Two steps forward, one step back - Tool Cupboards - Rust

From today [quote]test change with tool cupboards, they no longer block building ( but are required for demolish, rotate etc) - @helkus (/main)[/quote] urgh, why guys? This worked so well. So, so well. Build siege tools to compensate as this change is just silly. Let me spell out what's going to happen now: * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing There should be tools to compensate for it.

you could just demolish the grief while they do it ? and they will just waste materials

Grief should not be a problem this has already been addressed with Helkus (maurio FP dev) bugs [6:41 PM] maurino just confirmed, eldest cupboard has priority bugs [6:41 PM] putting a cupboard next to an existing one shouldnt do anything

[QUOTE=Cantinflas;46988491]you could just demolish the grief while they do it ? and they will just waste materials[/QUOTE] Doesn't really work if you're not there. [editline]23rd January 2015[/editline] Shouldn't allow foundations to be attached to yours. If that's the plan, i'm fine with it.

[QUOTE=infusednz;46988588]Doesn't really work if you're not there.[/QUOTE] But you can remove it once you log on, if they have not got to your tool cupboard. [editline]22nd January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=infusednz;46988588] [editline]23rd January 2015[/editline] Shouldn't allow foundations to be attached to yours. If that's the plan, i'm fine with it.[/QUOTE] From what i can tell, there will be No building restrictions so raiders will be able to place foundations next to yours,

Worst thing about those griefers is that in most cases they never pretend to play the game. A group agrees upon visiting a certain server, fuck things up and leave...just to find a next server to mess around. Unfortunately in some cases (emphasizing [B]some[/B]), the server hosts nationality plays a major role there. I know about a bunch of koreans loving to kill US-servers. Not because it's a challenge, they just do it trying to show some superiority. Ruining servers with a suitable timezone is a piece of cake^^ Many german servers were flooded with russians attempting to revive World War II memories. They never built a home, they never really hunted, crafted or farmed anything. They didn't raid either. All they did was visiting server1, block doors on all houses they could find, visit server2, block all entrances, visit server3 aso... One bad thing about the tool cupboard was making old school honest raiding almost impossible. Best thing about it was to disallow cheap griefing. Hope that something will substitute the cupboard again asap, thinking about recieving the upcoming update makes me shiver.

This is a great change. Stops griefing but allows more creative raiding and keeps people from becoming invulnerable. Now they just need to fix the wall/tool raiding balance and glitches.

Hold the fire. RustUpdates @RustUpdates · 47s 48 seconds ago sadly reverted change to tool cupboards, they now block building again ( until we're ready for this change ) - @helkus (/main) But it's coming :)

[QUOTE=kulan;46989006]Hold the fire. RustUpdates @RustUpdates · 47s 48 seconds ago sadly reverted change to tool cupboards, they now block building again ( until we're ready for this change ) - @helkus (/main) But it's coming :)[/QUOTE] Now how many steps is that? In what directions?! I'm confused as to where we are standing at this point...

Hmm...will be interested to see how this works out. I would rather see raiding tools like ladders and scaffolding. That would be a much better solution to this issue. I would be okay with people building around my base if I could recoup the parts or some wood from having to tear it all down.

they should have called this version experimental or something since they keep experimenting with new functionality all the time.

Unless they create decent defences this idea is crap

[QUOTE=frank_walls;46989049]Hmm...will be interested to see how this works out. I would rather see raiding tools like ladders and scaffolding. That would be a much better solution to this issue. I would be okay with people building around my base if I could recoup the parts or some wood from having to tear it all down.[/QUOTE] That's the point i'm trying to make. The tool cupboard doesn't need to be changed. You're all like, it's ok, you can remove raiders stuff when you get on... uhh, I don't think you've seen some of the griefing on servers before. Add things like ladders and tools which allow you to raid. All this change does is make it too easy and allowing griefing... [QUOTE=riyadmarhez;46989056]they should have called this version experimental or something since they keep experimenting with new functionality all the time.[/QUOTE] I think it's getting passed that point now. It's heading to a baseline, then they will experiment.

Nice! This will make raiding creative again. I agree with momosan that some defense needs to be there in return though. Oh Facepunch, I love you.

[QUOTE=infusednz;46990032]That's the point i'm trying to make. The tool cupboard doesn't need to be changed. You're all like, it's ok, you can remove raiders stuff when you get on... uhh, I don't think you've seen some of the griefing on servers before. Add things like ladders and tools which allow you to raid. All this change does is make it too easy and allowing griefing... I think it's getting passed that point now. It's heading to a baseline, then they will experiment.[/QUOTE] I don't care if someone encases my entire base in a box of 1/2 blocks if I can remove them. It only becomes griefing when you can't remove it. As long as they can ONLY build and not demolish pieces I don't really care. In Legacy I played on servers with Oxide and would just remove the crap people built, then I'd have all the parts for myself! In fact I used to leave exposed areas on purpose in order to get extra building parts. It always worked. Everytime I'd log on there'd free foundations and stairs for me!

That just makes the game retarded imo. We should be having battles and raiding. Not building stupid walls/cubes/whatever around someones base.

Good news for some: [url]https://twitter.com/RustUpdates/status/558349859766685696[/url] I'm kind of on the fence about all this. I think we should try removing the cupboard, but I also agree with the team that we need to wait til we get a few more base defense options.

Preventing building is a major problem, if you cant see that then you A. dont play much B. have a house on a rock and dont want it to change. The maps are filled with people building cubes around their base just to block access to others, and people building on unclimbable rocks. Personally, I would like to go back to the legacy system but have a control panel that you can change permissions on. either in the house that you build or in the tab menu.

[QUOTE=RaaR;46991321]Preventing building is a major problem, if you cant see that then you A. dont play much B. have a house on a rock and dont want it to change. The maps are filled with people building cubes around their base just to block access to others, and people building on unclimbable rocks. Personally, I would like to go back to the legacy system but have a control panel that you can change permissions on. either in the house that you build or in the tab menu.[/QUOTE] That's why you need raiding tools, IE ladders. Defeats your entire argument. Isn't that better and more realistic?

[QUOTE=infusednz;46991216]That just makes the game retarded imo. We should be having battles and raiding. Not building stupid walls/cubes/whatever around someones base.[/QUOTE] We should be allowed to do what we want. You just want to "be having battles and raiding" then go for it. If someone wants to encase my house in walls go ahead. If someone wants to run around rubbing their wiener on people be my guest!

[QUOTE=Ratskrone;46988887]Worst thing about those griefers is that in most cases they never pretend to play the game. A group agrees upon visiting a certain server, fuck things up and leave...just to find a next server to mess around. Unfortunately in some cases (emphasizing [B]some[/B]), the server hosts nationality plays a major role there. I know about a bunch of koreans loving to kill US-servers. Not because it's a challenge, they just do it trying to show some superiority. Ruining servers with a suitable timezone is a piece of cake^^ Many german servers were flooded with russians attempting to revive World War II memories. They never built a home, they never really hunted, crafted or farmed anything. They didn't raid either. All they did was visiting server1, block doors on all houses they could find, visit server2, block all entrances, visit server3 aso... One bad thing about the tool cupboard was making old school honest raiding almost impossible. Best thing about it was to disallow cheap griefing. Hope that something will substitute the cupboard again asap, thinking about recieving the upcoming update makes me shiver.[/QUOTE] You do realize all you had to do in legacy to prevent door grief was place a foundation in front of the door with one pillar front and center right? The cupboard was a broken piece of shit and this was a good change.

[QUOTE=infusednz;46988409]From today urgh, why guys? This worked so well. So, so well. Build siege tools to compensate as this change is just silly. Let me spell out what's going to happen now: * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing * Griefing There should be tools to compensate for it.[/QUOTE] How did you fail to understand that when you have the tool cupboard activated, you're allowed to demolish?? Griefing is a non issue.

I think I am following the fp direction. Rust appears to be about owning nothing but your fighting skill and clan life. Allow me to quickly get what I need to be competitive at various levels with various groups. The base or bases you build are really nothing but strategic outposts to support your developing battles. If I die or my base is raided its back at it in the survive to battle arena. The super base is being made obsolete. It's shack to shack as you build your arsenal. You seek the group to join as they prepare for the next epic clan vs. clan battle. Login and get at it ladies and gents... Prepare for the battle.

[QUOTE=infusednz;46991337]That's why you need raiding tools, IE ladders. Defeats your entire argument. Isn't that better and more realistic?[/QUOTE] A magical box that prevents people from building. Realistic? Check! I would like to see raiding tools though.

All this will mean is a return to the silly looking foundation and pillar structures around your base. Surely there is a better Idea ? How about leave the building system alone and concentrate on getting C4 back into the game ?

[QUOTE=donkeypunch;46991919]You do realize all you had to do in legacy to prevent door grief was place a foundation in front of the door with one pillar front and center right? The cupboard was a broken piece of shit and this was a good change.[/QUOTE] Yes, i remember all of us surrounding our bases with mountain-high defense pillars. Looked ridiculous, but it did the job. Unlike in legacy, experimental version allows attaching any parts directly to any foreign structure. Defense pillars in experimental do nothing unless you are satisfied with a 2x2 home with useless footballfield-sized areas all around it. In legacy we had to travel to hacker valley in order to find a suitable area to build more than a 15x15, in experimental you can cover that area almost everywhere. I also remember door griefers placing furnaces (were indestructible) in front of every door they could find. When the cupboard was introduced (also indestructible at that time), griefers used the cupboard instead. At the same time, people built funny things...like pyramids surrounded with hundreds of cupboards on each floor and boxes on the top. Once again it did the job, but it was far away from playing a survival game. Disallowing griefers to mess up a base and allowing creative raids at the same time will not be easy for FP, but disabling the only defensive tool available at this very moment (without replacement) seems to favorize all these "lets-kill-a-server" and "lets-raid-in-five-minutes" dudes.

[QUOTE=A. James;46992397]How did you fail to understand that when you have the tool cupboard activated, you're allowed to demolish?? Griefing is a non issue.[/QUOTE] Because everyday you're going to be cleaning up hundreds of foundations and pillars. Do you not remember legacy? [QUOTE=momosan;46995599]All this will mean is a return to the silly looking foundation and pillar structures around your base. Surely there is a better Idea ? How about leave the building system alone and concentrate on getting C4 back into the game ?[/QUOTE] Exactly. And what did that do? Lag out the entire server with massive bases.

The cupboard was an embarrassing atrocity. I had to do a double-take to be sure there were actually legitimate community members [B]defending[/B] the existence of no-build ownership zones. Demolish is the appropriate tool for undoing griefing attempts. I've never seen griefing that couldn't be demolished in a few minutes. Working efficiently and using stability you could demolish a small city in 10-15 minutes, and only a dedicated stalker would repeatedly devote hours of harvesting and building time to cost you 15 minutes of tedium. Instead of magical defense zones that help create unraidable bases on rocks and promote architectural masturbation, Rust should be working towards recapturing the good aspects of Legacy raiding: the challenge (both offense and defense). There's no strategy in standing around with your finger on the mouse button while you websurf in another window. There's no challenge in what raiding in Rust currently consists of... otherwise known as "not raiding". The reason we ended up with a static bottleneck of pillar forests around bases as the go-to defense is because Legacy wasn't being developed anymore. Experimental doesn't have that problem, or that excuse.

[QUOTE=frank_walls;46991400]We should be allowed to do what we want. You just want to "be having battles and raiding" then go for it. If someone wants to encase my house in walls go ahead. If someone wants to run around rubbing their wiener on people be my guest![/QUOTE] You'll never be able to ever do what you want unless you have your own server, i saw this demonstrated on recently a "PARTICULAR" server who banned a group or player who was building "SWASTIKAS", the reason for the ban was these people of the server seem to [B]still[/B] think it was a symbol of hate (i even explained that it was symbol of peace to some religions like Buddhism), and they said the player was building it for "MALICIOUS" intent, sounds like a fascist reason to ban them i said, isn't [B]raiding[/B] a "MALICIOUS" intent too? i asked, i even asked if i built The Hammer of Thor(also known as a swastika) a symbol of my religion would i be banned too? no they said. I never mentioned that my building of it would be for malicious intent to create a raiding group. But it seemed pointless to ask, their poor education of the WWI and II events revealed their programmed educational prejudices. Needless to say i don't think they like me that much anymore. Not that i care. I have no room for people with poor education in my realm of concern. So that said you'll never be free to do what you want in Rust unless you have your own server or a friend does.

I'm sad to see this go back, now I have to resort to putting shit all around my base again so people can't build up to it....sooooo lame.