Public chat on official servers is toxic. For example, the racist hatred towards Korean players on the Facepunch Sydney server yesterday was appalling. Any objections are howled down in a torrent of abuse. So bear with me and consider this. Should public chat be disabled? Players could meet using voice and organise through Steam chat, ts etc. I can make a list of objections to the idea also but in the end Public chat is broken. The racist, sexist and homophobic views and abuse would get you arrested in any other 'public' place. They go way beyond the usual 'gay' and 'yo mama' humour. Facepunch by providing the forum is unwittingly tolerating behaviour way beyond community standards without moderation and for reasons I understand. The only practical answer is to either tolerate/accept it or disable the forum. I Am not exaggerating. Pull the chat log and see. I don't think any other public forum would tolerate what happens. I was ashamed to be Australian last night with the treatment of the Korean players.
So I understand your unhappy with their remarks but words are simply that just words. You are able to turn off public chat within the settings built into rust, so if you feel uncomfortable with their conversation you can remove yourself from it.
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49581719]So I understand your unhappy with their remarks but words are simply that just words. You are able to turn off public chat within the settings built into rust, so if you feel uncomfortable with their conversation you can remove yourself from it.[/QUOTE]
Your answer to aggressive racism in public chat is to ignore it because words are just words. Here are some of the words from yesterday: Chink, boat, kill, cunt. But words are just words. Get over it, salty much..... What you ignore you accept.
Are you new to the internet? The global chats are nothing out of the ordinary as far as global chats go, sure they get a bit racist a times but it's also a place where noobs get help, friendships are made and community is built. If it's disabled the game will lose a lot of the connection you have towards other players on the server.
Addressing the first part, no. My first game was Pong in 1978 and have been online since Windows 3.11. I agree with all the points you make in the second part. They would be in the list of reasons against, which I mentioned. It does not however justify tolerating extremely toxic public chat behaviour. It is not "a bit" of a problem. If you need another example, from a Community server Rustralasia, one player said to a female player [yes, she really was a female] that he was going to rape her to death. My daughter [18] also played Rust for a while but gave up because of the harassment. I am a white, male, I understand that most white male gamers think the above is 'humour', that it doesn't happen a lot and is acceptable. It is not. I have played 2200 hours of Rust and love the game. I have played on 5 public servers and 3 community servers. The problem is widespread. I am raising a 'rant' idea. I doubt one person will agree with me. I know most white male players will not think it is a problem. It is, but I know it will not change because the community doesn't want it to.
[QUOTE=Ruztzilla;49581780]Your answer to aggressive racism in public chat is to ignore it because words are just words. Here are some of the words from yesterday: Chink, boat, kill, cunt. But words are just words. Get over it, salty much..... What you ignore you accept.[/QUOTE]
All i'm saying is we need to learn to be less sensitive, we live in a ass backwards black and white kindergarten world, we've all grown so politically correct and get so offended when someone says a "bad" word. You are the only one that gives those words meaning by being so offended. You give definition to those words when you react negatively toward them. If no one cared why would anyone bother to say them?
I'm going to quote a wise man
"There’s no excuse for domestic violence." It sounds like a challenge. I mean, does everything have to be so black-and-white in this kindergarten country of ours? What if you come home from a long day at work and your wife has drowned two of your kids - she’s about to dunk the third one. Can you run over and pop her then? "Unfortunately no, there’s no excuse. You’re going to have to let her drown that third one."
~ Daniel Tosh
NSFW
You're right, you have convinced me. Silly politically correct me. I should have thought of this before. If we stop extreme abuse on Rust chat my wife might drown my kids. I should punch her now as a deterrent? Anyway going to play Rust and forget about our black and white correct world. Must tell those chinks to get off my fucking server or I'll kill them and that bitch who griefed me, tell her she will get the raping she deserves. If they don't like it 'salty'. Just using humour bitch. Thank you for setting me straight CobainsDomain. Fuck it, that's what games are like, right. Thanks Obama for ruining gaming for white boys.
[QUOTE=Ruztzilla;49581962]NSFW
You're right, you have convinced me. Silly politically correct me. I should have thought of this before. If we stop extreme abuse on Rust chat my wife might drown my kids. I should punch her now as a deterrent? Anyway going to play Rust and forget about our black and white correct world. Must tell those chinks to get off my fucking server or I'll kill them and that bitch who griefed me, tell her she will get the raping she deserves. If they don't like it 'salty'. Just using humour bitch. Thank you for setting me straight CobainsDomain. Fuck it, that's what games are like, right. Thanks Obama for ruining gaming for white boys.[/QUOTE]
No problem man, glad it hit home. anytime you need advice were always here to help.
People are assholes when they get to hide behind computer screens.
I don't think this should be moderated by anyone other than the server admin(s).
[QUOTE='[Jake];49582269']People are assholes when they get to hide behind computer screens.
I don't think this should be moderated by anyone other than the server admin(s).[/QUOTE]
There ya go, if the server admin wants to moderate it thats his/her prerogative, people are assholes behind computer screens but the ones that talk the most shit are the ones that are least confident IRL. While they may curse or threaten honestly what are they really going to do beyond calling you names.
Ruztzilla is simply saying that toxic behaviour towards other players would best be moderated against on official servers; same as calling other users a nigger on this forum would get you banned. Nobody would ignore it here as 'just a part of the internet'.
There are two options:
Moderate the official servers: They're not going to do that yet, for whatever reasons of theirs.
Disable global chat so that users can only talk to others nearby each other: This limits mob shitposting mentality and is more realistic gameplay besides. Clans and such would collaborate over steam or even a new friends-chat activated by a new button bind.
And of course option three where everyone pretends legit racists are not an issue.
[QUOTE=bitches;49582334]Ruztzilla is simply saying that toxic behaviour towards other players would best be moderated against on official servers; same as calling other users a nigger on this forum would get you banned. Nobody would ignore it here as 'just a part of the internet'.
There are two options:
Moderate the official servers: They're not going to do that yet, for whatever reasons of theirs.
Disable global chat so that users can only talk to others nearby each other: This limits mob shitposting mentality and is more realistic gameplay besides. Clans and such would collaborate over steam or even a new friends-chat activated by a new button bind.
And of course option three where everyone pretends legit racists are not an issue.[/QUOTE]
Or option four just simply don't let it bother you. They are words, words are a man made a defined by people. I am by no means advocating or embracing what these people are saying, my point is simply this,
Words only have as much power as you give to them. The definition of words change constantly depending on peoples perspective and our view of them as a society. If you want to eliminate the power of these words and the beliefs of the people presenting them simply don't let it bother you and you've removed their power.
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49582350]Or option four just simply don't let it bother you. They are words, words are a man made a defined by people. I am by no means advocating or embracing what these people are saying, my point is simply this,
Words only have as much power as you give to them. The definition of words change constantly depending on peoples perspective and our view of them as a society. If you want to eliminate the power of these words and the beliefs of the people presenting them simply don't let it bother you and you've removed their power.[/QUOTE]
This isn't about the semantics, and if you read my post more thoroughly you'd see I already responded to that.
The problem is that when toxic players join a server in abundance they will gang up together and spam the chat with racist garbage. Nothing of use comes from the chatbox because the dominant conversation is shitposting. This isn't a matter of censorship, it's about maintaining a good server.
You can't justify it in the game unless you can also justify not banning users from making posts on facepunch.
[QUOTE=bitches;49582356]This isn't about the semantics, and if you read my post more thoroughly you'd see I already responded to that.
The problem is that when toxic players join a server in abundance they will gang up together and spam the chat with racist garbage. Nothing of use comes from the chatbox because the dominant conversation is shitposting. This isn't a matter of censorship, it's about maintaining a good server.
You can't justify it in the game unless you can also justify not banning users from making posts on facepunch.[/QUOTE]
I read your post and I can clearly see this is something you feel very passionate about. I did not ignore nor disregard your comments or your feelings. How does a user, trolling, posting obscene material affect the healthiness of a server other than it causes you to react emotionally?
Is it about you being unable to communicate with your teammates?
The game does show nudity so I would hope no children are playing so it should only be adults in the server.
Why is it so important to prevent them from saying what they want? yes its offensive, yes it's ignorant but why is it so difficult to just accept the fact that your a better more intelligent person. How exactly does it effect the gameplay itself is the point i'm missing i suppose.
Yes, the chat is toxic and often full of brain-melting stupidity. No, disabling chat is probably not the answer, for a variety of reasons that include "it's the primary source of newbie questions". Community server admins generally do a fair job of policing the worst chat abuses, but the official servers don't share the same level of active moderation. If they begin to receive a higher level of administrative attention, cleaning up the chat should be a distant fourth behind "getting rid of obvious hackers/glitches", "updating the server within 2 days of code push".
Long term, a game with free-drawable signs and open chat is simply going to require constant moderation to reign in the cretins that make up the playerbase. If you'll excuse the crude analogy.... as long as official servers are cesspools of hacking, or the servers are crashing/bouncing for days without anyone upstairs noticing, complaining about the contents of chat is like condemning ISIS for destroying a renowned historical landmark while they're still busy burying the villagers they raped and massacred last week.
[QUOTE=Murdo;49582384]Yes, the chat is toxic and often full of brain-melting stupidity. No, disabling chat is probably not the answer, for a variety of reasons that include "it's the primary source of newbie questions". Community server admins generally do a fair job of policing the worst chat abuses, but the official servers don't share the same level of active moderation. If they begin to receive a higher level of administrative attention, cleaning up the chat should be a distant fourth behind "getting rid of obvious hackers/glitches", "updating the server within 2 days of code push".
Long term, a game with free-drawable signs and open chat is simply going to require constant moderation to reign in the cretins that make up the playerbase. If you'll excuse the crude analogy.... as long as official servers are cesspools of hacking, or the servers are crashing/bouncing for days without anyone upstairs noticing, complaining about the contents of chat is like condemning ISIS for destroying a renowned historical landmark while they're still busy burying the villagers they raped and massacred last week.[/QUOTE]
You kinda nailed the sad truth here. Stay away from official servers.
There is no excuse for the amount of intolerable excrement that is posted to sidechat in these servers, not to mention it's where every hacker tries out their new tricks. Until FP decide to come up with a policy to police the neonazi spam, official servers will stay the first stepping stone of enjoying rust... It's the first place you try out, but you certainly move on to better places.
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49582382]I read your post and I can clearly see this is something you feel very passionate about. I did not ignore nor disregard your comments or your feelings. How does a user, trolling, posting obscene material affect the healthiness of a server other than it causes you to react emotionally?
Is it about you being unable to communicate with your teammates?
The game does show nudity so I would hope no children are playing so it should only be adults in the server.
Why is it so important to prevent them from saying what they want? yes its offensive, yes it's ignorant but why is it so difficult to just accept the fact that your a better more intelligent person. How exactly does it effect the gameplay itself is the point i'm missing i suppose.[/QUOTE]
Apathy isn't an answer. I ask again, why is it okay to be racist in a game session and not on this forum? Should it not be bannable here?
As much as a comment may had disturbed you one thing it will also do is enlighten you. I mean consider this personally i would not want to come off as a racist so in seeing these comments i avoid helping or teaming up with them. On the flip side many new players may not put as much weight on the subject so it is important to team up and assist these people as to keep them from becomming apart of the problem. Now wile i agree that a child or young adult may not need to be subjected to this i do believe that any public form of expression is going to present them with such gross idiotic behavior. Personally i teach my kids that slurs and race remarks are both in poor taste and a symbol of a lack of intelligence. Now lets view another side of this game. What wieght can you hold to a poor choice of conversation to the fact that you have chopped up human remains just to develop low grade fuel. Or that you hunted down another human being just for sport. So please understand that even crude joking in the right context is a minor offence compared to the game play itself.
[QUOTE=bitches;49582454]Apathy isn't an answer. I ask again, why is it okay to be racist in a game session and not on this forum? Should it not be bannable here?[/QUOTE]
Your never going to change an ignorant person, be definition they are lacking knowledge or awareness in general; they are uneducated or unsophisticated. So attempting to speak rationally and logically to such a person is not only fruitless but a complete waste of energy. To "prevent" someones freedom of speech regardless of how vulgar or degrading it may be is wrong, censorship is quite the slippery slope and everyone has their own definition of "vulgar" let them spout their ignorant rederick, every illiterate word they spout is simply another example to an intelligent individual that their words really mean nothing at all..
No defense is 100% and this goes for the prevention of ignorance, if there were a perfect defense for ignorance there would be no war, famine or wait for it.... racism.
I get what your saying I do and I've read each and every one of your posts now i'm asking you to carefully read mine. What exactly is it you expect anyone to do about this matter? what is your reasonable expectation that someone won't find a work around to spout their ignorant, racist rants?
Bottom line, while you state apathy in this situation is a negative route, truth be told it's the only route. The truth is you cannot change an ignorant person because by definition they cannot grasp it, therefore as an enlightened individual, as the intelligent and free think person you are, it is up to you to control yourself, your emotional response and quite simply put be the bigger person. Apathy is most certainly the answer, why care about something you literally by definition cannot change.
Just simply turn the other cheek and take immense appreciation in the fact you know your a more morale and enlightened human being.
[QUOTE=CobainsDomain;49582559]Your never going to change an ignorant person, be definition they are lacking knowledge or awareness in general; they are uneducated or unsophisticated. So attempting to speak rationally and logically to such a person is not only fruitless but a complete waste of energy. To "prevent" someones freedom of speech regardless of how vulgar or degrading it may be is wrong, censorship is quite the slippery slope and everyone has their own definition of "vulgar" let them spout their ignorant rederick, every illiterate word they spout is simply another example to an intelligent individual that their words really mean nothing at all..
No defense is 100% and this goes for the prevention ignorance, if there were a perfect defense for ignorance there would be no war, famine or wait for it.... racism.
I get what your saying I do and I've read each and every one of your posts now i'm asking you to carefully read mine. What exactly is it you expect anyone to do about this matter? what is your reasonable expectation that someone won't find a work around to spout their ignorant, racist rants?
Bottom line, while you state apathy in this situation is a negative route, truth be told it's the only route. The truth is you cannot change an ignorant person because by definition they cannot grasp it, therefore as an enlightened individual, as the intelligent and free think person you are, it is up to you to control yourself, your emotional response and quite simply put be the bigger person. Apathy is most certainly the answer, why care about something you literally by definition cannot change.
Just simply turn the other cheek and take immense appreciate in the fact you know your a more morale and enlightened human being.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying that increased moderation presence on the official servers would benefit those servers. I didn't say anyone could enlighten a shitposter. You still didn't answer my question; should racism be allowed on this forum because of "free speech"?
Free speech is about not censoring ideas over a culture as a government. It has nothing at all to do with enforcing social conduct and respectable environments in your own video game. Free speech isn't an excuse to have no consequences for your actions.
cobain, i agree that we need to have a degree of thickened skin about these things, especially since, yes, words only have the power we give them. also, players can turn off local chat if the flood of shit offends them; and it's probably more effective than trying to make the trolls see reason, given that any kind of rational response is seen as being salty.
that said, moderation is required to make the server a safer place; players will leave if they feel racially vilified, harrassed or otherwise tormented beyond the norm of the game. and this happening on multiple servers is a problem with the quality of playerbase, and the lack of punishment on official servers. in general, a well admin'd server will ban players for being assholes. the official servers currently have minimal to no admin care, and most of those players learn that it is acceptable to be a racist prick provided it is against the minority.
[QUOTE=bitches;49582575]I'm saying that increased moderation presence on the official servers would benefit those servers. I didn't say anyone could enlighten a shitposter. You still didn't answer my question; should racism be allowed on this forum because of "free speech"?
Free speech is about not censoring ideas over a culture as a government. It has nothing at all to do with enforcing social conduct and respectable environments in your own video game. Free speech isn't an excuse to have no consequences for your actions.[/QUOTE]
I agree with this but it would depend on the use if it were a direct attack on someone with intent to discredit or shame then i say its appropriate to take certain measures (ie short term ban depending on the offence) having a french heritage i would not be upset if some one made a comment like (those raiders fought like the french... straight for the hills) but making a comment like hes french so he cant be trusted in a raid is reasion for a form of action. Yes i know its a soft example but hopefully my point is understood.
[QUOTE=bitches;49582575]I'm saying that increased moderation presence on the official servers would benefit those servers. I didn't say anyone could enlighten a shitposter. You still didn't answer my question; should racism be allowed on this forum because of "free speech"?
Free speech is about not censoring ideas over a culture as a government. It has nothing at all to do with enforcing social conduct and respectable environments in your own video game. Free speech isn't an excuse to have no consequences for your actions.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough so to answer your question, different conversations deserve different venues. With respect to your question I have a few points of view.
1. This particular sub-section of the forum is dedicated to a specific subject; therefore in the interest of ensuring productivity random posts of ideology should most certainly not be allowed. However, there is a general discussion forum in which users can post randomly in which I feel that would be the proper venue.
2. This forum does not perform any kind of age related validation, where as the purchase of the game in relation to it's rating indicates one, that you are either of age to make such a purchase or two that you are an adult making such a purchase with the understanding that this game contains mature content. Obviously this forum could and is most likely harboring individuals that are below the age of consent. However as long as this is clearly stated in a user agreement the views of an individual have no affect/reflection on the developers views and/or operation of this forum I don’t really see a problem you don’t have to read a thread you do not wish to.
3. It is up to the creator of the forum to decide what they do/do not want on their forums and to cater to their specific audience, regardless of whether I or any other "individual" agrees/disagrees.
So to answer your question quite simply put I would have to say I’m apathetic to matter. It really depends on the circumstances, if this forum is catered to adult players, if this forum clearly states within it's user agreement that it does not support or embrace any views submitted, then what’s the harm? You'll see a few extra threads in the general section that you would simply ignore anyway.
There is also a question that I’ve posed to you and have yet to receive a response.
How exactly does the word choice of individual players in a public forum effect the actual gameplay?
Is there not an option to disable said public forum within game making it a conscious choice to participate?
and are there not other means in which to communicate with your teammates i.e. Steam/Skype/Team Speak that are not only more advantageous to the gameplay itself but allow you to regulate what type of conversation and/or language you would prefer?
I respect your opinion though I do not agree, simply because I do not agree with your opinion does not mean by any reasoning you should not be allowed to express it. You make valid points however by the tone of your text you clearly see this as an emotional subject therefore impacting rational thought. If you feel this is necessary or right by all means speak your mind, I simply do not agree.
Facepunch need to moderate the public chat or they are accepting that threats to kill and rape are acceptable on their official servers. Public chat should be disabled until they moderate the official servers.
[QUOTE=Ruztzilla;49583271]Facepunch need to moderate the public chat or they are accepting that threats to kill and rape are acceptable on their official servers. Public chat should be disabled until they moderate the official servers.[/QUOTE]
I agree.
The servers are owned by a private company and presented as a service publicly available. I suggest you put your concerns in writing to the server hosts and ask them about their policies regarding hate speech. As a registered business they have obligations to provide or aim to provide a hate free environment.
People think this is a joke because the Internet is largely taken for granted as an open speech forum, times are changing though.
I play Australia official, I've had chat disabled after my first 5 minutes. It's filth.
[QUOTE=SniperVillan;49583430]I agree.
The servers are owned by a private company and presented as a service publicly available. I suggest you put your concerns in writing to the server hosts and ask them about their policies regarding hate speech. As a registered business they have obligations to provide or aim to provide a hate free environment.
People think this is a joke because the Internet is largely taken for granted as an open speech forum, times are changing though.
I play Australia official, I've had chat disabled after my first 5 minutes. It's filth.[/QUOTE]
Yes, in Australia at least, there is no 'freedom' to vilify or threaten in the name of free speech. The Sydney server is offered as an official Facepunch server and they are at least tolerating threats and vilification. I understand it is a small company struggling to build an alpha game that is a run away success. I also grew up gaming and know full well that the behaviours are widely accepted, however what I read yesterday went beyond that. It was toxic and all the arguments [like how freedom excuses domestic violence because my wife might drown the kids [wtf]] will not convince me that it is ok.
Your argument is invalid, players are still going to create signs saying "Nigger".
:cry: This is the internets, please don't censor it... It's the last place free speech still exists.
It's up to admins to police their servers and let it be known what's acceptable and not acceptable in chat or what you place on signs in the world for all to see. Facepunch are not responsible for how people use the chat in games. That's up to server admins and moderators to ensure rules are enforced. If you're on an official server, they have no moderation. Everyone knows that. And if that's where you choose to play, then that's on you. You're making a conscious choice to swim in the sewers when there are a lot of clean pools available. But then you're offended by the smell in the sewers and you demand the sewer be cleaned up.
Seriously, if you go to a server and don't like the behaviour, go to another fucking server where things are more to your liking. You chose that server. You're not happy with it and expect Facepunch to change the game for everyone, even those that don't abuse the chat, because you're offended by what some immature retards are doing on a particular server. You can fix this problem yourself. But instead you'd rather just be a victim and call for someone to save you. Grow some balls, get a life and take matter in your own hands.
To be clear, I'm not condoning that type of behaviour and it's not allowed on the server I admin. People will first get a warning and then get their asses banned if they continue.
[QUOTE=Crunchmeister;49584345]It's up to admins to police their servers and let it be known what's acceptable and not acceptable in chat or what you place on signs in the world for all to see. Facepunch are not responsible for how people use the chat in games. That's up to server admins and moderators to ensure rules are enforced. If you're on an official server, they have no moderation. Everyone knows that. And if that's where you choose to play, then that's on you. You're making a conscious choice to swim in the sewers when there are a lot of clean pools available. But then you're offended by the smell in the sewers and you demand the sewer be cleaned up.
Seriously, if you go to a server and don't like the behaviour, go to another fucking server where things are more to your liking. You chose that server. You're not happy with it and expect Facepunch to change the game for everyone, even those that don't abuse the chat, because you're offended by what some immature retards are doing on a particular server. You can fix this problem yourself. But instead you'd rather just be a victim and call for someone to save you. Grow some balls, get a life and take matter in your own hands.
To be clear, I'm not condoning that type of behaviour and it's not allowed on the server I admin. People will first get a warning and then get their asses banned if they continue.[/QUOTE]
One thing I would like to point out is all these people who are so concerned with the content of a chat forum, are also playing a game where nudity and dismemberment are not only an feature but essentially a large portion of the game. Within a graphic game such as rust how can you not expect the communication to at least be equally as graphic.
I'd like to tell people to just stop caring what others say you know that whole concept we learned grade school, but earlier I spoke in my last post regarding lacking knowledge or awareness in general; uneducated or unsophisticated and how such an individual cannot be changed, which is why I'm going to take my own advice here and say good luck with the debate ;)
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