3 Dudes + 600 Stone + 300 Wood = Rule The Server.... - Rust

Let me start off with a couple of things...one, I love 99% of where rust is going and I appreciate all the work put into it. Secondly, I understand that the balance of the game is always in flux as it's early access. That being said, the fact that 3 guys with stone hatchets can team up and own an entire server is nothing short of insanity. You don't need to have any progression, supplies, or investment to achieve what is supposed to be the "end game" content that is raiding. I can spend days upon days building a base, and in a matter of a half an hour 3 guys who have farmed for less than 5 minutes can come wreck shop and take all of my stuff. I appreciate the need for there to be multiple people to pull of a raid, and I think that's a great idea. The flip side for me is that since there isn't any build up to raiding, it just breaks the progression for the entire game. Just my two cents.

You know you should build up in a rock so they can't get in there to hit your wall for 5 minutes?

[QUOTE=Zidkon;47036733]You know you should build up in a rock so they can't get in there to hit your wall for 5 minutes?[/QUOTE] I have started building my base in the middle of the water. They can try all they want, but they will just freeze

Yeah they need to bring back the C4 mechanic, make it resource consuming to raid, not just dependant on hacking time.

[QUOTE=Zidkon;47036733]You know you should build up in a rock so they can't get in there to hit your wall for 5 minutes?[/QUOTE] This is certainly a valid tactic, but it feels like a workaround to Rust's unbalanced raiding system. Fix the raiding system so stuff like this doesn't happen - that's my thought. [editline]30th January 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=Tripper3k;47038134]Yeah they need to bring back the C4 mechanic, make it resource consuming to raid, not just dependant on hacking time.[/QUOTE] No. With an hour or two of legacy grinding during off hours, I can build up enough C4 to thoroughly own the server. C4 is incredibly easy to craft on a vanilla server. Adding it to the main branch only makes raiding easier.

[QUOTE]. With an hour or two of legacy grinding during off hours, I can build up enough C4 to thoroughly own the server. C4 is incredibly easy to craft on a vanilla server. Adding it to the main branch only makes raiding easier.[/QUOTE] I hate hearing this moronic argument. It's completely false. To make any decent amount of c4 took a solid day of playing. On a heavily populated server a day of playing might only get you 6 charges. C4 absolutely needs to come back. Raiding by afk nude wall hatcheting is dull as shit, has zero risk involved and basically makes the game pointless to play. You know what's easier to make than c4? 3 stone hatchets.

All they need to do is making crafting C4 harder. How do they do that? Make the Explosives BP very rare! Can only be found in airdrops and has a 5% chance of even being in one! or! Explosives can be found in most air drops but cannot be learned!. They can only be found. Meaning that in order to make C4s you need to get access to these airdrops or get lucky and raid someone with Explosives. End of story, raiding just got way better.

[QUOTE=eFFeRR;47040046]All they need to do is making crafting C4 harder. How do they do that? Make the Explosives BP very rare! Can only be found in airdrops and has a 5% chance of even being in one! or! Explosives can be found in most air drops but cannot be learned!. They can only be found. Meaning that in order to make C4s you need to get access to these airdrops or get lucky and raid someone with Explosives. End of story, raiding just got way better.[/QUOTE] Nah. Scenario one - A few people have c4 and dominate, everyone else is screwd. Scenario two - Basically no raiding ever for 99% of players. That would be bad. I suppose if research kits made a comeback, maybe it could work. But if I were a c4 crafter, I would never leave any in boxes, just craft them before using them.

[QUOTE=withnail;47040110]Nah. Scenario one - A few people have c4 and dominate, everyone else is screwd. Scenario two - Basically no raiding ever for 99% of players. That would be bad. I suppose if research kits made a comeback, maybe it could work. But if I were a c4 crafter, I would never leave any in boxes, just craft them before using them.[/QUOTE] ↑ This. Servers get pretty unbalanced during the first week when a few groups get lucky and find weapon blueprints early. They can control many of the airdrops after this point and will just gain a further lead over others. Making them harder to craft rather than making the blueprints more rare is a better way to even things out.

[QUOTE=donkeypunch;47039898]I hate hearing this moronic argument. It's completely false. To make any decent amount of c4 took a solid day of playing. On a heavily populated server a day of playing might only get you 6 charges. C4 absolutely needs to come back. Raiding by afk nude wall hatcheting is dull as shit, has zero risk involved and basically makes the game pointless to play. You know what's easier to make than c4? 3 stone hatchets.[/QUOTE] Me and a partner of mine were always able to farm enough C4 to get into any base we wanted in only a couple hours. Less, if we happened to have a bigger group. By end game, we always had a huge stock. Given that you seem to lack some capacity, could it be the case that you were simply inefficient at farming?

[QUOTE=Prov3rbial;47040647]Me and a partner of mine were always able to farm enough C4 to get into any base we wanted in only a couple hours. Less, if we happened to have a bigger group. By end game, we always had a huge stock. Given that you seem to lack some capacity, could it be the case that you were simply inefficient at farming?[/QUOTE] Me and my friends also got big stockpiles of C4 in practically no-time in Legacy, it was poorly balanced as fuck.

I think the best way to go is to make c4 expensive enough to where you don't want to craft it unless absolutely necessary, and the stability mechanic should play heavily into this... Say c4 did enough damage not only to take out a wall, but the pillars, floor, and potentially the whole floor if its placed in the right spot. 4 C4 could completely demolish a building if needed, but to craft it would take an insane amount of resources. This would make raids require a lot of thought and planning, rather than mindless destruction. Edit: Also for more emergent gameplay situations, there should be a way to get into someones base without the use of c4, perhaps a craftable lockpick, or battering ram like SWAT teams use to bust down doors.

[QUOTE=Prov3rbial;47040647]Me and a partner of mine were always able to farm enough C4 to get into any base we wanted in only a couple hours. Less, if we happened to have a bigger group. By end game, we always had a huge stock. Given that you seem to lack some capacity, could it be the case that you were simply inefficient at farming?[/QUOTE] I played on us east coast 3 when the servers were full every day. You played on some dead server with noobs who built tiny bases. If you played on a server with people on it nodes were instantly grabbed up when they spawned and there was always someone to kill you when you left your house. Let's not balance the game for low pop servers and the no talent players who inhabit them.

[QUOTE=donkeypunch;47040868]I played on us east coast 3 when the servers were full every day. You played on some dead server with noobs who built tiny bases. If you played on a server with people on it nodes were instantly grabbed up when they spawned and there was always someone to kill you when you left your house. Let's not balance the game for low pop servers and the no talent players who inhabit them.[/QUOTE] Legacy's C4 balance was garbage just admit it dude. It was a game full of have's and have-not's where you could only truly succeed with as large a group as you could possibly form. Everyone needs to be able to make raiding tools, but it needs to have a deterrent so we don't get EVERYBODY with C4. Having a very steep resource cost fixes this more than making C4 blueprints rarer to find.

[QUOTE=donkeypunch;47039898]I hate hearing this moronic argument. It's completely false. To make any decent amount of c4 took a solid day of playing. [/QUOTE] Dude, if it took you 24 hours to get to C4 crafting, then you're not very good at the game. Simple as that. [QUOTE=donkeypunch;47039898]Raiding by afk nude wall hatcheting has zero risk involved[/QUOTE] Sorry to hear you haven't figured out how to kill a guy yet.

[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;47040905]Legacy's C4 balance was garbage just admit it dude. It was a game full of have's and have-not's where you could only truly succeed with as large a group as you could possibly form.[/QUOTE] This simply is untrue. I went solo on Legacy and wreaked havoc mostly because I had multiple bases scattered around the map. Even if you found one place, I had others to back up and was up and running with another base before you knew it. C4 however SHOULD be [B]seriously [/B]hard to obtain, it is the only balance measure imho.

[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47041702]Dude, if it took you 24 hours to get to C4 crafting, then you're not very good at the game. Simple as that. Sorry to hear you haven't figured out how to kill a guy yet.[/QUOTE] Idiotic argument. First, you have to find c4 and learn it. Then you have to control airdrops to find explosives. If you're acquiring both these items within the first hour, you're on a modded server or extremely low population. And then to claim you are able to farm enough within an hour to stockpile c4...again, modded or low pop. There are 3 scenarios. 1.) You're on a modded server and low pop server. 2.) Your partners already has c4 and explosives learned along with a ton of resources stockpiled and you just assume wrongly that you made everything with an hour. 3.) You're lying.

I can't understand why people keep coming back to c4 as the only explosive structure breaching method. Use those imaginations a bit.

[QUOTE=DeadRisen;47041933]I can't understand why people keep coming back to c4 as the only explosive structure breaching method. Use those imaginations a bit.[/QUOTE] Well, there WERE grenades. Though they were basically worthless for demolition as it took like 15+ to take down a wooden wall. And that was if you could somehow keep them from rolling away before they exploded.

[QUOTE=SteakStyles;47041949]Well, there WERE grenades.[/QUOTE] I mean volitile kegs of black powder, thermite, etc. Everybody seems to be so stuck on old rust that all they can think of are its old mechanics when it comes to structure breaking.

I always went with get enough C4 to blow into one place, they usually had enough supplies to replace the C4 I used plus make a lot more, move on to next place... by the time you're done you can makes lots and lots of C4 and never need to gather resources again. As a rule my loot rooms always had less resources required than it took C4 to get to them.

[QUOTE=donkeypunch;47040868]I played on us east coast 3 when the servers were full every day. You played on some dead server with noobs who built tiny bases. If you played on a server with people on it nodes were instantly grabbed up when they spawned and there was always someone to kill you when you left your house. Let's not balance the game for low pop servers and the no talent players who inhabit them.[/QUOTE] Nope. My group and I have played on a wide variety of servers, both high and low pop. I've never had trouble finding less harvested areas to grind materials if my favored spots are taken. Some light banditry is also a good source of resources, especially on crowded servers. Again, have you considered that you are just really, really bad? I mean, you just admitted that you're killed every time you leave your house. So... u mad, bro?

[QUOTE=A. James;47041930]Idiotic argument. First, you have to find c4 and learn it. Then you have to control airdrops to find explosives.[/QUOTE] Sorry about your skills, I guess. If it takes you 24 hours to get C4, maybe Rust isn't the game for you.

the only thing what needs the game are a balance on the required materials to craft anything. For example: add 3 different kind of explosives. Melee/other ways: To destroy Tier 1 and Tier 2 Wood buildings. Rock buildings ban be damaged as well but just by the 30% of the base damage. Ex 1 (powder?) - To destroy rock buildings (Deals 100% of base damage to rock buildings). Only deals 30% of base damage to corrugated buildings, only deals 5% damage to top metal buildings. Ex 2 (TNT?) - To destroy Corrugated metal buildings (Deals 100% of base damage to corrugated metal buildings). only deals 25% damage to top metal buildings. Ex 3 (C4?) - To destroy Top metal buildings (Deals 100% of base damage to corrugated metal buildings). And later just balance... -Blueprints drops, for example: EX1 40% drop. - EX2 15% drop. - EX3 3% drop. -Resources required to be built: The most important factor here... a simple example on how do I think it should be working: Lets Imagine that each [I]Top metal wall[/I] takes you about 30 mins of gathering resources arround the map (depending the number of resources and rarity) plus about 5 minutes for crafting it... Then If just one [I]C4[/I] (ex3) can blow one[I]Top metal wall[/I], to be able to get the required resources you should need to waste 3 times more time on it than it is to create that wall... that should be for example 90 minutes of gathering (approx) and 15 minutes of crafting to be able to make 1 C4. Following this way I think this would be easy to balance the building/explosives tiers. **Note than the percentages I use and the multiply factor (x3) that I use are just examples to show my thoughts.

Or we could stop this "the only way to break into a wooden shack should be to use literal C4" nonsense and agree that the raiding mechanic is broken as it stands. If I'm going to break into a shack in the wood, I don't care what the walls are made of because I'm not going through them. I'm going to pry the door, pick the lock, card the lock, brute force the code, pop a window, wait for someone to show up and mug them for the key / code, or a dozen other ways. "Going through a wall" isn't exactly a common method of home burglary for a reason.

[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47042993]Or we could stop this "the only way to break into a wooden shack should be to use literal C4" nonsense and agree that the raiding mechanic is broken as it stands. If I'm going to break into a shack in the wood, I don't care what the walls are made of because I'm not going through them. I'm going to pry the door, pick the lock, card the lock, brute force the code, pop a window, wait for someone to show up and mug them for the key / code, or a dozen other ways. "Going through a wall" isn't exactly a common method of home burglary for a reason.[/QUOTE] ^This. Battering ram. Lock pick. Unique sounds for each keypad number (like a land-line phone) rope-ladders/ropes/grappling hooks (for bases on rocks/stair delete trick). Fire mechanic vs wood. Battering ram vs stone. Blowtorch vs steel. IDK why everyone so hellbent on C4. The chemical composition is very difficult to manufacture. Seeing as Garry nailed gunpowder, TNT/dynamite seems like a much more realistic item. Or to touch on BIOCLONEs idea of the 3 tiers of explosives.

At the end of the day I don't give half a shit what we use to raid :) I just want the effort needed to be equiv to the reward at the end. There should be a level of equality when it comes to the effort to raid and the effort to build. Raiding is more personal, you're taking away what others have. If it takes me 5 hours in game to build and stock my base, than whatever the component you need to come raid it should take you about the same amount of time. The problem I have with the current setup is that 40 hours of work can be taken away with 30 minutes of work....that shit is broken. Simple as that.

Agreed, raiding needs to be made much more difficult, not something that people can start doing 5 minutes after joining a server.

[QUOTE=lordrushx1;47041883]This simply is untrue. I went solo on Legacy and wreaked havoc mostly because I had multiple bases scattered around the map. Even if you found one place, I had others to back up and was up and running with another base before you knew it. C4 however SHOULD be [B]seriously [/B]hard to obtain, it is the only balance measure imho.[/QUOTE] All you proved with this anecdote is that the only way to live in legacy as a solo player, is to play super defensively in a nomadic playstyle. That's not "wreaking havoc," that's just damage control. I've done it too man, that doesn't make legacy raiding any more balanced.

[QUOTE=Zidkon;47036733]You know you should build up in a rock so they can't get in there to hit your wall for 5 minutes?[/QUOTE] That will not work anymore soon as they are planning to take out the cupboards. They want to make it where people can stair glitch again etc by not having a building blocked.