I was hoping someone could shed some light on the actual appeal of being a " hacker" in rust, if you call being a script kitty a hacker, but regardless, i don't really see much point in it. Now i'm fully aware that FP does check this so i don't expect anyone to come out and say " i'm ( insert username here) and i hack this shit out of rust because it's fun) but i was hoping maybe i could delve a little bit into the psyche of " hacking" rust. A little background on me is that i've been playing rust for about a month, and i like to think i was pretty good at it, and most of the " legit's" left me alone or wanted to appease me, but i had 3 different bases set up, and 3 different times, by 3 different hackers, everything i worked for was made moot. Now, i know that there's someone reading this going " this guy is really dumb, this game is in alpha and anything he does won't make a difference" and that's true, which i guess is part of the psychology of hacking in the regard that " i'm going to hack because when the game comes out i won't be able to, so i might as well do it now" but i still fail to see the appeal, i mean, i get it, you have aimbots, i assume resource managers, possibly unlimited health ( not 100% on that) and FPS drops, speed and flying hacks, and thats all fine but, where is the fun? i mean when you pretty much have the ability to be uncontested in a game....what's the point? Now i know there's another guy saying " well if were logged off people can still kill us" that's true, but if they didnt have bases the size of the death star, i might actually agree. Rust is suppose to be an adventure of building huts, gathering resources, killing others to achieve your own wants and needs, and trying to make the fullproof base, and i LOVE the idea, but i love it significantly less when an entire aspect of a game ( airdrops) has to be completely ignored because i WILL die before getting one because some "hacker" will oneshot me from the air with a bolt action rifle. So i repose my initial question, what about rust "hacking" do you actually like? Do you enjoy the aspect that you can seemingly ruin someones progress by wall hacking and humiliating them? or is it the fact that what would seem like the mundane aspect of resource collecting is seemingly eliminated and therefore you can assume the actual " hunter" aspect of the game?
Some people just can't ejaculate unless they've ruined someone else's day.
This isn't isolated to Rust; there will always be someone who [B]needs[/B] to be better than everyone else and dominate to feel good about themselves, and if they don't have the skill to be the top of the food chain, they artificially gain that skill by cheating.
They're not playing it for a challenge, they're playing it to get the most kills/points/stuff. If you ever knew any kids growing up that basically couldn't play single-player games without half/all the cheats turned on, they haven't changed, only network connectivity has.
I appreciate your input, i thought that at one point too, but my retort is, does that make you better? i suppose that it does on paper make you "better" than another player, but i mean, i don't know about you, but i would enjoy actually being better than a regular player, practicing, fucking up...alot, learning from my mistakes, and actually earning my bragging rights, it just seems like the whole dota 1 aspect of " paying to be better than someone else" is silly, maybe its also because my IQ is above 50 and i realize that
1. I'm an adult and having to basically pay for a game twice to be a little "better' than someone else, isn't going to fly, i have other stuff i can use that money for.
2. The eventuality that your going to be banned is to terrifying to make you want to do that. Maybe part of my brain is broken where i actually care about the game im playing, i wish i could go into a game, ruin it for other people by cheating and then just walk away like nothing happened, like jumping over the counter at a ring toss game, putting your ring over the most valuable bottle, stealing the biggest prize and running away, some part of that just doesnt click in my brain.
Also what I've seen, especially is rust, is that some people start hacking because they are tired of getting killed by hackers. So they think that they should also start to even the playing fields.
The sad part is that most of the times it's not even a hacker that kills them but just a very skilled player. I think some low skilled players don't see how it's possible to get a headshot at 100m+.
Cheaters are never "better" according to the rest of the community, but if they cared about the community, they wouldn't be aimbotting and speedhacking and using light hacks to see perfectly well in the dark.
I have seen people literally [I]brag[/I] that their parents will just give them the money to get Rust again if they get VAC banned on one Steam account, so they don't stop. They don't actually care about the cost or what anyone else thinks.
It's the new expression of the bully mentality. Bullying is well-understood to be primarily caused by someone with low self-esteem pushing someone else around to feel better about themselves, with little regard for the hurt they're causing the victim. Now, instead of shoving or hitting on the playground, it's driving out of servers with snap headshots at maximum draw distance.
[QUOTE=PewPewMan;45023406]some people start hacking because they are tired of getting killed by hackers[/QUOTE]
Every time someone made a "Please remove my VAC ban" thread and admitted to hacking strictly to counter-hack against the alleged hackers plaguing the server (sometimes it was clearly obvious with people flying and speedhacking) as if this was somehow an excuse, I could not help but laugh.
Yeah, because the VAC team is going to be sympathetic to you being too impatient and immature to just play on another server and excuse you from having commited the deadly sin. :v:
[QUOTE=PewPewMan;45023406]Also what I've seen, especially is rust, is that some people start hacking because they are tired of getting killed by hackers. So they think that they should also start to even the playing fields.
The sad part is that most of the times it's not even a hacker that kills them but just a very skilled player. I think some low skilled players don't see how it's possible to get a headshot at 100m+.[/QUOTE]
I won't argue that there are some people who are REALLY good at the game, my other team mate, one of 2 ( lol) defeated 5 guys with a handcannon and a bow, whilst they had guns, granted they were probably messing around, but the point is he did it, totally legit, so i will say that there is definitely room for skill, but i usually fall victim to a person, who isnt even near me ( who actually as it turns out is above me) flying around, autobotting me to death, and it's become kinda frustrating. I also don't wanna be " that " guy but maybe someone should do something but whoever is in charge of the servers ( ill be honest, i don't know) should actually make it a point, to have GM's on there. I have actually taken time out of my life to personally investigate "hackers" and so called reports of hackers, all of which i record, and then send to the appropriate person, i'm not asking for a paycheck but fuck man, this game is actually really good, and it would actually like to play it without having someone phase through my walls, loot my whole house, and the phase back out never to be seen again.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;45023353]Some people just can't ejaculate unless they've ruined someone else's day.
This isn't isolated to Rust; there will always be someone who [B]needs[/B] to be better than everyone else and dominate to feel good about themselves, and if they don't have the skill to be the top of the food chain, they artificially gain that skill by cheating.
They're not playing it for a challenge, they're playing it to get the most kills/points/stuff. If you ever knew any kids growing up that basically couldn't play single-player games without half/all the cheats turned on, they haven't changed, only network connectivity has.[/QUOTE]
nothing gets me off more than the sound of a guy screaming "WHAT THE FUUUUCK" and then go offline after I spawn kill him 5 times and steal all his shit
The official servers are unmonitored because the devs have more important things to do than babysit them, and it would be a full-time job for several people to provide adequate coverage -- paying for 4-5 people's salaries; never mind the overhead in time and money to go through the hiring process, screen out unacceptable candidates, interview promising ones, and then actually bring the new team member on board and getting them integrated into all of the systems in the office. This is a significant chunk of change for... dealing with hackers that are, at most, a major [B]annoyance[/B], in an alpha.
Play on community servers if you want active admins. Some of them may abuse their powers, but you're in their house and they're paying for it, so they can if they want; move on and find a better server.
Furthermore, the "old" version of Rust isn't being updated anymore, so no more security updates are coming down the pike there. All momentum's pushing Experimental forward, and I imagine the devs are building it to be more hardened to start with. The old version of Rust was not at all designed to be played by 1.6 million players (and the subset of that that're hackers) and so it was really easy to hack. Before the game was on Steam, it ran in the Unity webplayer plugin in a browser, and it could be edited with [I]Cheat Engine[/I], a tool for editing memory states in single-player games.
The experimental build is now running VAC as well as Easy Anti Cheat; the old version did not have EAC integrated.
[QUOTE=J!NX;45023558]nothing gets me off more than the sound of a guy screaming "WHAT THE FUUUUCK" and then go offline after I spawn kill him 5 times and steal all his shit[/QUOTE]
i'm not sure if this is an admission of hacking or not, but giving you benefit of the doubt, where i will admit that spawn killing in of itself is fairly lame, even if it is part of the game, i mean wouldn't it be much more satisfying to watch him scramble to a crate, grab a gun and then kill him? or maybe give him a fighting chance, rather than just eliminate someone who stands 0 threat to you?
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45023573]i'm not sure if this is an admission of hacking or not, but giving you benefit of the doubt, where i will admit that spawn killing in of itself is fairly lame, even if it is part of the game, i mean wouldn't it be much more satisfying to watch him scramble to a crate, grab a gun and then kill him? or maybe give him a fighting chance, rather than just eliminate someone who stands 0 threat to you?[/QUOTE]
I was kidding :v:
I don't even like rust [I]that[/I] much.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;45023572]The official servers are unmonitored because the devs have more important things to do than babysit them, and it would be a full-time job for several people to provide adequate coverage -- paying for 4-5 people's salaries; never mind the overhead in time and money to go through the hiring process, screen out unacceptable candidates, interview promising ones, and then actually bring the new team member on board and getting them integrated into all of the systems in the office. This is a significant chunk of change for... dealing with hackers that are, at most, a major [B]annoyance[/B], in an alpha.
Play on community servers if you want active admins. Some of them may abuse their powers, but you're in their house and they're paying for it, so they can if they want; move on and find a better server.
Furthermore, the "old" version of Rust isn't being updated anymore, so no more security updates are coming down the pike there. All momentum's pushing Experimental forward, and I imagine the devs are building it to be more hardened to start with. The old version of Rust was not at all designed to be played by 1.6 million players (and the subset of that that're hackers) and so it was really easy to hack. Before the game was on Steam, it ran in the Unity webplayer plugin in a browser, and it could be edited with [I]Cheat Engine[/I], a tool for editing memory states in single-player games.
The experimental build is now running VAC as well as Easy Anti Cheat; the old version did not have EAC integrated.[/QUOTE]
in order
1. They have more important things to do than secure the future of their game by making sure people can't rip it off, or spoil someones experience? i know doing blow and calling up pros is great and all but lets get real here
2. i shouldn't have to, they should be able to just not make the game exploitable, like 97% of games out there.
3. i would volunteer to be a GM, i don't want money, i just want to actively make sure rust actually, you know, HAS a future
4. good
5. why do you have a troll response, followed by an educated response, it makes it impossible to quote you.
My old admin said, that to beat a hacker, you must become one yourself - so he did.
Sadly, that's what getting most people banned - "if he can do it without getting caught... maybe I can do it and get back at him! And then I'll stop the hack!" - not less that 5 minutes after, you'll be VAC-banned.
There is a relatively simple answer to this question: it all boils down to empathy. Do you know what happens when you take a baby, and leave them in an isolated environment with no social contact whatsoever? They slowly become feral, and never learn what modern society has deemed as morally/ethically wrong/right.
It ultimately boils down to empathy being a collective human construct, and is not a naturally occurring mindset that just comes to us with age, with some not even having the mental capacity to properly comprehend the thought of putting others above themselves. An example: there is boy A, whom is told he can either keep 10 USD to buy some candy with, or he can share with boy B, so that they can both buy candy to enjoy together. Boy A chooses to use all 10 USD for himself, because without the capacity to comprehend empathy, he is under the genuine belief that he only has to look out for himself, and that if boy B wants their own candy, they can find their own means instead.
If you look at it rationally, there is nothing inherently wrong with their lack of empathy, simply because our species was built on self-preservation and a tribal/nomadic affinity. What is actually unnatural are the societies we build for ourselves, and the norms we force on ourselves under the guise that our morals and ethics are somehow correct, even in the face of naturalization.
This does not apply to everyone, of course, as there are those that have empathy, but still choose to harm others for some baser pleasure. Just take this as a possible explanation towards some that act the way they do in Rust.
That statement had absolutely nothing to do with hacking.... i understand normal pvp psychology.
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45023923]That statement had absolutely nothing to do with hacking.... i understand normal pvp psychology.[/QUOTE]
You specifically stated that you do not understand the point of anything hackers do, nor their mindset. I answered that, by giving my opinion that just as you genuinely do not understand them, it goes both ways and many of them genuinely do not understand you.
Just because it is not an answer you are looking for does not make what I said irrelevant.
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45023587]i shouldn't have to, they should be able to just not make the game exploitable, like 97% of games out there.[/QUOTE]
what :v:
Well, thanks for the neon sign that means "I have no idea what I'm talking about," that makes things a lot easier. The only surefire way to make a game 100% hack-proof is to never write any code and abandon the project before you begin. Computer software is very complex and the same code can behave very differently on different hardware. Among other things, on the old version of Rust, almost all validation is client-side, which means that you can lie to the server and it'll accept it, which enables speedhackers and flying and so on. Moving validation onto the server would fix most of this, [B]but[/B] it also causes two new problems: Server performance goes down even more when it's already not that optimized yet, and the code being paranoid slows down development, because now you've got to update the validation criteria to accept the new changes while accepting the old configuration from older clients. All of this extra validation throws the door wide open for even more bugs as well as making the devs take extra time to make sure it's in agreement with the new changes, and that means longer periods between updates.
Don't you want updates faster so the game is finished faster?
Alpha isn't designed to provide a great experience for players. It's for developing and testing the game in its earliest, coarsest stages. If something is broken or isn't working well, the devs will work on it to improve it. However, if the thing that's broken is lower priority than other things, it won't be worked on right away. Player feedback is very important in alpha; the fact that you're not having tons of [B]fun[/B] because of the unfinished state of everything is significantly less so.
Everyone likes car analogies. You're climbing into the bare metal chassis of a car under construction that doesn't even have wheels or glass or electrics in, and then complaining that because there's no seat or steering wheel you can't drive the car in any sort of comfort. Clearly, the car isn't anywhere near ready for road tests yet, so complaining about the lack of cushioned seating is missing the point.
What you call a troll response, I call the developers' priorities, whether or not you understand them.
im not as convinced that the "neon sign" you mentioned exists outside of your imagination, I can't think of a single other game that i have personally played where hacking existed. The only 2 i can think of are CS, and TF2, and yea, they SHOULD put more effort into make the game better for the players, and not just wiping their asses with the money from "rare hats". Think of another popular game, like dota 2, there aren't any hacks for that game, why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING, they did from the beginning, and if there was ANY hacking at all, it was minimal, they also took it upon themselves to rectify any losses that resulted from hacking, now in case you decide you wanna be dumb again, yes, i'm aware that a large chunk of dota 2's files and assests are on their servers, which would make it almost impossible to hack the game, so why doesn't rust do the same thing? i don't wanna be the guy who tells them how to make their game but if having minimal files on a local pc means that its that much harder to find exploits in the game, then i'm probably going to put forth the extra work. Your fun little car analogy would've worked, if it made sense. I agree that they need to make sure they have important things in their game, but going back to the car analogy, i'd be awfully hard to complain about seats not having cushions when the frame is made feces, because someone spray painted shit silver to make an extra buck.
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45024082]im not as convinced that the "neon sign" you mentioned exists outside of your imagination, I can't think of a single other game that i have personally played where hacking existed. The only 2 i can think of are CS, and TF2, and yea, they SHOULD put more effort into make the game better for the players, and not just wiping their asses with the money from "rare hats". Think of another popular game, like dota 2, there aren't any hacks for that game, why? BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT THE FUCK THEY ARE DOING, they did from the beginning, and if there was ANY hacking at all, it was minimal, they also took it upon themselves to rectify any losses that resulted from hacking, now in case you decide you wanna be dumb again, yes, i'm aware that a large chunk of dota 2's files and assests are on their servers, which would make it almost impossible to hack the game, so why doesn't rust do the same thing? i don't wanna be the guy who tells them how to make their game but if having minimal files on a local pc means that its that much harder to find exploits in the game, then i'm probably going to put forth the extra work. Your fun little car analogy would've worked, if it made sense. I agree that they need to make sure they have important things in their game, but going back to the car analogy, i'd be awfully hard to complain about seats not having cushions when the frame is made feces, because someone spray painted shit silver to make an extra buck.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.mpgh.net/forum/370-defense-ancients-2-dota-2-hacks/[/url]
So, there are no hacks, but then there maybe was hacks, but it was minimal. Why is there more than "well, fuck, how do we do this, guys?" in MPGH?
I don't wanna be the guy that calls you a huge idiot, but you need to read up on the [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect"]Dunning-Kruger Effect[/URL]. Because, this
[QUOTE]I can't think of a single other game that i have personally played where hacking existed[/QUOTE]
is proof that your arguments are weak. Hacking and generalized cheating is [B]everywhere[/B], whether or not you've been able to personally tell in your own personal experiences in the games you have played.
[video=youtube;XLk0f2fqoB4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLk0f2fqoB4[/video]
Here's some nice Battlefield 4 hacks being demonstrated.
[video=youtube;GRQo7cdWevw]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GRQo7cdWevw[/video]
What's this, a Diablo III bot?
[video=youtube;Mj3o17NWxls]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mj3o17NWxls[/video]
Wait, League of Legends botters?
[video=youtube;zquMCf5DQ20]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zquMCf5DQ20[/video]
Dota 2, whyyyyyyy
[video=youtube;sxFQJxrwS58]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sxFQJxrwS58[/video]
Oops, Path of Exile.
[video=youtube;4C2L7a4daPQ]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4C2L7a4daPQ[/video]
Not even Dark Souls II.
Do you want me to keep going?
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45024082]I can't think of a single other game that i have personally played where hacking existed.[/QUOTE]
Are you actually this ignorant to gaming?
You've REALLY never heard of [url]http://combatarms.nexon.net/[/url] it seems. The game has become literally nothing but Cheaters vs Cheaters. It's impossibly to play unless you [I]cheat at it[/I]. [url]https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=combat+arms+cheat[/url] , Just look at [I]youtube alone[/I]
every game that's ever existed has a hack somewhere out there. Even console games. Combat arms is like, barely 0.0001% of the games effected.
[url]http://www.arcadeprehacks.com/[/url]
shit, even singleplayer flash games aren't immune. Same with multiplier.
[editline]7th June 2014[/editline]
oh and rust is in beta, they are bug testing
everything is clientside for easier patching, this will change, but for now they're just dealing with [I]actually making a game[/I]. They can't bend over just because there are people exploiting the system because they [I]want[/I] people to exploit it so they can make a far superior product. they don't actually want cheaters, but this makes for less cheaters in the future because they have more knowledge of anticheat.
It's easier to report issues that are on the client than the server.
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45023587]i don't want money, i just want to actively make sure rust actually, you know, HAS a future[/QUOTE]
implying rust will die without your help / help of admins
unofficial servers exist
Yes i need you to keep going.
[QUOTE=lolcatzuru;45023275]I was hoping someone could shed some light on the actual appeal of being a " hacker" in rust, if you call being a script kitty a hacker, but regardless, i don't really see much point in it. [/QUOTE]
You hack because everyone else is hacking.
You hack because you want to make a building that would not be possible to make without hacking.
You hack because you like killing people and taking their stuff.
You hack because you like pissing people off.
Ultimately I think hackers just like the attention they get. It's that simple. It makes them feel special, or worthwhile, or just different. Probably because they don't get such recognition in other areas of their lives.
Personally, I think if you can't stand on your own two feet and "be a man" in a video game without cheating, then where can you?! (apologies to female gamers over that chauvinistic statement). But seriously... hacking is just a sign of weakness.
[QUOTE=J!NX;45023558]nothing gets me off more than the sound of a guy screaming "WHAT THE FUUUUCK" and then go offline after I spawn kill him 5 times and steal all his shit[/QUOTE]
fucking assclown has a link in her header for VAC proof rust hacks...what a little turd
[QUOTE=jakezn;45033631]fucking assclown has a link in her header for VAC proof rust hacks...what a little turd[/QUOTE]
I think you should click on the link.
[QUOTE=Lurd;45033670]I think you should click on the link.[/QUOTE]
nope
[QUOTE=iamcpc;45032522]You hack because everyone else is hacking.
You hack because you want to make a building that would not be possible to make without hacking.
You hack because you like killing people and taking their stuff.
You hack because you like pissing people off.[/QUOTE]
And you forgot the main one , you "hack" because you have no skill so you resort to hacks instead of doing the effort of learning how to play.
People hack because they are insecure and are in general, terrible at the game. Catch a hacker with his hacks off and see how easy it is to kill them. They are worthless without their (pos1-pos2):toAngle() aimbot hacks
[QUOTE=AJ10017;45034285]People hack because they are insecure and are in general, terrible at the game. Catch a hacker with his hacks off and see how easy it is to kill them. They are worthless without their (pos1-pos2):toAngle() aimbot hacks[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=SKOL;45032959]Ultimately I think hackers just like the attention they get. It's that simple. It makes them feel special, or worthwhile, or just different. Probably because they don't get such recognition in other areas of their lives.
Personally, I think if you can't stand on your own two feet and "be a man" in a video game without cheating, then where can you?! (apologies to female gamers over that chauvinistic statement). But seriously... hacking is just a sign of weakness.[/QUOTE]
Such statement is rather broad. Not all [I]cheaters[/I] (not hackers, there is a difference) are the same. Some do it because they feel like everything they worked hard for was taken away from them. They feel humiliated. Be it due to another hacker or someone better than them, they were shoved into a place they didn't appreciate being shoved into. So, to crawl back out, they used a "tool" to assist them. It is not because they're a terrible person, it's because someone made them snap. Think of it like bullying in school. Bully a kid everyday, over and over. He tries so hard to get smarter and protect himself from the bullying, but one day he snaps and decides that trying to be defensive is too pain-staking and just being [I]offensive[/I] is easier (aka, school shootings/cheating in a game - this is an analogy people).
But turn the camera. There are still more people sitting at this table. You have the hackers (who may also cheaters, these words are not synonyms) who are too curious for the good of their name. They want to see the inner workings, they want to toy with the engineer's design and see where me messed up - if at all (this is how "security consultants" come about). It gets to a point where it's fun to [U]make[/U] the hacks because it provides a sort of knowledge to the hacker as it fulfills their curiosity - no where is there a malicious intent. They may not take joy in the thought of ruining people's gameplay. In fact, they probably don't even think about it. Their intent isn't to ruin the game for others, but instead to just see if they can challenge themselves with a [I]difficult puzzle they want to solve.[/I]
Annnnnnd then you have the edge of the table. That kid no one likes. This guy can be a cheater who just likes to see people rage (his mental maturity is sub-par) - taking a liking to the fun it brings him and the pain it brings the majority. Malicious intent is somewhere in there. And it's hard to understand these guys because their sense of cyber-humanity is basically out the fucking window. Sometimes.
However, you have to remember this is the 1%. The final 99% is filled with people who feel betrayed, lost, or hopeless - but also those who have curiosity, a strive to learn, a want to understand what makes everything work, and a desire to change up the playing field because it's losing point.
So, yea.
I will never understand them and to be honest I don't care. Whenever I get killed by a hacker, I simply silent report them to the admin. I don't complain, I don't give them any attention due to the simple fact that I know I am better than all of them, and that's enough for me. Ignore them publicly and work "behind the scenes" to get them caught. That's it.
PS: There are servers with active admins out there which are almost free from hackers. You just have to search carefully.
[QUOTE=jakezn;45033631]fucking assclown has a link in her header for VAC proof rust hacks...what a little turd[/QUOTE]
it literally links to
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vbSB37U81Cg&hd=1[/url] (Not linking to flame, that's the video, check for yourself)
also that post doesn't at all imply I'm hacking, it just says I like being a dick
maybe think before you post next time
[QUOTE=jakezn;45033757]nope[/QUOTE]
you try and tell people what the link is without even knowing what the link is
are you this dense?
[QUOTE=Mezamorphis;45034039]And you forgot the main one , you "hack" because you have no skill so you resort to hacks instead of doing the effort of learning how to play.[/QUOTE]
or hack because you can
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