Scrap the idea of a Tool Cupboard, the idea of an invisible area where someone can't build is just nonsense. (Yes i know it's a place holder)
Rust should be evened out with solid defense and solid offense. Such as spikes walls and other contraptions to protect your base, and for offense firepower, guns, rockets and explosives.
In the real world you cant just go and try destroying a government building because they would capture your ass before you touched the wall because they have a solid defense. But if you had the correct tools and weapons to destroy a government building their defense is no match for you.
The point i'm trying to get at here is there is no need for an invisible barrier around your base to protect it because if you have build a solid defense with whatever contraptions FacePunch creates you can stop anyone that has weaker firepower, flip it around and if your firepower is stronger than their defense then you win.
Yes this is what Rust is already doing, but if i want to block your front door with spikes i can but to counter that you should have a base built as to where i couldn't
To sum all this rambling up remove Tool Cupboards, if you don't want to be raided build a solid defense to protect you self and if you wanna raid build up stronger firepower. Thank you for reading let me know what you think
Tool cupboards were never put in to protect against raiding.... it's sole purpose is to stop the asshats from entombing you in your own base. The TC will stay in the game until someone can think of a better way for protecting against griefing, and I haven't read a single good replacement suggestion yet.
Toolcupboard is still a great feature in my opinion and should never be removed. If it were removed, think of all the griefers, most raiding tools such and rockets and c4 would most likely be useless.
It's not that the devs don't know how to fix the issues the cupboard is preventing, it's that coding in the edge cases to prevent exploits like placing walls an inch from the door takes a bunch of time, and until the building system is finalized, all that work could be thrown out the window when the underlying system gets changed. Like performance optimizations, it's something that will come when things are more nailed down, and that's not here yet.
The tool cupboard is a bandage, and the people who've absorbed it into their defensive meta are going to be very unhappy when it gets removed (unless garry changes his mind and keeps it in).
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47847409]It's not that the devs don't know how to fix the issues the cupboard is preventing, it's that coding in the edge cases to prevent exploits like placing walls an inch from the door takes a bunch of time, and until the building system is finalized, all that work could be thrown out the window when the underlying system gets changed. Like performance optimizations, it's something that will come when things are more nailed down, and that's not here yet.
The tool cupboard is a bandage, and the people who've absorbed it into their defensive meta are going to be very unhappy when it gets removed (unless garry changes his mind and keeps it in).[/QUOTE]
But how could you possibly prevent the griefer from entombing you with code? Even if you make it so they can't wall off your doorway, they can still airlock you in with their own door. The only way to prevent entombing is with building ownership.
You code it in so walls or other doors can't be built within a certain distance of doors so that doors can open freely? It's not hard, it's just checks and restrictions that will have to get thrown out if they change the building system, so until they lock down the building system, it's a waste of time to pencil all of those checks in. The tool cupboard is a quick and dirty workaround until then.
If you're complaining that your house can be built completely around by someone else so that you're actually walled in on all sides, you need to reconsider your approach to base design.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47848146]You code it in so walls or other doors can't be built within a certain distance of doors so that doors can open freely? It's not hard, it's just checks and restrictions that will have to get thrown out if they change the building system, so until they lock down the building system, it's a waste of time to pencil all of those checks in. The tool cupboard is a quick and dirty workaround until then.
If you're complaining that your house can be built completely around by someone else so that you're actually walled in on all sides, you need to reconsider your approach to base design.[/QUOTE]
The very moment you can build around others' bases the game will kill loners totally. If you're a clan you will have zero issues building a dome around most buildings.
Clans already have a huge advantage in raiding, which is understandable. But building prison domes around smaller groups just seems totally fucked up to me.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47848146]You code it in so walls or other doors can't be built within a certain distance of doors so that doors can open freely? It's not hard, it's just checks and restrictions that will have to get thrown out if they change the building system, so until they lock down the building system, it's a waste of time to pencil all of those checks in. The tool cupboard is a quick and dirty workaround until then.
If you're complaining that your house can be built completely around by someone else so that you're actually walled in on all sides, you need to reconsider your approach to base design.[/QUOTE]
I'm not complaining about anything, I just don't think that's a solution. If the person can't wall you in using a 1x1 then they'll use a 2x1, or longer. So it would go back to legacy style buildings with dozens of doors leading out of your base, which in turn will make it unreasonably expensive just to get a starter building down. The TC still seems like the most elegant fix to me, unless Garry can code building ownership directly into the blocks you're placing, but then again that only gets rid of the need for the TC, and also restrict the player's ability to take over a base.
I think one way to stop grievers and remove cupboard is making it so only the owner can build on their placed foundations (&connected ones). Ie once you put down a foundation that 1x1 is urs unless destroyed. Would be a way to implement cities is proximity to rad towns etc. Otherwise the grieving would ruin it.
Edit: Zipppy just posted nearly same time lol.
[QUOTE=itisjuly;47848182]The very moment you can build around others' bases the game will kill loners totally. If you're a clan you will have zero issues building a dome around most buildings.
Clans already have a huge advantage in raiding, which is understandable. But building prison domes around smaller groups just seems totally fucked up to me.[/QUOTE]
I don't think stability's going to allow people to get to that point, and there'll be some sort of balancing measure put in place otherwise. [I]Nothing[/I] is balanced right now; that doesn't mean it'll remain that way forever. The game's final balance should make it very difficult, but not impossible, to fully enclose someone else's house unless they built a 1x1 shack or have a survival lean-to under a bush or something (as seen in concept art). It should be impractical and demand a fuckton of resources, which should keep it from being justified most of the time.
And honestly, if someone goes to the trouble of building a Chernobyl-reactor-sarcophagus style enclosure to wall you in, you might as well go to another server because either an admin hates you, or a group [B]really[/B] hate you and devoted a considerable amount of resources to building an enclosing superstructure that specifically traps you in the center.
But we're not balanced yet.
[QUOTE=Zipper Bear;47848327]The TC still seems like the most elegant fix to me, [B]unless Garry can code building ownership directly into the blocks you're placing[/B], but then again that only gets rid of the need for the TC, and also restrict the player's ability to take over a base.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=vynel;47848344]I think one way to stop grievers and remove cupboard is making it so only the owner can build on their placed foundations (&connected ones). Ie once you put down a foundation that 1x1 is urs unless destroyed. Would be a way to implement cities is proximity to rad towns etc. Otherwise the grieving would ruin it.[/QUOTE]
Objects specifically don't have any concept of ownership in Rust, except for the tool cupboard; that's what is different from legacy and why the cupboard exists. This is a deliberate design decision garry made. Foundations don't know you placed them. Doors don't know they belong to you; they belong to you because you have the key or the keycode and others don't.
You have to think about things differently in Rust; garry is doing some different things.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47848363]I don't think stability's going to allow people to get to that point, and there'll be some sort of balancing measure put in place otherwise. [I]Nothing[/I] is balanced right now; that doesn't mean it'll remain that way forever. The game's final balance should make it very difficult, but not impossible, to fully enclose someone else's house unless they built a 1x1 shack or have a survival lean-to under a bush or something (as seen in concept art). It should be impractical and demand a fuckton of resources, which should keep it from being justified most of the time.
And honestly, if someone goes to the trouble of building a Chernobyl-reactor-sarcophagus style enclosure to wall you in, you might as well go to another server because either an admin hates you, or a group [B]really[/B] hate you and devoted a considerable amount of resources to building an enclosing superstructure that specifically traps you in the center.
But we're not balanced yet.[/QUOTE]
Sphere check doors, so when people want to place an object in front of them, it will register as a large cylinder and not just a wall..
Or re-add center-pillars, center side pillars as well and have it like in legacy.
The concept of not being able to build around someone's base...
Let's say there is a hostile and possible crazy guy with a AK living in a small fortress, and you want to go break in and steal his stuff.
The idea that you might lug a couple of tons of building materials up to his doorstep to build a series of platforms and ramps up to the roof where entry might be easiest, all the while probably being shot at because this guy is never "offline" and will wake up if you start moving heavy materials nearby...
Not happening. Not in the least realistic.
What you might do is bring a ladder or grappling line, something light that you can bring in one go, use that to get up on the roof quickly and carry out the raid. And hey, we have ladders now. Not a huge fan of them being post-it notes you can stick to every surface, but they could be implemented in a realistic fashion (IE come in different lengths, you lean them against the walls and need something solid to put the base on).
So stop moaning about the cupboards, it's a great gameplay mechanic.
If cupboard is to be removed, building and upgrading should not be instant and should take time like any other crafting.
the second you remove the TC is the second I will go around and place my own door, or wall in front of your door like I did in legacy. It's the easiest method to stop people from building in your area in legacy.
assholes are a part of the game.
to my mind the tool cupboard is pointless in the long run; players who do things like blockade doors should simply be kick-banned on servers that it is not acceptable on, rather than the devs keeping artificial measures into a game that is supposedly all about emergent, player driven gameplay.
[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47848363]
You have to think about things differently in Rust; garry is doing some different things.[/QUOTE]
and proving that anarchy is a horrible way to live for the masses, i.e proving those with the resources oppress. Anarchy is only fun for the oppressors.
On topic, I do not think being able to build around another persons base is a such a critical game play element that it is needed, destroying, invading, yes. What [U]value[/U] does it bring to the [I]game[/I]? I think ladders fundamentally solve this issue in a game design perspective based on what I think he wants to accomplish. Once you are raided you pretty much been evicted anyways.
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