Idea for Admins of Servers - (Need Opinions) (Jail - Probation - For Life) - Rust

* Idea for admins of "new spawn" friendly servers, or servers based off the PvE format - (Need Opinions) (Jail - Probation - For Life) I understand that these type of threads really annoy the hell out of players that love to KOS, love to war, and feel that killing is just as much a part of rust as collecting resources. If that's how you feel, this thread is not for you. You can dumb vote and move on, but I really want opinions from players that really don't like the concept of KOS, griefing, and running around playing deathmatch. Is killing bad? Not in all cases. My idea: A jail system (which is possible). This is actually a very simple system and if you have active admins, it's no big deal. If a person feels he is KOSed, he can press charges. What that means is, he can contact an admin and let him know that he wants to press charges. Does that mean all players will press charges? Nope. Does that mean that pressing charges means you are automatically right? Nope. Does that mean pressing charges will get him thrown in jail immediately? Nope. As a server admin, I am noticing the only complaints we get are all from players that within 30 minutes, have more kills than half the server (yes you can log this). Once the log shows signs that a player is killing excessively and there are complaints to back up what is happening, he is put on trial? What is trial? 1 second of my typing, /jail "playername". That's the trail. What does it mean when you are placed in jail on the server? It means you cannot suicide out and if you log off you get banned (you no longer give a crap about this awful piece of crap server that is so lame that they put you in jail for some whiny guy that is playing rust to gather and build rather than kill and stalk). If you stay in jail and right your wrongs, eventually getting released, you are then on parole. Whether we add parole to your name (maybe a trophy like reward for the rebels) or not would be neat, but you are now on parole. You stay on parole for maybe 2 days, and then it is taken out of your name. If you KOS again, repeat and rinse. However, if you kill while on parole, you are in jail for life. BANNED. Now before you guys all jump down my throat with how stupid this idea is, please understand that the server I help with has 2 bans Both happened to be picked up by anti-hack plugins, both happen to say that the plug-ins are wrong. However, what isn't wrong is that both of them had over 9 kills within the first 30 minutes of playing. Maybe they do not understand the rules, maybe they do not get that KOSing is looked down on in the server I help with, but the jail term gives them a chance to decide if this is the community for them to play with. I've heard, "Well as a group, everyone go after the guy who is KOSing." Well, that's exactly why the guy is griefing to begin with. He wants attention and enjoys being an asshole/not part of the community but against it. So rather than us not working as a group by randomly chasing some guy around giving him what he wants, throw him jail. And if you are into the experience, I do believe that any group of players working together will have a jail system. It's realistic. My idea for rust is to grow into a group and work together to rebuild your base and a community. Not randomly kill people and play deathmatch. But, I know I am the minority. Players already on the server, your thoughts!!!! Players that like PvE, or more friendly servers, your thoughts! Players that think KOSing is part of the game, you can share but that's not what I enjoy in rust. I am looking for like-mind players to enjoy my experience with. That's all.

The server i admin for has a prison system close to this. When a player has gotten a few warnings about the same conduct they are sent to prison for 30 minutes. (while in prison, suicide is disabled, you can not die of hunger, you can not be damaged, and you can not teleport. and you are muted from all chat. and should you log off to wait out the time, the timer pauses until you return) and for most offenders this does the trick and they learn. some of them have been sent back a second time but not many. Hard core repeat offenders are left in there to rot forever and are forgotten about

People would just leave the server and find another one if they got jailed. It's a decent concept, but not for this game.

[QUOTE=TwistedTryce;44552957]The server i admin for has a prison system close to this. When a player has gotten a few warnings about the same conduct they are sent to prison for 30 minutes. (while in prison, suicide is disabled, you can not die of hunger, you can not be damaged, and you can not teleport. and you are muted from all chat. and should you log off to wait out the time, the timer pauses until you return) and for most offenders this does the trick and they learn. some of them have been sent back a second time but not many. Hard core repeat offenders are left in there to rot forever and are forgotten about[/QUOTE] How does the community feel about it? Is this something that is considered admin abuse? [editline]15th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MrTHC;44553033]People would just leave the server and find another one if they got jailed. It's a decent concept, but not for this game.[/QUOTE] Well, that's kind of the point. Like with forums, Rust has created a popular "troll" mentality. People hop in servers just to ruffle feathers, especially in the more friendly servers. Of course, if anyone speaks up for being KOSed multiple times, the shooters response is "cry baby, maybe this game isn't for you." That is all the part of the "troll" though. The KOSing was done on purpose to create that response. Jail is what it is. They leave or they sit in jail and decide whether or not the server is for them. If they aren't trying to troll and ruffle feathers, they will adjust their game play accordingly.

[QUOTE=thelionnessa;44553134]How does the community feel about it? Is this something that is considered admin abuse? [editline]15th April 2014[/editline] Our community does not consider it admin abuse because we use it on trolls, cheaters and douche bags. We want a community that can at least hold a civil conversation without resorting to the childish internet, and 4chan crap. The admins usually get cheered for putting a troll in their place because they know its one less stress for them while they game. The only ones that scream admin abuse are the ass wipes in prison, and no one can hear them anyway. Well, that's kind of the point. Like with forums, Rust has created a popular "troll" mentality. People hop in servers just to ruffle feathers, especially in the more friendly servers. Of course, if anyone speaks up for being KOSed multiple times, the shooters response is "cry baby, maybe this game isn't for you." That is all the part of the "troll" though. The KOSing was done on purpose to create that response. Jail is what it is. They leave or they sit in jail and decide whether or not the server is for them. If they aren't trying to troll and ruffle feathers, they will adjust their game play accordingly.[/QUOTE] [editline]15th April 2014[/editline] Not sure why that post listed my response as part of what i quoted from you.... hmm @MrTHC we have had many leave the server due to being put in prison. but a small handful have actually stayed despite the punishment, around 10 i think. So i dont think its failing.

I like this. Feels like just about every server is KOS these days...

There's a Magma plugin for this developed by a fellow who goes by Fraccas. [url]http://gomagma.org/community/index.php?resources/jail-plugin.97/[/url] Recently released, working great so far.

Twisted, I will probably be trying your server soon. Sounds awesome.

I love this idea but I think something like this will end up coming as a mod rather than coded into the game.

Yea, this type of thing probably will never be in vanilla. The mods can already do it. The parole part would be just basic admining, as well as sending the person to jail. I've read that if someone curses in a PG server, it will detect the curse word and teleport the person to jail for 10 minutes. While in jail you cannot suicide, leave, talk, nothing. Then after 10 minutes you teleport back to the same spot you were. Really neat idea (not the cursing part, as I do not mind language, but just the functionality of some of these mods).

How would you go about killing someone then? If I want to go out with a M4 and steal some stuff, do I need to find someone, walk up to him, tell him I'm going to kill him, then kill him?

[QUOTE=Foorun;44554489]How would you go about killing someone then? If I want to go out with a M4 and steal some stuff, do I need to find someone, walk up to him, tell him I'm going to kill him, then kill him?[/QUOTE] I don't know, I would be the last person to give advice on how to be a better killing bandit on a friendly server. I'd say if you want to go out and randomly kill people with a m4 while you steal, join a server that is okay with people KOSing. That is what, 99% of the servers? On that 1% that do not allow KOS, find other ways to get your resources. Even on friendly servers with pvp on, there are times to kill. If someone is holding a gun, if someone is trying to raid you, if someone is harrassing you or hanging outside of your place, if someone is looting the same Rad town. Rad towns are not safe areas. If someone is KOSing and you see that person, it's open season on him as well.

Did no one see my post above about the Magma plugin? It does just about everything you're asking for.

[QUOTE=.phase;44554796]Did no one see my post above about the Magma plugin? It does just about everything you're asking for.[/QUOTE] Yes. There is also one on oxide as well. Simply called "Jail".

Our servers owner just moded the scripts on a Zone mod to allow jail functions. We have a pvp and a pve server, the jail is set up and running well on both.

Punishment for anarchy on a survival game? lol

Wow. Whats the point of PvE, I've never ever figured it out. How can it be fun? And the same thing goes for role playing. The feeling when you kill a kevlar guy when naked, the jackpot-feeling while you loot this guy you killed with a revolver, or a bow. The win of a big fight. All the loot. Don't get me wrong, i've tried this pve thingy, but it was so amazingly boring i almost went outside to jump of a bridge. Same thing goes for people who want's single player mode, you would go mentally crazy after 2 hours, talking to the animals in game. This is actually a question, and my opinions on these things. Please quote me and write your answer.

"Punishment for anarchy on a survival game? lol" Not at all, its punishment for not following the rules on a private server. @HEALVUR There are too many reasons to name, however it is always fun standing on the pve side of the fence and taunting the pvpers when they join your server, knowing they have no power there. Before anyone starts flapping allow me to explain that i prefer pvp servers, but i also recognize that many people on pvp servers give in to their baser instincts of being a dick, so a pve server gives the "builder" gamers a chance to have their fun while taunting the pvp crowd for being weak and powerless.

[QUOTE=Oxameter;44562543]Punishment for anarchy on a survival game? lol[/QUOTE] Good times! [editline]16th April 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=HEALVUR;44562738]Wow. Whats the point of PvE, I've never ever figured it out. How can it be fun? And the same thing goes for role playing. The feeling when you kill a kevlar guy when naked, the jackpot-feeling while you loot this guy you killed with a revolver, or a bow. The win of a big fight. All the loot. Don't get me wrong, i've tried this pve thingy, but it was so amazingly boring i almost went outside to jump of a bridge. Same thing goes for people who want's single player mode, you would go mentally crazy after 2 hours, talking to the animals in game. This is actually a question, and my opinions on these things. Please quote me and write your answer.[/QUOTE] Good thing we all have different tastes and likes I guess. Otherwise we'd have one drink, one food type, one pair of pants, and one game the whole world all plays exactly the same.

[QUOTE=thelionnessa;44552627]* Idea for admins of "new spawn" friendly servers, or servers based off the PvE format - (Need Opinions) (Jail - Probation - For Life) I understand that these type of threads really annoy the hell out of players that love to KOS, love to war, and feel that killing is just as much a part of rust as collecting resources. If that's how you feel, this thread is not for you. You can dumb vote and move on, but I really want opinions from players that really don't like the concept of KOS, griefing, and running around playing deathmatch. Is killing bad? Not in all cases. My idea: A jail system (which is possible). This is actually a very simple system and if you have active admins, it's no big deal. If a person feels he is KOSed, he can press charges. What that means is, he can contact an admin and let him know that he wants to press charges. Does that mean all players will press charges? Nope. Does that mean that pressing charges means you are automatically right? Nope. Does that mean pressing charges will get him thrown in jail immediately? Nope. As a server admin, I am noticing the only complaints we get are all from players that within 30 minutes, have more kills than half the server (yes you can log this). Once the log shows signs that a player is killing excessively and there are complaints to back up what is happening, he is put on trial? What is trial? 1 second of my typing, /jail "playername". That's the trail. What does it mean when you are placed in jail on the server? It means you cannot suicide out and if you log off you get banned (you no longer give a crap about this awful piece of crap server that is so lame that they put you in jail for some whiny guy that is playing rust to gather and build rather than kill and stalk). If you stay in jail and right your wrongs, eventually getting released, you are then on parole. Whether we add parole to your name (maybe a trophy like reward for the rebels) or not would be neat, but you are now on parole. You stay on parole for maybe 2 days, and then it is taken out of your name. If you KOS again, repeat and rinse. However, if you kill while on parole, you are in jail for life. BANNED. Now before you guys all jump down my throat with how stupid this idea is, please understand that the server I help with has 2 bans Both happened to be picked up by anti-hack plugins, both happen to say that the plug-ins are wrong. However, what isn't wrong is that both of them had over 9 kills within the first 30 minutes of playing. Maybe they do not understand the rules, maybe they do not get that KOSing is looked down on in the server I help with, but the jail term gives them a chance to decide if this is the community for them to play with. I've heard, "Well as a group, everyone go after the guy who is KOSing." Well, that's exactly why the guy is griefing to begin with. He wants attention and enjoys being an asshole/not part of the community but against it. So rather than us not working as a group by randomly chasing some guy around giving him what he wants, throw him jail. And if you are into the experience, I do believe that any group of players working together will have a jail system. It's realistic. My idea for rust is to grow into a group and work together to rebuild your base and a community. Not randomly kill people and play deathmatch. But, I know I am the minority. Players already on the server, your thoughts!!!! Players that like PvE, or more friendly servers, your thoughts! Players that think KOSing is part of the game, you can share but that's not what I enjoy in rust. I am looking for like-mind players to enjoy my experience with. That's all.[/QUOTE] People buy a server, they have the right to make their own rules. If you don't like those rules don't play on that server or make your own and have your own rules. I could understand your idea for a MMO game, where there aren't any sort of admins persay. MMO's also have punishments. Rust isn't really an MMO, its just not that type of game. Its obviously a survival game, and if you don't have that feel, then i don't really understand what you think you're playing.

I have no idea what you mean. KOSing is not a part of survival at all. That's 100% a creation of being able to respawn, a generation of deathmatch and trolling online. Everyone wants Rust to be mad max. And nothing is wrong with pretend hollywood fairy tales in games, but not all of us believe that's how it would be. Different ideas for different people. Thankfully we are not all the same, as what you think you are playing gives me absolutely no thrill at all. I get the same thrill playing deathmatch on a console (which I don't do anymore). Sorry.

" KOSing is not part of survival at all." Most things are subjective but this is completely wrong. If you are dead then you can't kill me, if you can't kill me, I will survive. If I KOS you and you're carrying things I need, I'm surviving by increasing my gear and chances to live. KOSing is part of surviving, point blank. Some may not like the aspect and will build game modes to avoid it, which is totally fine. But to say KOSing isn't part of survival is completely incorrect. If that were the case then why do people play games like Half Life, Gears of War, Halo, GTA, and any other shooter? They KOS to survive because killing is the most primal aspect of survival.

[QUOTE=almosttactful;44565595]" KOSing is not part of survival at all." Most things are subjective but this is completely wrong. If you are dead then you can't kill me, if you can't kill me, I will survive. If I KOS you and you're carrying things I need, I'm surviving by increasing my gear and chances to live. KOSing is part of surviving, point blank. Some may not like the aspect and will build game modes to avoid it, which is totally fine. But to say KOSing isn't part of survival is completely incorrect. If that were the case then why do people play games like Half Life, Gears of War, Halo, GTA, and any other shooter? They KOS to survive because killing is the most primal aspect of survival.[/QUOTE] Bad analogy. Those games actively promote kos, as thats the whole point of their scoring system. Here, there is no scpring system to promote such. It all comes down to personal play style. I really think this game is a psychological study that shows the true nature of some people. KOS is not a requirement, its a choice.

lol not allowed to kill people? or else you go to jail for hours of real life time hmm.... kos is a term of RP server, if this is RP than there should be cops that have to catch you, not an admin who teleports you to jail... this idea is just lol

[QUOTE=thelionnessa;44552627]<...is so lame that they put you in jail for some whiny guy that is playing rust to gather and build rather than kill and stalk...>[/QUOTE] The most truthful part of this post. This game is supposed to be survival/PvP, because no serious threats emerge from PvE part of the game, so it wouldn't be a survival then and just a Sims game for little girls. Of course this will never happen but if it did, game would lose more community then they would gain.

[QUOTE=almosttactful;44565595]" KOSing is not part of survival at all." Most things are subjective but this is completely wrong. If you are dead then you can't kill me, if you can't kill me, I will survive. If I KOS you and you're carrying things I need, I'm surviving by increasing my gear and chances to live. KOSing is part of surviving, point blank. Some may not like the aspect and will build game modes to avoid it, which is totally fine. But to say KOSing isn't part of survival is completely incorrect. If that were the case then why do people play games like Half Life, Gears of War, Halo, GTA, and any other shooter? They KOS to survive because killing is the most primal aspect of survival.[/QUOTE] If KOSing happens, the person who killed is killed in response (eye for an eye) and Darwin has worked his magic. The stupidity and flawed thought of KOS is gone, and the rest of the group learns why that is the dumbest possible way to "survive", because you don't survive. I have seen trolls/PvP guys come in servers and kill a few nakeds, then run into a decent player and die. At that point, he is done. I don't agree with giving him 20 more chances to "survive" / grief / troll / KOS / or play the "reality of survival is you have to deal with dumb asses like me, except I am immortal". He didn't make it and his technique (apparently your absolute truth) failed. He chose the dumbest possible avenue of survival, KOSed a few people and typed in the room how everyone sucks, then got killed by some guy with a bow who has been gathering wood all day. At that point, the crazy is dealt with and he shouldn't get 20 more chances to try and ruin the environment/civilization. Done. So does KOSing exist in survival? Yes, as an obstacle. Once the obstacle is dealt with, the surviving aspect of rebuilding a civilization comes back into play. The people really surviving can go back to trading, gathering, and growing (and also jail random bandits that act uncivilized). That's survival. It may not be fun to the run and gun generation of respawns, deathmatch, and ideas of mad max being a reality, but it's survival. This is also why PvP is allowed in servers like our, because it is a reality. However, once a person has shown he is crazy, KOSes, he is thrown in jail or removed from the world (eye for an eye). The players in world continue to grow and build without worrying about the flaw/troll/KOS from the same guy again and again and again and again. There is no-one on any pvp / arena style server that has "survived". Even when a guy goes on a 40 "kill streak" (hilarious that this video game talk of "headshots" and "killstreaks" is even mentioned in the same breath as survival or realistic), he eventually dies. Everyone playing your Hollywood Mad Max version of "survival" failed. No-one survives without a respawn. There is 0 survival rate. How is that survival when no-one survives. That's deathmatch with the idea of you can build your own paint gun fort first to hide your 200 guns and 1000 ammo in. I know the testosterone is blinding and war is awesome, and kos is fun, but it's not survival. It's deathmatch. The respawns make it possible.

[QUOTE]There is no-one on any pvp server that has "survived". Even when a guy goes on a 40 "kill streak" (hilarious that this video game talk of "headshots" and "killstreaks" is even mentioned in the same breath as survival or realistic), he eventually dies. Everyone playing your Hollywood Mad Max version of "survival" failed. No-one survives without a respawn. There is 0 survival rate. How is that survival when no-one survives. [/QUOTE] I'm afraid i disagree with this. When 4 kevlars chase me through a forest and i give them the slip.. I survived. When i lived long enough to need food and beat a bambii with a rock.. i also survived. I am surviving now as a human being, needless to say i will die both in-game and not. The fun of this game is what you do surviving while you're alive, that means after you respawn or not. Also the point of a game for some people is to escape reality. We can't go hunting people in irl so we do it in a game. I personally don't KOS if i can help it, however if i even think i'm in danger by someones presence game over for them. In my opinion if the server does not facilitate to stop KOS. Then KOS should be allowed in all its glory and form regardless of how aggravated the victim becomes.

I have no problem with escaping reality, deathmatch, pvp (it's 99% of the servers), or the mad max style of play. What you described above is what I'd consider the "obstacle" of KOSing. It's on every server, including the PvE servers that still have killing activated. Because you always have someone who wants to kill kill kill. I also enjoy the rush of not knowing if I will make it back to my place because some player on the server snapped and decided he would make his last stand. There are 6000 servers where you can hunt for people and pretend to be mad max. There are 60 where I can pretend to be the castaway. Both are an escape from reality. PvP is the most outrageous example of survival, killing and respawning over and over but feeling like you survived because you had a sleeping bag that saved you from being lost in the woods. If you do happen to die within 4 minutes, you f1 suicide to get back to your sleeping bag a minute later. Now you are back in your base and can grab another gun and go kill/die again. Eventually though, you make a few friends, build a great base, and you truly survived. Until another group uses C4, blows your walls up while you are in bed irl, and kills you and your friends sleeping in your stash room. I get it, it's fun and exciting. Anarchy. Head shots. Kill streaks. Air drops. Explosives. Death match with forts. It's fun and popular because of it's outrageous idea. I think the problem is, those people that play the style above seem to want to force that idea onto players that do not feel it's survival. If you disagree, disagree. It's not the style of play. I don't jump into threads or youtube videos playing PvP and say how that's WRONG. This is a thread I created so I am defending my ideas of game play and what's fun to me. Because even my variation on my server, it's still an escape from reality. I can't build irl, I can't gather irl, I can't craft walls irl, I can't make pipe shotguns irl, and I can't hunt with a bow irl. It's all an escape from real life, just not some unreal fantasy of being mad max.

I used to throw people that cause excessive grief (harassment, overt displays of aggression etc) into a floating box above the ocean. Often this was a good enough "encouragement" for them to be more sportsmanlike and calm down.

I hear what you're saying and i do not disagree with what you want. I have never truly built the base i want to build because of the constant c4 and i can see the appeal of what you're saying. Maybe we should make this familiar for most players.. How i envisage your idea is the Minecraft alternative is 'Creative' with organized killing playstyle and i think of vanilla Rust as 'survival' Please note i say Minecraft only to better understand your idea and not because this game is anything like Minecraft. I saw someone mentioned how would you kill someone in your idea and they mentioned they had to tell the player they were going to kill them (Sarcasm of course). However i have an idea for your idea about combat. Maybe there is peace and wartime in wartime you can expect death, you can expect the unruly behavior the KOS however in peacetime.. PvE occurs you continue surviving, licking your wounds and gearing for the next wartime.. I don't know just throwing things out there to support you.