No clipping - Rust - Facepunch Forum

just wondering if the next problem to focus on for rust should be no clipping. it ruins the game (as most hackers do) and people spend hours gathering resources and materials for people download a hack and take their stuff ill probably get banned from the forums for this but please focus on the real problems we don't need a new map just yet... thank you for you'r time devs this game is awesome keep it going ps. for those of you who do not know what no clipping is it is a major hack going around allowing the user to fly on top of a base and teleport through the walls with ease.

Just so you know, no-clipping isn't teleporting. It is where your model reclassified to a non-player model which allows you move through any object (including other players). At least that is how it functioned in the first FPS engines (Quake, Unreal, Duke Nukem 3D, etc.). I have no idea if that's how it works these days. But that is how it was handled during my old modding days back with the original Half Life.

[QUOTE=DrABK;42656580]Just so you know, no-clipping isn't teleporting. It is where your model reclassified to a non-player model which allows you move through any object (including other players). At least that is how it functioned in the first FPS engines (Quake, Unreal, Duke Nukem 3D, etc.). I have no idea if that's how it works these days. But that is how it was handled during my old modding days back with the original Half Life.[/QUOTE] i was just informed that its basically changed ur x and y to reposition yourself, idk how it is used the point is it is ruining this game and it needs to be fixed we need less hacking not new objects and map details

[QUOTE=Manuel123456;42656641]i was just informed that its basically changed ur x and y to reposition yourself, idk how it is used the point is it is ruining this game and it needs to be fixed we need less hacking not new objects and map details[/QUOTE] Yep. 99% sure that the hackers simply inject and change their coordinates just a couple spaces ahead so they are through obstacles. Had my house looted by a no-clipper for the first time. Was a very bad feeling. :(

THIS MUST STOP... we bought this game with the attention that it was fun although i realize it is in alpha still we payed good money for it. we dont need a new map we need the real issues solved before the game becomes known for having as many hackers as warz. everyone make an effort to try and figure out the names of hackers and post them in the thread for hacker reports put name and what they did the devs need to realize this is an issue

lol just lost all of our shit to a 9 year old named panda, can no clip through anything. because i know people are gonna say "its in alpha, youre only here to test it", how do you test the alpha when you get mauled by hackers every time you build a base? I cant build a base and actually play for more then a day before getting hacked, so please... patch this crap :/

If they're injecting new spacial coordinates, it's not no-clipping. They're treleporting. No-clipping has to do with changing the classification of the player model object. So don't call it "no clipping" because they're "teleporting" which is an entirely different issue. Oh and by the way, I'm just going to wait until either private servers are allowed or some work is done on the hacking because I had 8 hours of gathering resources ruined because of a hacker that teleported in, and stole all my stuff (that I was saving up to do an experiment in the rad zone). So just sit out until the stuff gets dealt with, don't complain to Garry because the devs have their own schedule that they have planned out.

[QUOTE=DrABK;42657969]If they're injecting new spacial coordinates, it's not no-clipping. They're treleporting. No-clipping has to do with changing the classification of the player model object. So don't call it "no clipping" because they're "teleporting" which is an entirely different issue. it dont matter they are doing it and it is wrong Oh and by the way, I'm just going to wait until either private servers are allowed or some work is done on the hacking because I had 8 hours of gathering resources ruined because of a hacker that teleported in, and stole all my stuff (that I was saving up to do an experiment in the rad zone). So just sit out until the stuff gets dealt with.[/QUOTE] it dont matter they are doing it and it is wrong

[QUOTE=DrABK;42657969]If they're injecting new spacial coordinates, it's not no-clipping. They're treleporting. No-clipping has to do with changing the classification of the player model object. So don't call it "no clipping" because they're "teleporting" which is an entirely different issue. Oh and by the way, I'm just going to wait until either private servers are allowed or some work is done on the hacking because I had 8 hours of gathering resources ruined because of a hacker that teleported in, and stole all my stuff (that I was saving up to do an experiment in the rad zone). So just sit out until the stuff gets dealt with, don't complain to Garry because the devs have their own schedule that they have planned out.[/QUOTE] It's the same principle and they go hand in hand.

i kinda give up on this game till this is sorted

[QUOTE=Stacker;42658838]It's the same principle and they go hand in hand.[/QUOTE] Actually NO they are not. They are entirely different and how you have to deal with them is entirely different. Teleporting is an exploit based on injecting new information into a client (as the guy stated above). No-clip is a function built into an engine meant for use in development. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noclip_mode[/url] Read the above. While in some variants you can instance new objects from your camera viewpoint (such as bullets/rockets in Quake/UT), you can't pick things up, i.e. directly interact with the environment. Killing people with bullets is an indirect interaction because your camera isn't interacting with the environment, but rather the object (the bullet) you instanced. The outcome maybe the same, but the cause is very different and could mean the difference between being able to stop said actions and not being able to stop them. I don't know enough about engine coding to do anti-hacking measures but I did use no-clip a fair amount when I had to make maps for my mod.

[QUOTE=DrABK;42660430]Actually NO they are not. They are entirely different and how you have to deal with them is entirely different. Teleporting is an exploit based on injecting new information into a client (as the guy stated above). No-clip is a function built into an engine meant for use in development. [url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noclip_mode[/url] Read the above. While in some variants you can instance new objects from your camera viewpoint (such as bullets/rockets in Quake/UT), you can't pick things up, i.e. directly interact with the environment. Killing people with bullets is an indirect interaction because your camera isn't interacting with the environment, but rather the object (the bullet) you instanced. The outcome maybe the same, but the cause is very different and could mean the difference between being able to stop said actions and not being able to stop them. I don't know enough about engine coding to do anti-hacking measures but I did use no-clip a fair amount when I had to make maps for my mod.[/QUOTE] My mom used to have a gold fish that died. We are talking about shit that doesn't matter right? Hacking needs to be fixed it doesn't matter if its teleporting or no clipping.

[QUOTE=UltraMankill;42660583]My mom used to have a gold fish that died. We are talking about shit that doesn't matter right? Hacking needs to be fixed it doesn't matter if its teleporting or no clipping.[/QUOTE] You're exactly right. Call it what you like, but we all know it needs to be fixed. It's hard to get my friends interested when this game is turning into hacker haven like DayZ.

[video=youtube;IaxytBEAfns]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaxytBEAfns&feature=youtu.be[/video] Yeah stuff like this is just ridiculous!

[QUOTE=timbobzimbob;42657812]lol just lost all of our shit to a 9 year old named panda, can no clip through anything. because i know people are gonna say "its in alpha, youre only here to test it", how do you test the alpha when you get mauled by hackers every time you build a base? I cant build a base and actually play for more then a day before getting hacked, so please... patch this crap :/[/QUOTE] Hey Timbobzimbob funny story I caught the same guy Panda on Stream Check it out! [url]http://www.twitch.tv/froxty/c/3149013[/url]

Looks to me like a noclip unless when you get teleported it literally drags the player model across the map. I think Garry knows what he's doing and doesn't want to have a flop like The WarZ and their hacker issue. Best ways of stopping it are stopping people from injecting into the program full stop or using an external program that runs simultaneously like battle-eye for Arma 2 which requires you to be logged into their server too.

yep no clipped again into our base. video evidence of ANKLETEETH no clipping into our base and killing Chardo 440 this is sure proof i know his priority is set on VAC and steam and that is awesome but can the devs ban the people they know are hacking now??

Doors / walls still disappear for players right now who aren't hacking. Doors fly away depending on issues with the movement logic. Once those are ironed out, and others like it - when it starts being called 'beta' rather then alpha, then i'd be expecting some sort of anti-noclip.

Just logged in and my house has also been robbed. 5 stories, with over 20 metal doors to go through and several different loot rooms every single one has been cleared out. So we build for security so we dont get robbed and thats exactly what happen.

Building for the sake of defense against being raided and/or protected while offline with a character in-game in sleeper mode is pointless right now.

[QUOTE=Cik;42664522]Building for the sake of defense against being raided and/or protected while offline with a character in-game in sleeper mode is pointless right now.[/QUOTE] Yes because of hackers.

Just to solve the above argument about noclipping, I have worked with Unity. I know how this stuff works, so let me explain. In Source engine and most other Quake-derivative engines, there is a special "noclip" feature. This feature places you in flying mode and disables all collision, allowing you to fly around the map and through walls and obstacles. It was designed for development and debugging, but was of course used as an exploit by players. In Unity engine, there is no such feature. Noclipping does not exist, at least not in the same form. In most Unity games, noclipping is equivalent to simply injecting position (you can easily specify any position, even if it's in the middle of a wall). So yes, it's exactly the same thing as teleporting. The thing is, in Unity unless your character moves it will not resolve collisions with anything. So even if your character is in the middle of a wall, so long as the character doesn't move (except for teleportation), it won't pop out of the wall. This makes teleportation a fairly easy method of noclipping.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42665812]Just to solve the above argument about noclipping, I have worked with Unity. I know how this stuff works, so let me explain. In Source engine and most other Quake-derivative engines, there is a special "noclip" feature. This feature places you in flying mode and disables all collision, allowing you to fly around the map and through walls and obstacles. It was designed for development and debugging, but was of course used as an exploit by players. In Unity engine, there is no such feature. Noclipping does not exist, at least not in the same form. In most Unity games, noclipping is equivalent to simply injecting position (you can easily specify any position, even if it's in the middle of a wall). So yes, it's exactly the same thing as teleporting. The thing is, in Unity unless your character moves it will not resolve collisions with anything. So even if your character is in the middle of a wall, so long as the character doesn't move (except for teleportation), it won't pop out of the wall. This makes teleportation a fairly easy method of noclipping.[/QUOTE] so is there a method of fixing it??

[QUOTE=Manuel123456;42666664]so is there a method of fixing it??[/QUOTE] Yes. The idea is that the server handles all movement calculations, rather than the client. Client simply sends keyboard commands rather than actual position. This solves no clipping, teleportation, ninja stepping, and most every other cheat, but results in increased workload for the server.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42666734]Yes. The idea is that the server handles all movement calculations, rather than the client. Client simply sends keyboard commands rather than actual position. This solves no clipping, teleportation, ninja stepping, and most every other cheat, but results in increased workload for the server.[/QUOTE] Won't the vac stop this once on steam.

[QUOTE=UltraMankill;42666970]Won't the vac stop this once on steam.[/QUOTE] Not really, no. VAC is purely clientside. Almost by definition, that makes it insecure. I've also heard that it is very easy to circumvent. In order to really have security, it has to be on the server. That's the only machine which can be trusted.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42666990]Not really, no. VAC is purely clientside. Almost by definition, that makes it insecure. I've also heard that it is very easy to circumvent. In order to really have security, it has to be on the server. That's the only machine which can be trusted.[/QUOTE] It can't even stop Cheat engine because that is what people are using.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42666734]Yes. The idea is that the server handles all movement calculations, rather than the client. Client simply sends keyboard commands rather than actual position. This solves no clipping, teleportation, ninja stepping, and most every other cheat, but results in increased workload for the server.[/QUOTE] I already knew this was the solution but it ends up costing the server too much to operate on the scale this game is going to run. Short of Garry running the servers himself in the end and working it as an MMO, making the game server side, isn't a solution. KillaMaaki, while the end result is the same, "teleporting" and "no clip" are two different things as you stated. It's important to differentiate between the two because in the ID and Unreal engines (and their derivatives), there is [I]also[/I] a teleport function beyond the no clip. I wasn't sure if the Unity engine used a no-clip or not but I know almost ALL engines feature a teleport function simply because it makes the development process MUCH easier.

[QUOTE=KillaMaaki;42666990]Not really, no. VAC is purely clientside. Almost by definition, that makes it insecure. I've also heard that it is very easy to circumvent. In order to really have security, it has to be on the server. That's the only machine which can be trusted.[/QUOTE] It works in waves, like Blizzard's warden software. There's an unpublished update that gives them the ability to detect current hacks, and all of the downloaders get a nice ban. The real hackers tend to get away with it because they tend to know what is going on. Then modify their hacks to get around it again. Rinse and repeat.

People the REAL security in games IS and ALWAYS will be good administration of servers. Because of the existence of injectors, coding against hacking is nearly impossible. The best way to take care of hackers is simply to have good mod's that work to make sure cheaters are removed (temporarily or permanently). This is one of the BIGGEST reasons why community run static servers were always a big must have in any non-MMO game. It's why the PC community HATED CoD:MW2, because there was almost no recourse against hackers other than to just leave the game and try to find another (also look up Combat Arms and it's "Hacker War", which got soooo bad at one point that the ENTIRE community quit the game for a month because there wasn't a SINGLE game that didn't have 3-4 hackers in it). The only REAL way hacking will return to the levels that existed back in the late 90's and early 2000's will be for a company to go out and sue someone making and selling cheating programs. Because 95% of the kiddies with them, bought them and couldn't hope to ever make them on their own.