Rust Currency - Rust - Facepunch Forum

I had an idea where there are maybe very rare veins inside of rocks, like gold or silver, and their only function is the ability to turn them into coins. The gold coins would be really very rare, but that's all they do. Making the players be able to use them as currency their only worth being their rarity. The players of a server decide their worth, or even if they use it. It might add another dimension to the game that still fits in with its spirit. [editline]24th May 2015[/editline] anyone have any thoughts on this?

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47793652]I had an idea where there are maybe very rare veins inside of rocks, like gold or silver, and their only function is the ability to turn them into coins. The gold coins would be really very rare, but that's all they do. Making the players be able to use them as currency their only worth being their rarity. The players of a server decide their worth, or even if they use it. It might add another dimension to the game that still fits in with its spirit. [editline]24th May 2015[/editline] anyone have any thoughts on this?[/QUOTE] There's no point for a currency without appropriate trading mechanism or safe places. Every time you will try to barter with someone you will receive nice headshot and your coins will get looted from your dead body.

The problem with a fiat currency, which is what you have just described, is that it has a value only because a large centralized body (the government that is in charge of the country, usually, or an entity designated by them like a national Bank) guarantees that the currency can be exchanged for goods. It has a commonly-accepted standard value (which may vary when compared to other currencies or as the economy changes over time, but currency exchange and inflation is irrelevant to this thread) because a powerful authority says it does and allows you to pay your taxes with it. If there's an item that does nothing and is meaningless except that it exists, it has no practical value. Players have no reason to treat a gold coin item with any value at all because hoarding a lot of gold coins does nothing for you. The only way it'd work is if the server itself established an exchange rate between gold coins and other items, and forced an economy on the players. While such an idea is fine for a mod and there have been economy mods out there, that kind of artificial structure runs counter to garry's vision of Rust. I've heard of servers that used bullets as currency in legacy. Bullets have an inherent practical value: they kill people efficiently. Players can determine for themselves exactly how much a bullet is worth, but a bullet is automatically worth [I]something[/I] to players. Compare that to the gold coin that has no gameplay function.

Sort of, if it's in the game people will be interested in it's use, it has value because it's rare, that's it, that's it's value.

I don't think you understand. The default rock you start out with has more value than gold ore because you can kill people with it. Gold HAS no use except to be the orphan end of a structured economy that garry won't add to the game. If gold and other ores actually had some kind of gameplay use, like you need gold to craft keycode locks or something, that's when the item will actually have value. But if gold has no use at all except for its rarity (and unless you set a server to only ever spawn gold resource nodes once, the rarity will forever go down as more and more gets dug up), it's about as useful as hoarding human shit in a silo.

What's wrong with frags as currency? They are both valuable and serve a purpose.

[QUOTE=itisjuly;47794572]What's wrong with frags as currency? They are both valuable and serve a purpose.[/QUOTE] Agree with this. If a free economy is ever to be established (That said, if people ever learn respect and honour) metal frags are to be the standard coin. Very useful and not that much inflation in them.

We currently offer a "Trader" service on our server utilising wood as currency. People bring us a previously agreed amount of wood, and we trade them the item/s they are after. It's all done via a trade box, which involves no face to face contact. We have multiple people on guard to ensure our customers and our own safety also. Anyone that approaches the trade zone without prior acknowledgement is killed on site; hence the area is very safe for customers. Originally people told us it wouldn't work, but we are now achieving wood profits of 100-300k per day. Keeps our furnaces running 24/7 and allows us to expand and ensure we are continually increasing our defences. Blueprints and guns are the most popular items we trade, but we sell everything for a price. The markups are high, but people keep buying and coming back for more. It's an entirely new style of game play that our group really enjoys. For those interested, I'll give you a snap shot of some of the pricing (all in wood) All tools - 3k each All cloths - 3k each (Vagabond Jacket - 6k) Bolt Actions and AR's - 18k each All other guns - 15k each etc etc The big earners for us are the C4 and Rocket Launcher BP's, bringing in 50k each. [IMG]http://puu.sh/hZmY1/ff994540ec.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/hZmZZ/b6cca7f107.jpg[/IMG] [IMG]http://puu.sh/hZn1z/12f37e5584.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47794431]I don't think you understand. [/QUOTE] I don't think that you understand. It's useful because it can buy things, that's it's use, it's the principle of any economic market. It's like saying that real dollars are useless in real life because they burn too fast to create enough heat. There wouldn't have to be an entire "structured economy" that's added, it's up to the players, the players can be that structure and it's no problem. It could be useful for a lot of servers, but I can see a lot of servers neglecting it. And as for the whole inflation thing, there could possibly be a decay system in place, that exceptionally old coins rust or something so that you may have a stable economy (much like in real life, money is lost and tears, and is destroyed). It's fundamentally a good idea, I think that you're being needlessly close minded already deciding that you're right.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47798131]I don't think that you understand. It's useful because it can buy things, that's it's use, it's the principle of any economic market. It's like saying that real dollars are useless in real life because they burn too fast to create enough heat. There wouldn't have to be an entire "structured economy" that's added, it's up to the players, the players can be that structure and it's no problem. It could be useful for a lot of servers, but I can see a lot of servers neglecting it. And as for the whole inflation thing, there could possibly be a decay system in place, that exceptionally old coins rust or something so that you may have a stable economy (much like in real life, money is lost and tears, and is destroyed). It's fundamentally a good idea, I think that you're being needlessly close minded already deciding that you're right.[/QUOTE] What can it buy? If you walk up to me in a server wanting to trade, I don't give a shit about your lumps of gold because they do [I]nothing[/I]. They are entirely useless to me unless you force the whole server to agree on an exchange rate. They are worthless to me and I'm not giving you wood or metal or C4 for an item that does and means nothing. You can't convert them into something useful unless you convince someone to take your useless item and give you a useful item. This is day 1 of economics 101. Economy plugins do exactly what you're suggesting (without adding a gold ore resource type, since that'd require modding the client and that's a VAC ban move) and create the economic structure that allows you to turn your currency in for useful items. Adding an item that does nothing at all and expecting players to assign it a useful value is just a quest to find the dumbest guy in the room who'll happily hand out all of his resources so he can sit on a pile of useless items. Amrak's group trading wood for resources at a trading post is an example of doing it right. Wood has uses, and in exchange for wood, you get tools, clothes, weapons, and BPs. Useful thing goes in, useful thing comes out.

Elix isn't the only one here that thinks it's uselessness would equal worthlessness. Regardless of what the currency is; if it's only value is trading, I'll accept bullets or metal frags over currency any day.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47798131]I don't think that you understand. It's useful because it can buy things, that's it's use, it's the principle of any economic market. It's like saying that real dollars are useless in real life because they burn too fast to create enough heat. There wouldn't have to be an entire "structured economy" that's added, it's up to the players, the players can be that structure and it's no problem. It could be useful for a lot of servers, but I can see a lot of servers neglecting it. And as for the whole inflation thing, there could possibly be a decay system in place, that exceptionally old coins rust or something so that you may have a stable economy (much like in real life, money is lost and tears, and is destroyed). It's fundamentally a good idea, I think that you're being needlessly close minded already deciding that you're right.[/QUOTE] If you brought me gold coins to trade I'd shoot you, steal your clothes, and throw your coins in the dirt.

in tf2, items have rarity based on being rare, not on being useful. in diablo 2 back in the days, the currency was "stone of jornany" or SOJ, a rare unique ring. the ring was good but not the best, it was used as a currency like the CSGO keys or TF2 keys are used now. obviously those SOJ were not really for wearing or consuming, it was just a status item or simply currency. all high-tier items were priced in SOJ, and it was a rare item. It could be the same in rust if people start having interest in a rare item. Currency cannot be a consumable items like bullets because its too volatile, and too easy to create. it have to be something rare, and its value will only depends if its somewhat desirable, like a status symbol. it could be some new gold material without big purpose other than craft cosmetic or improve some other items. it could be blood bags or cameras (they're rare arent they ?)

bullets, guns, wood, stone, metal frags, cloth, gp, low grade fuel could all be used as "money". but "gold" that has no other use is going to remain worthless regardless of how much you say it is worth. sure, you might be able to sell it like snake oil, but the value you create will quickly be lost.

I want you to understand, Fresh Maker: If gold can be used to craft [I]anything[/I] that actually does something, even decorative (such as a gold crown so you can proclaim yourself King of Dongfort), it will have some amount of value, and as louisclub highlights, players may assign additional importance and value to the item. This is perfectly fine, and gold ore/nuggest/bars are also not a [I]fiat[/I] currency at that point, because they can be turned into something useful even if that usefulness is to be decorative. The problem is that you clearly state at the start that the gold/other semi-precious metals would have [B]no[/B] purpose for existing except to be currency. When something is completely useless, it's worthless. Just give it some minor reason for existing, and the whole problem goes away.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47799106]I want you to understand, Fresh Maker: If gold can be used to craft [I]anything[/I] that actually does something, even decorative (such as a gold crown so you can proclaim yourself King of Dongfort), it will have some amount of value, and as louisclub highlights, players may assign additional importance and value to the item. This is perfectly fine, and gold ore/nuggest/bars are also not a [I]fiat[/I] currency at that point, because they can be turned into something useful even if that usefulness is to be decorative. The problem is that you clearly state at the start that the gold/other semi-precious metals would have [B]no[/B] purpose for existing except to be currency. When something is completely useless, it's worthless. Just give it some minor reason for existing, and the whole problem goes away.[/QUOTE] Look. Money is not about the government, nor the usefulness in the end. It is about people who believe, it has value, for the purpose of having a unified currency for being able to make a better economy. All the people must accept money for the sake of good economy. People not believing in money, can ruin economy. While people believing in the value of the money even while they are in a big crisis, they can even prevent the collapse of a state. Making a flat currency with imagined value in rust's economy (which can be even viewed as the government) is completely viable. Only condition, is that buyer gives money, and seller believes its worth 30 chickens. Make a tradepost, and accept money for 30 chickens. Value of money will spread like wildfire, people coming buying for money, and bringing stuff for getting money. One player can make an entire server a working economy based on flat currency. There was a guy, who tried trading, and half the server guaranteed his safety.

[QUOTE=mestermagyar;47799703]All the people must accept money for the sake of good economy. People not believing in money, can ruin economy. While people believing in the value of the money even while they are in a big crisis, they can even prevent the collapse of a state.[/QUOTE] Are we talking about a video game, still? Why does a useless item need to be added for this to happen? People did it with bullets in legacy, and people do it today with metal frags and wood now. I don't believe in Fresh Maker's "useless for anything else" gold economy. Fiat currencies are a consentual shared hallucination and I see absolutely no reason to transport such an abstract idea into Rust. Not when you can trade actual usable items. If you offer me useless gold, I'll tell you to piss off with your useless bunk. It [I]has no purpose in the game[/I] except for trading, and we already have plenty of resources that are good for trading. [B]AGAIN[/B], there are plugins that already do this. Vanilla Rust does not need this. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] Put another way, the reason fiat currency works in the real world is that there are laws regarding legal tender; I don't know about in Hungary, but over here it's [I]illegal[/I] to not accept payment in cash. You can choose to accept barter in some situations, but if you are a merchant you [I]must[/I] recognize the money as an acceptable form of exchanging value. If you walk up to me with your big bucket of otherwise-useless gold and want to trade with me, I will refuse to accept your gold and instead demand an item that is actually useful for something. Oops, the economy falls apart because there's a refusal to agree that this meaningless object has value. It's a waste of the devs' time to add something just so some small minority of servers can recreate fiat currencies, [B]especially[/B] when those servers would be just better off installing an economy mod or just agreeing that candle hats are the unit of exchange.

Elix, bro, I commend you for taking the time to state the obvious that most of us here took to be common sense. I'd have lost patience with this guy like 5 posts ago. Poor lil feller hasn't had his basic education yet. Maybe he tried to pay for it with charcoal :wink:

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47799106]I want you to understand, Fresh Maker: If gold can be used to craft [I]anything[/I] that actually does something, even decorative (such as a gold crown so you can proclaim yourself King of Dongfort), it will have some amount of value, and as louisclub highlights, players may assign additional importance and value to the item. This is perfectly fine, and gold ore/nuggest/bars are also not a [I]fiat[/I] currency at that point, because they can be turned into something useful even if that usefulness is to be decorative. The problem is that you clearly state at the start that the gold/other semi-precious metals would have [B]no[/B] purpose for existing except to be currency. When something is completely useless, it's worthless. Just give it some minor reason for existing, and the whole problem goes away.[/QUOTE] You're really wrong, currency has existed since civilization has existed without any immediate use other than it's ability to buy things. It's not an abstract idea at all, it is the basis for all trade. (this is economy 101) really ironic statement. People use currency because it's preferable to bartering for goods, we have collectively as society pretty much universally decided that currency is more useful than arbitrarily assigning values to things (50 bullets is worth 10000 wood, but 100 bullets is worth a c4, and the currency exchange for wood to c4 is... etc) And anyone saying that they would shoot someone trying to buy things with coins, wouldn't you also do that with people trying to buy things with wood? or bullets? what's the difference, just because you're a player that doesn't like to operate like that, doesn't mean that it's not viable for other players who do like to trade, understand? Currency has existed before governments decided their worth, Currency works because people believe it has value, that's it, there's no big brother who will break your arms if you don't accept it's value, it has value because it's rare. In my opinion it could open up players to be that government if they wanted to. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=mestermagyar;47799703]Look. Money is not about the government, nor the usefulness in the end. It is about people who believe, it has value, for the purpose of having a unified currency for being able to make a better economy. All the people must accept money for the sake of good economy. People not believing in money, can ruin economy. While people believing in the value of the money even while they are in a big crisis, they can even prevent the collapse of a state. Making a flat currency with imagined value in rust's economy (which can be even viewed as the government) is completely viable. Only condition, is that buyer gives money, and seller believes its worth 30 chickens. Make a tradepost, and accept money for 30 chickens. Value of money will spread like wildfire, people coming buying for money, and bringing stuff for getting money. One player can make an entire server a working economy based on flat currency. There was a guy, who tried trading, and half the server guaranteed his safety.[/QUOTE] This guy gets it. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Thor-axe;47800039]Elix, bro, I commend you[/QUOTE] adults are talking

In the past, I might have agreed with you that having a simple currency, with no other value aside from being currency, would work, as in my experiences, in the world of video-games, it has been made abundantly clear that gamers will treasure and utilize everything they can collect/make/raid within a game. A perfect example of this would be SteamWorld Dig, where you have to collect blue orbs to upgrade your tools. But the devs showed, statistically, that even after the few items that needed blue orbs were upgraded, and the blue orbs were rendered useless, that players still went through and collected as many more as they could find. Another good example is with Shovel Knight, where it is a statistical fact that players will continue to collect as much money as they can, even after having bought the very limited amount of items available (Youtubers clearly show that even after having bought every item in the game, they will go through pains to never die/collect their money again should they have died). But when it comes to huge multi-player games such as Rust, I have to say the illusion was broken for me when I was running a Minecraft server back in 2011. I had just converted my server over into a Bukkit server, and I introduced a plug-in that added coin drops for killing mobs, to use as a server-based currency. I wanted to experiment with the system, first, before adding a merchant plug-in, and it was made abundantly clear to me, within 2-weeks, that without any inherent value attached to these mob coins, and the inability to use them as mats, they were deemed useless, and never replaced the barter system until I finally got around to adding a merchant plug-in that forced the use of mob coins as currency. I am not saying the same would necessarily happen with Rust. But I have a really strong suspicion, and I have absolutely no faith attached to what is, essentially, a useless currency that has no inherent value or security.

[QUOTE=Thor-axe;47800039]Elix, bro, I commend you for taking the time to state the obvious that most of us here took to be common sense. I'd have lost patience with this guy like 5 posts ago. Poor lil feller hasn't had his basic education yet. Maybe he tried to pay for it with charcoal :wink:[/QUOTE] Did they raise your rent again guys. Players only trade items because currency is NOT incorporated in a game. Many RPG games require gathering or making currency items. This game has not, not to say it cant. As long as it does not interfere with the fluidness and simplicity of the clan bully abuse.

Gentlemen, I agree with the OP but not entirely. If we were to force a stronger economy by the use of gold and CONVINCING the people that this currency would be the universal value of trade, it can certainly be accomplished. After all, gold was a major game changer during the medieval era because it allowed all people to have a common currency in the form of a phisically shit-level useless but psychologically, economically and politically hyper important rare mineral. TL;DR, Gold could work if people are convinced to use it. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Leon Garoux;47801210]In the past, I might have agreed with you that having a simple currency, with no other value aside from being currency, would work, as in my experiences, in the world of video-games, it has been made abundantly clear that gamers will treasure and utilize everything they can collect/make/raid within a game. A perfect example of this would be SteamWorld Dig, where you have to collect blue orbs to upgrade your tools. But the devs showed, statistically, that even after the few items that needed blue orbs were upgraded, and the blue orbs were rendered useless, that players still went through and collected as many more as they could find. Another good example is with Shovel Knight, where it is a statistical fact that players will continue to collect as much money as they can, even after having bought the very limited amount of items available (Youtubers clearly show that even after having bought every item in the game, they will go through pains to never die/collect their money again should they have died). But when it comes to huge multi-player games such as Rust, I have to say the illusion was broken for me when I was running a Minecraft server back in 2011. I had just converted my server over into a Bukkit server, and I introduced a plug-in that added coin drops for killing mobs, to use as a server-based currency. I wanted to experiment with the system, first, before adding a merchant plug-in, and it was made abundantly clear to me, within 2-weeks, that without any inherent value attached to these mob coins, and the inability to use them as mats, they were deemed useless, and never replaced the barter system until I finally got around to adding a merchant plug-in that forced the use of mob coins as currency. I am not saying the same would necessarily happen with Rust. But I have a really strong suspicion, and I have absolutely no faith attached to what is, essentially, a useless currency that has no inherent value or security.[/QUOTE] I can agree with you, but the audience for Rust is slightly different. Plus, in Rust communication is much more abundant than in Minecraft

[QUOTE=spiritchill;47801354]Did they raise your rent again guys. Players only trade items because currency is NOT incorporated in a game. Many RPG games require gathering or making currency items. This game has not, not to say it cant. As long as it does not interfere with the fluidness and simplicity of the clan bully abuse.[/QUOTE] RPGs also have NPC shops that assign a value to the currency. Unless NPC shops are implemented in the vanilla game, currency really is useless in the vanilla game. I'd be able to get what I wanted by bartering goods just as easily, if not easier. And bartering has been around far longer than currency. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=andreslucero;47803552]Gentlemen, I agree with the OP but not entirely. If we were to force a stronger economy by the use of gold and CONVINCING the people that this currency would be the universal value of trade, it can certainly be accomplished. After all, gold was a major game changer during the medieval era because it allowed all people to have a common currency in the form of a phisically shit-level useless but psychologically, economically and politically hyper important rare mineral. TL;DR, Gold could work if people are convinced to use it. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] I can agree with you, but the audience for Rust is slightly different. Plus, in Rust communication is much more abundant than in Minecraft[/QUOTE] The key part to your argument there seems to be forcing this system on players, and from statements made by Gary, that seems highly unlikely to happen.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47801052] [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] adults are talking[/QUOTE] Your idea is terrible but your attitude is worse. Comparing real life examples of government and currency carries no weight in this video game, and trading between materials is fine the way it is. Adding a stupid useless 'currency' is a waste of time and only fills in the blank for people incapable of doing that themselves. Maybe you need someone telling you what is worth what but I don't.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47798131]I don't think that you understand. It's useful because it can buy things, that's it's use, it's the principle of any economic market. It's like saying that real dollars are useless in real life because they burn too fast to create enough heat. There wouldn't have to be an entire "structured economy" that's added, it's up to the players, the players can be that structure and it's no problem. It could be useful for a lot of servers, but I can see a lot of servers neglecting it. And as for the whole inflation thing, there could possibly be a decay system in place, that exceptionally old coins rust or something so that you may have a stable economy (much like in real life, money is lost and tears, and is destroyed). It's fundamentally a good idea, I think that you're being needlessly close minded already deciding that you're right.[/QUOTE] On a side note decaying currency would kill an economy that was set up incredibly fast. Who would want to hold on to or accept gold that dissapeares? Everyone would want to convert it into something, ANYTHING else. At that point you are back to the bartering system.

[QUOTE=andreslucero;47803552]Gentlemen, I agree with the OP but not entirely. If we were to force a stronger economy by the use of gold and CONVINCING the people that this currency would be the universal value of trade, it can certainly be accomplished. After all, gold was a major game changer during the medieval era because it allowed all people to have a common currency in the form of a phisically shit-level useless but psychologically, economically and politically hyper important rare mineral. TL;DR, Gold could work if people are convinced to use it. [editline]25th May 2015[/editline] I can agree with you, but the audience for Rust is slightly different. Plus, in Rust communication is much more abundant than in Minecraft[/QUOTE] Here is the way I see it: 1. If Rust were to add in a currency that does not act as a mat, meaning that its base value is 0, one would have to make that currency very prominent. For instance - taking gold coins, and being able to make piles of them like one can in Terraria. Give it unique motions, such as being able to toss/flip the coin into the air. 2. It would be extremely easy to add currency in, that can also act as a mat/mats, which would vastly raise the currency's base value. A perfect example, would be the ability to turn coins into ammunition for the shotgun. As long as the currency added has more than one use, it would be very viable. 3. Now, the real question is as to whether or not adding in currency would be worth it. Is turning coins into ammunition for the shotgun unique? Not really; no. So that alone would not justify adding in a currency, when many servers already utilize viable mats as currency, such as seen with bullets and frags. 4. So here comes the big part: what unique purposes, would metals such as silver and gold, serve, aside from being a currency? Can those same materials be used, instead, to create certain machinery? Use diamonds, for instance, to create refraction lenses? So the real discussion, that needs to be had, is not as to whether or not currency should be added. What should really be discussed, is what sort of unique cliches said currency/currencies can fill within the game, that would justify their addition into the game.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47801052]You're really wrong, currency has existed since civilization has existed without any immediate use other than it's ability to buy things.[/QUOTE] currency is simply trade backed by a ruling party's assurance that the coins are worth something. the reason it has value is because the "boss" says that it is worth "this much". if i went to a shop in america with thai baht trying to buy things, they would most likely not acknowledge the value of the money and refuse to trade with me. what you are suggesting is no different to using bullets to trade, except it has no other use than trading. why implement such a broken system?

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47805012] what you are suggesting is no different to using bullets to trade, except it has no other use than trading. why implement such a broken system?[/QUOTE] Bullets are fine, but what if I want to buy bullets? what do I do then? [editline]26th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=DeadRisen;47803900]On a side note decaying currency would kill an economy that was set up incredibly fast. Who would want to hold on to or accept gold that dissapeares? Everyone would want to convert it into something, ANYTHING else. At that point you are back to the bartering system.[/QUOTE] Make it so the decay takes a REALLY long time, as in too long to really notice, but if you leave it sitting forever it can decay, I don't know, that part isn't really worked out yet, still a new idea. [editline]26th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Thor-axe;47803829]Your idea is terrible but your attitude is worse. Comparing real life examples of government and currency carries no weight in this video game, and trading between materials is fine the way it is. Adding a stupid useless 'currency' is a waste of time and only fills in the blank for people incapable of doing that themselves. Maybe you need someone telling you what is worth what but I don't.[/QUOTE] It is fine, I think it can be improved upon. There wouldn't be anyone forcing people to use gold as a currency, just the option to do so, in what way is that wrong? It's also useful because instead of carrying 10000 rounds of ammunition to go trade for something and potentially risking losing all of it, you don't suffer any instant loss if someone kills you, you know what I'm saying? it makes trading safer as well. Just because you can't comprehend something pretty basic, doesn't make it a terrible idea. Not going to indulge you anymore, because you're really toxic to talk to. [editline]26th May 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Kurogo;47803727] And bartering has been around far longer than currency. [/QUOTE] As soon as currency existed in the world it completely replaced bartering, and for a reason. People rode horses for far longer than they drove cars too. It's not at all a valid argument.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003] [/QUOTE] Kind of feel like answering the questions and statements you posed. Mrknifey question: Trade something else. Don't have bullets, use gunpowder, rocks, wood, and so on, just use something useful people want. Deadrisen statement: That is essentially removing the decay process. You now have the issue of inflation once again. Speaking of this, you know something that deals with this inflation really well? Useful items that can be consumed or crafted with.(bullets, metal frags, wood..) Thor statement: You do realize someone has to either spawn in items, or spend all their time collecting to usefull resources and giving them for useless resources for anyone to want gold. If such an admin or masochic fool existed, thereby supporting your proposed economy, why would losing 1000 gold as opposed to its equivalent worth 1000 bullets be less of a bad thing. Imagine I just traded my 1000 bullets to you for your 1000 gold. Now on our separate ways home we both get mugged of our inventory. You lost 1000 bullets and I lost 1000 objects I could trade for 1000 bullets to the admin or masochistic fool supporting the value of the gold. This is no safer. Kurogo statement: Many areas still use bartering. The ones that don't are in an area of influence from a centralized organization that takes their wealth(taxes) and guarantees they will reimburse the user with the agreed upon value of the currency. Sadly if everyone in a sphere of influence did this at the same time the organization would suffer a huge loss.

[QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003]Bullets are fine, but what if I want to buy bullets? what do I do then?[/QUOTE] You... trade something that is not bullets to someone in exchange for bullets, in exactly the same way that in RL selling any product or object, or even abstract concepts like IP rights, fundamentally is trading something that is not money to someone in exchange for money. :eng101: Bullets are then a cost-risk balance, as you can use them to barter or to kill. Bullets therefore have an inherent value and people will want bullets if you offer it to them and they do not have tons of bullets already. They will be willing to part with important things because they value bullets. Let's repeat the above scenario in this hypothetical version of Rust with gold ore instead of bullets as the unit of trade, where the gold ore does nothing at all except take up inventory space. Who would want this except to be able to stroke their e-peen over their storage crates full of icons with numbers on them? I'll say it again, make it do [I]something[/I] unique, even just decorative, and the problem goes away. If it's useless, you have to convince others to treat the item as valuable when hoarding the item does nothing for you except give you something to brag about. You just might find that people are very willing to trade gold [I]to[/I] you in exchange for your stuff, but not so willing to [I]accept[/I] gold as a payment for items or gear--that's called being the sucker. Even those [URL="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rai_stones"]stupid-huge stone disks from the island of Yap in Micronesia[/URL] represent the work involved in quarrying and transporting it, and are a sign of social status because they're huge and impressive. Useless inventory items are nothing but a number in a table somewhere in memory on a server with an icon attached. [QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003]It's also useful because instead of carrying 10000 rounds of ammunition to go trade for something and potentially risking losing all of it, you don't suffer any instant loss if someone kills you, you know what I'm saying?[/QUOTE] Wait, why would you not suffer an instant loss if you were killed with the gold equivalent of 10,000 rounds of ammo? You're carrying gold, which you could use to buy the ammo you need, but you don't have it anymore because you just got killed and it was all looted from your body. Other than being so foolish as to take [I]all[/I] of your bullets out at once and then lose them, leaving you unable to shoot at the thief when you track them down for revenge (or to raid someone else for supplies), how is losing the actual ammo itself worse than losing the potential ammo represented in the form of your inert trading item? You're not even applying the same rules to your idea anymore! [QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003]it makes trading safer as well.[/QUOTE] I don't see how it'd make things safer at all since the exchange of wealth is the same whether the wealth is represented by bullets, wood, or gold coins, and as items they can be looted from your corpse. Unless you envision gold to be protected behind some unlootable wallet or something, in which case I direct you to mods [URL="http://garry.tv/2013/06/21/the-story-of-rust/"]because that's not what Rust is about[/URL]. [QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003]Just because you can't comprehend something pretty basic, doesn't make it a terrible idea. Not going to indulge you anymore, because you're really toxic to talk to.[/QUOTE] The irony and hypocrisy is so thick I can smear it on myself and be invisible to thermal sensors. :v: [QUOTE=Fresh Maker;47806003]As soon as currency existed in the world it completely replaced bartering, and for a reason. People rode horses for far longer than they drove cars too. It's not at all a valid argument.[/QUOTE] In real life, you can't carry an entire house's worth of wood on your naked (or clothed) body, so you need some way of transporting large amounts of wealth in compact formats, and carrying signed IOUs from the King to pay for coffee is not practical in today's world. Rust has unrealistic stack numbers. Stop comparing real life to video games when it doesn't make sense.