The new playrust.com poll about admin abuse is irrelevant. - Rust

Most of the rust community is a player, the minority is an admin. The players will vote on not disabling admin item spawn message. The admins will vote on yes. It think that it is not quite right. I agree that players have to be able determine whether the admin is abusing everyone else on his own server for the admins make the body of most of the servers in rust but they should not be stripped of having a little privacy either. This vote is a yes or no while it should be a both. Lets make it an option, turned on as a default. Admins can turn it off but the server browser will get an option to browse by a honesty measure, turned off by default. Honesty measure includes whether are these anti-abuse options on or off, and whether players give votes to the server. A player can vote and remove that vote, but not ever downvote preventing that people may ruin that measure by doing so. In the end, servers without abuse prevention may be sorted out but may still get a chance from players who played on it. Everyone can play and host whatever he desires and nobody will be stripped or forcefully clothed of anything.

I agree, it's definitely not a fair vote. I'm actually surprised the votes to remove it are as high as they are.

personally i couldn't give a damn if the admins spawn things, so at least 1 player is voting yes to removing the messages.

As admin I have voted for to stay...

[QUOTE=mrknifey;49583201]personally i couldn't give a damn if the admins spawn things, so at least 1 player is voting yes to removing the messages.[/QUOTE] I vote yes too, but not because I dont give damn. It hink that this feature should be either implemented correctly or not at all. It is still not that fair but we atleast wont have it in a bad way.

The whole point is that vanilla servers are the "honest mature" servers. Admins can turn it off using a mod, that will put them in the modded tab. So seems like it works how you want it?

I said in my other post that I think a better way to fix this issue would be to announce to the server if/when a player is killed using a weapons that was spawned in by the admin. That way server owners can still experiment in privacy. But players will still know the second an admin starts to actually "abuse" that power.

But server owners will still be able to spawn in a million wood/rock/hqm and do whatever they want. Seems like this way works without any drawbacks. If you want to test set the max player count to 1 and join.

[QUOTE=Stewie.D;49583319]I said in my other post that I think a better way to fix this issue would be to announce to the server if/when a player is killed using a weapons that was spawned in by the admin. That way server owners can still experiment in privacy. But players will still know the second an admin starts to actually "abuse" that power.[/QUOTE] What about weapons crafted by resources spawned by the admin? Should walls created by those glow bright red? What if someone raided an admin base or happened upon a pile of resources spawned by an admin, will all the weapons crafted by that spam the chat as well? Ideas like this can very quickly become very convoluted, hard to implement and easy to find ways around when you can just go for a much simpler catchall solution. I'd much prefer how it currently is...I haven't seen much of an issue with everyone crying abuse for a hammer spawn aside from one or two arsey people who like to be pedantic about it, but everyone just tells them to shut up / find another server if they don't like it. The rest of the 'ABUUUUUSE' people just say it as a joke because of the people that actually take it seriously. It's a good step towards building trust on a server as well...Most servers suffer from an admin shortage, but the problem is me and I can imagine a lot of other people are not comfortable at all with the idea of an admin also being an active player on the server because there will always be that suspicion that they cheekily spawn stuff for themselves or are able to case places they want to raid, and owners are also weary of getting any new admins because they could easily destroy the server or it's reputation if they start abusing.

I don't totally disagree with the spawn announcement feature. I know it's an issue. I just think it needs refining. For example if I spawned a ton of building materials to try out some stability ideas only to then remove it all when I'm done, I don't see that as abuse. But if I spawn a gun and go on a rampage, that is abuse. Say I spawn the materials whilst people are online, they see it. They think I'm building a castle, they don't know I've removed it. Their immediate thought is "admin abuse". But I spawn an assault rifle whilst everyone's offline, then go on a rampage. No one saw it, so no one thinks anything on it. But if you were to alert the server when someone was hit by a spawned weapon, now the whole server has physical proof of admin abuse.

[QUOTE=Stewie.D;49583738]I don't totally disagree with the spawn announcement feature. I know it's an issue. I just think it needs refining. For example if I spawned a ton of building materials to try out some stability ideas only to then remove it all when I'm done, I don't see that as abuse. But if I spawn a gun and go on a rampage, that is abuse.[/QUOTE] I guess part of the issue here is that what some admins define as abuse is different to players. I wouldn't be too happy with seeing admins spawning tons of resources even if it was 'just to test stuff'...If I wanted to test something, I would have to either go and farm the resources myself and do it, join a modded server or start my local server, so why should I find it OK for an admin player to be able to do it without any of the effort? Even if they remove it afterwards they are still bypassing all of the effort any other player on the server would have to go through to do it. I don't speak for everyone but I would prefer to only play on servers where admin powers are used for administration only, rather than for admins to help people then mess around as they please on the side.

.. and Cushie you make some very good points. Maybe anything spawned or built from spawned materials should all be "marked" in some way. The thing is, my server only has about 7 active players .. What's to stop me spawning a bunch of materials and weapons whilst everyone's offline then using them when they're online? .. No ones any wiser. I'd rather be told when an admin actually uses a spawned item for their advantage. I don't necessarily think it needs to be taken out. I just think it needs some refining. Edit: Sorry trying to catch up. The issue is that without going onto a server there is NO way to just "test" stuff, there's no single player or creative mode etc. This is the sole reason I bought a server. It even says that in the description. I'm paying for it so why shouldn't I be able to use it in that way?

[QUOTE=Stewie.D;49583771] The issue is that without going onto a server there is NO way to just "test" stuff, there's no single player or creative mode etc. This is the sole reason I bought a server. It even says that in the description. I'm paying for it so why shouldn't I be able to use it in that way?[/QUOTE] You can use it how you like, but why can't you just explain this to the people that do play (eg that its in description, you bought it for testing blah blah, if they aren't find with it then they can just find a different server if need be), better yet why not just password it? You can use your server any way you please, but whether or not its somewhere players want to play is another case. Also its possible to install said mod to remove the spawning messages, though that gets you on the modded tab (But if its just for testing then why not?)

Like I said I have put it in the description so anyone playing on the server should be aware that I do occasionally use it for testing. But also like I said, what if I spawned a load of weapons whilst everyone's offline, gave them to a few mates and went on a mass raid? No one knows I spawned it. The current announcement system doesn't fix that. I'm not saying remove it. But alerting players when someone is killed by a spawned weapon is a much more sure fire way of identifying "abuse". Guns and inventory items should also have a little icon or something on it to show that it was spawned in. And as far as I'm aware it's not yet possible to password without mods .. I'm not using mods .. It's a vanilla server :)

I've tried, and I still can't get upset over this. The *only* way this gets annoying is when the chat gets spammed, and that's only mildly annoying at worst. player1: ok meet me by the sphere SERVER admin gave admin 1000000 wood SERVER admin gave admin 1000000 stone SERVER admin gave admin 1 wooden hammer SERVER admin gave admin 1 building plan SERVER admin gave admin 1 tool cupboard SERVER admin gave admin 9 large wooden box player2: where are you now? SERVER admin gave admin 1 salvaged shelves SERVER admin gave admin 1 large wooden sign SERVER admin gave admin 1 huge wooden sign SERVER admin gave admin 1000000 metal fragments SERVER admin gave admin 1 wooden bow player2: wait where are we meeting again SERVER admin gave admin 32 wooden arrows SERVER admin gave admin 20 cooked wolf meat SERVER admin gave admin 1 large medical kit SERVER admin gave admin 3 metal window bars player1: what SERVER admin gave admin 1 campfire SERVER admin gave admin 3 furnace SERVER admin gave admin 1 large furnace player2: where are we meeting SERVER admin gave admin 3 armored doors SERVER admin gave admin 3 code locks On the flip side, if you see SERVER admin gave player3 1000 timed explosive charge ... you know you're on a shit server and it's time to find a new one.

[QUOTE=garry;49583639]But server owners will still be able to spawn in a million wood/rock/hqm and do whatever they want. Seems like this way works without any drawbacks. If you want to test set the max player count to 1 and join.[/QUOTE] Surely you knew the response the community would have to the poll, why even bother posting it?

I would say even that the admin character should be highlighted, for me an admin must not play in their server. I liked very much when the admin was female.

I think admins should be forced to wear an engineer/technician suit of some kind.

[QUOTE=Nero_ink;49583938]I would say even that the admin character should be highlighted, for me an admin must not play in their server. I liked very much when the admin was female.[/QUOTE] How does making them standout help anyone?

[QUOTE=cani;49583970]How does making them standout help anyone?[/QUOTE] People won't waste bullets on godmoded players. People won't be confused whether or not a player is no clipping via game modification. People won't be freaked out when an admin randomly shows up in their base. Lots more reasons, shall not insult your intelligence any more.

The admin should not play on their server? .. Good idea .. Add that .. I'll be closing my server. Along with a heck of a lot of others. Why pay for something I can't even use? :smug:

And why you pay for? For take advantage? I suspect that a good amount of server owners pay only for that. We pay for 2 rust servers, 9 TF2 servers, 2 for CSGO, 1 minecraft, 1 no moroom in hell, 2 insurgency and 1 ARK server... and I (we) don't play in ours servers... I'm (we are) dumb and I (we) like to vaste my (ours) money or, if you prefer, you can call me philanthropist :wink:

If that's what you want to do then fine, I've got nothing against that. But I pay for my servers so that me, my friends and a few others have somewhere to play where I/we know for a fact that there will be no abuse from admins and can play in our own space and keep the numbers down. If you remove the right for admins to play on their own servers then I have no need for it.

[QUOTE=garry;49583252]The whole point is that vanilla servers are the "honest mature" servers. Admins can turn it off using a mod, that will put them in the modded tab. So seems like it works how you want it?[/QUOTE] Vanilla servers are playing rust as designed, not more "honest" or "mature." I run both, but the modded version is to enhance the players experience by adding features missing in vanilla or to fix parts of the game that don't make sense imho. The mods I run conforms to MY vision of what Rust is - random meteor showers and all. There is nothing less honest or mature about it. If you really want to fix admin abuse you need to do it in the layer ABOVE the server where the box owner doesn't have a say in what packets leave. This is basic InfoSec 101, where it's game over once I have physical control of the server. Belittling the feedback from your independent admins who care enough to give you their side of the story is a disservice, and adding a poll that will only end up agreeing with your opinion doesn't add any value to the discussion either. There are SO many ways around chat messages, that this is really a non-solution. I hate to say it, but it feels like this is just pandering to the hoards by throwing independent admins under the bus. Are there too many servers? Probably, but that is just the end result of making a game that is fun even while under active development. In the end if you want to control the player experience you should remove the server from download and make official servers the only ones available.

The problem with the poll is simply that the only options were "Yes" and "No." That offers NO room for a compromise or explanation.

[QUOTE=Thor-axe;49584758]The problem with the poll is simply that the only options were "Yes" and "No." That offers NO room for a compromise or explanation.[/QUOTE] That poll has absolutely no value. It's basically there for self-validation. The write-up leading into it says it all. It's a loaded question to garner support for Garry's point of view. And you know all the ass-kissers are going to reply whatever way Garry suggests any way. "[I]Well, this is what Garry wants, so I'm voting to keep the messages[/I]" kind of thing. So regardless of the outcome, I consider that poll without value. Had it been introduced in a more neutral manner where people would have been able to choose without being influenced by what Garry thinks, then perhaps I'd accept it as being valid. Personally, even as an admin, I voted to NOT remove the spawn announcements. Now that we've been given a new admin tool to remove structures and deployables, there's no longer a real need for admins to spawn in stuff to do their job. If admins want to build structures or otherwise for events, I'd doubt anyone on the server would take exception to an admin spawning in the necessary materials if he announces it in chat beforehand. I have no issues with accountability.

I spawned a freaking ladder to finish the arena my admins and I were making and got flamed. I voted YES....

[QUOTE=Rosie;49585740]I spawned a freaking ladder to finish the arena my admins and I were making and got flamed. I voted YES....[/QUOTE] If you are building stuff with spawned in materials... your server isn't vanilla.

[QUOTE=joejoejoey04;49589274]If you are building stuff with spawned in materials... your server isn't vanilla.[/QUOTE] You misunderstand the definition of "vanilla". "Vanilla" in gaming refers to the base game, using only the features and mechanics implemented and using no third-party add-ons or "mods". The devs of rust have given admins the ability to spawn materials in the base game, therefore it is a "Vanilla" feature. I could build an entire city on a map using item spawning and it would still be "vanilla". Once you start adding third-part add-ons that change and add new items, features and mechanics etc .. then it becomes modded. But if you stick with the basic features, whatever you decided to do with them, then it's still "vanilla".

[QUOTE=Stewie.D;49589728]You misunderstand the definition of "vanilla". "Vanilla" in gaming refers to the base game, using only the features and mechanics implemented and using no third-party add-ons or "mods". The devs of rust have given admins the ability to spawn materials in the base game, therefore it is a "Vanilla" feature. I could build an entire city on a map using item spawning and it would still be "vanilla". Once you start adding third-part add-ons that change and add new items, features and mechanics etc .. then it becomes modded. But if you stick with the basic features, whatever you decided to do with them, then it's still "vanilla".[/QUOTE] I'm part of an admin team on a [B]busy[/B] server. We welcome the change as it lets us actually play. [B] Edit: Vanilla as defined by the creator of the game:[/B] [QUOTE]The arguments I hear against it are that it hinders administrating a server. Admins sometimes need to spawn items to remove items in the world (we’ve added a remove tool). Admins sometimes need to spawn items to create arenas (your server isn’t vanilla, install mods and be on the modded tab)[/QUOTE] - Garry, Devblog 94 In other words, if you are building stuff with spawned in items your server isn't true vanilla.