the projectiles that would be expensive. The mortar is literally a tube with a nail/pin welded in the bottom. you can support it on anything. no springs, no moving parts. it's the projectile that has all the intricate parts.... think about that... the projectile is more expensive to produce than the weapon that fires it... yea... I was thinking that too, but i fear that gives too much power to large clans. See, i wanted this to be a tool to give a drawback to large bases. your lap of luxury will be sitting on a target field if you dont diversify your base, or put effort into seeking out threats. In a scenerio where one clan just bullies everyone, the smaller groups could bind together to build 1 or 2 artillery in secret, and surprise them with an ambush, due to their massive base footprint, less time and material is wasted on test shots. Anti-missile defenses render this pointless. as then a large group can easily build a safety net, and be a jerk to anyone, because no one can raid them. If you wanna stop the bombardment, you gotta take the fight to your attackers. either take aim with your own artillery to take them out, or mortar over the rocks to take out their staging area, and pull off a counter/revenge raid on your attackers. which should be obvious if the rounds leave that black rocket trail.[/QUOTE] No matter what, the large clan will always be at an advantage, if attacked by artillery, they will fast be able to turn it into their own advantage, as they can easily send out a counter team to deal with the enemy, while still having a defending team at home. Or perhaps deploy their own several artilleries to counter the single/few enemy artillery.

[QUOTE=saxxoo;48464189]...they can easily send out a counter team to deal with the enemy, while still having a defending team at home. Or perhaps deploy their own several artilleries to counter the single/few enemy artillery.[/QUOTE] correct. BUT that is a lot to deal with. 1. you have to organize a team (lets say 5) to run over to the attacking artillery that's a good 2 miles away. they have to fight through tho opposition, or take a longer route around. 2. you have to aim your artillery while under fire. assuming they didnt get a lucky shot, and your artillery is in tact, they have the advantage of the eyes at the front lines, who can tell home base how to adjust to hit vital portions, while the defenders wont have eyes on target for another couple minutes. and a blind shot is harder, since the attacking base is much smaller. gotta drop it ON the artillery, without seeing where your shots land, unless you can physically spot your attacker. remember, arcs. 3. so yes. If a big clan gets first strike, they get an even bigger advantage. but 2 or three small clans who scrounge up an artillery each, can bombard from 3 locations. spreading the defenders too thin.

Just ask a Vietnam vet what a guy or two with a cheap ass mortar can do. It's hit and run tactics for the small guys and they are siege weapons for big clans. A mortar would make perfect sense for either. And making the. Stupid expensive defeats the purpose of having them in game at all

[QUOTE=halfhand2012;48464262]Just ask a Vietnam vet what a guy or two with a cheap ass mortar can do. It's hit and run tactics for the small guys and they are siege weapons for big clans. A mortar would make perfect sense for either. And making the. Stupid expensive defeats the purpose of having them in game at all[/QUOTE] Like anything, balancing of the damage v cost will come in time. Now artillery should be stupid expensive, needing a 5 man clan or more to effectively produce and use. As for mortars and rounds. I think the Ammo, should just be a bit stronger, and more expensive than the standard rocket. leaving rocketeers to fire-and-forget tactics, strategically taking out walls, while mortars would be better for bombardment. set up behind cover, fire round after round over a wall. Mortars can be hit-and-run weapons, BUT RPGs are more infamous for that. after firing, you are left with a tube with a button. fire,drop it, walk away like nothin happened...just not from a window. the back-burst will rebound off a wall, and burst your eardrums IRL.

The difference between mortars and RPG is range! Both are so so accurate but yes I agree the mortar would be nice for sitting behind a wall and dropping g rounds o. You neighbor or Uzi g it as a gorilla weapon. Pop two shot then pack up and run. Sneak over later to see if you had the range right and try again later

[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48464403]Like anything, balancing of the damage v cost will come in time. Now artillery should be stupid expensive, needing a 5 man clan or more to effectively produce and use. As for mortars and rounds. I think the Ammo, should just be a bit stronger, and more expensive than the standard rocket. leaving rocketeers to fire-and-forget tactics, strategically taking out walls, while mortars would be better for bombardment. set up behind cover, fire round after round over a wall. Mortars can be hit-and-run weapons, BUT RPGs are more infamous for that. after firing, you are left with a tube with a button. fire,drop it, walk away like nothin happened...just not from a window. the back-burst will rebound off a wall, and burst your eardrums IRL.[/QUOTE] I agree. Artillery needs to have a large cost associated with or every single base on the server will get raided at super long range within the first few days of the wipe cycle. I could see the mortar tube costing ~80 HQ metal 1K wood some amount of cloth and metal frags. The ammo should be more costly than rocks (lets say 20 explosives & 10HQ ect..) but do 2.2x the damage of a normal rocket. (Maybe extended AOE damage) *** Another ammo type could be created as a tracer round to help dial in the weapon @ a cheaper cost*** ***Maybe this could also function as a flair for night raids? (I envision the mortar as being a stationary deployable that a player can tweak to "dial in" to adjust its aim. This would be a balancing function other wise a team of 3 mortars could just fire, move, fire, move around a base and the defenders would be unable to locate them at great range. )

The mechanics of the shells flight needs to be such that a general location should be detectable from the target location. Either give it a slow flight speed or a con trail so that the people being bombed have some idea where the threat is coming from. Also the damage should have a greater AOE but maybe a bit less damage than a rocket. The mortar is going to be a repeated fire weapon for most effective siege style raids so the constant pounding would be devastating if the damage was too high and a large AOE. artillery on the other hand should be devastating.

[QUOTE=halfhand2012;48465140]The mechanics of the shells flight needs to be such that a general location should be detectable from the target location. Either give it a slow flight speed or a con trail so that the people being bombed have some idea where the threat is coming from. Also the damage should have a greater AOE but maybe a bit less damage than a rocket. The mortar is going to be a repeated fire weapon for most effective siege style raids so the constant pounding would be devastating if the damage was too high and a large AOE. artillery on the other hand should be devastating.[/QUOTE] That is why i suggested the shells should just be modified rockets, so it keeps the trail, and explosive script (also easier if they have to modify the line-of-sight for explosions again, since it would affect both rockets and artillery) and just modify the arc, and such. also, I'm thinking near opposite. I do want the weapon deployable, so it can consistently fire on the same spot. In that respect, i would actually prefer Less radius, and more power. Compared to a rocket launcher, The rocket has the freedom to fire, then hide, then fire elsewhere. Like real life, the golden rule is Fire-and-Forget. you shoot and run before your opponent knows where you are. and in game, you can aim it anywhere with a little practice. mortars would be the opposite. somewhere where you set up, dial it in, bombard. If someone is in a window, you can't just suddenly point-and-shoot. you gotta readjust, drop it, and hope it hits your target. you gotta give a little incentive to stand there almost useless against personnel (unless you are dropping your shots as they run out the front door) but i would hope to build cheap launchers, that one could lay down a few, aim, and run from one to the other firing volleys of shells. because that is what they are made for. quantity.

Agreed but I also don't think they should be perminant fixtures once deployed. i have no problem with it taking some time to dismantle but you should be able to deploy the mortar for a couple rounds the. Pack up and move. I am all about realism 

Great idea. Mortars are dirt cheap, and deadly when in the hands of an expert. Basically a PVC pipe on a bi-pod. Artillery should be more expensive because they are more sophisticated weapons and larger. Also implementing the new system should be extremely easy since this is just basic parabolic shapes. on the mortar you have a quarter circle with degree markings so you can move it degrees at a time, while the artillery has a 360 degree turning with the same quarter circle as the mortar.

In all reality the mortar and artillery could be the same thing. I'd expect them to just lump it into one object and call it a day.

[QUOTE=BrandonAest;48468279]In all reality the mortar and artillery could be the same thing. I'd expect them to just lump it into one object and call it a day.[/QUOTE] In what reality is a small tube that you drop a bomb, with a small explosive at its base to propel the payload to its target, the same as a massive structure with a rifled barrel, tracks for rotation and elevation, possibly a gunners seat, that fires a proper shell ? they both arc, meant to "drop" on an enemy location, but they load and fire differently, one has significantly more range, and the actual artillery cost infinitely more than cheap mortar tubes.

Hate to interrupt your good ol boy military discussion but... This is a survival game. This is not a war game. We have some tech, yes...but that should be the VERY MOST!

[QUOTE=lordrushx1;48471252]Hate to interrupt your good ol boy military discussion but... This is a survival game. This is not a war game. We have some tech, yes...but that should be the VERY MOST![/QUOTE] Well, actually, forming clans has become nearly essential on official servers, leading to Raids becoming a staple of gameplay. that is why raid towers became a thing, ladders were added, along with c-4, ect. and with the vehicles and turrets that are in the works, yea, war will be a thing. because your biggest threat isnt the enviroment. it's the players... seriously... play a PVE server... so easy to survive it's boring at times.

Garry mentioned that players want more PVE elements added to the game.

[QUOTE=n7m6e7;48474240]Well, actually, forming clans has become nearly essential on official servers, leading to Raids becoming a staple of gameplay. that is why raid towers became a thing, ladders were added, along with c-4, ect. and with the vehicles and turrets that are in the works, yea, war will be a thing. because your biggest threat isnt the enviroment. it's the players... seriously... play a PVE server... so easy to survive it's boring at times.[/QUOTE] Official Servers area a fraction of a % of what is available to play on. And not everyone is in a clan. I for one have always been solo and will continue to be. Raid towers were "originally" built to combat tool cupboards. You built a taller tower than the base being raided then you added floor panels to attempt to get as close as you could to the top of the opposing base in order to jump atop. C4 has been in Rust since the beginning of Legacy. Vehicles have been in the possibility discussion for at least the same as C4. Is it here? Turrets, another topic of discussion but has yet to see the light of day but the topic has been around since early days legacy. Sorry man, the answers you gave were completely not valid nor did it make a base for any argument to the OP.