Why is facepunch banning people who are reporting hackers and known cheaters? - Rust

I there any reason that Facepunch is banning people that are reporting hackers? Doesn't that make the game better or did I miss something. I and several other people have been banned simply for reporting people cheating in game. Can I at least get an explanation?

where did someone get banned just for reporting a hacker? we can't really discuss much here if you don't give any links to back your claims lol.

Moderators ban people who make useless and crap threads. Reporting cheaters when the game automatically handles it with the anti-cheat is useless. Banning every cheater that's been reported on these forums manually would be too much of a time-consuming hassle. Reporting every cheater in the game would flood the Rust section with those threads. If it's an unofficial server, get the server admin to do something about it instead.

People should not report hackers and cheaters because the anticheat systems will do the work for us. If we openly allow people to be banned for hacking, due to reports, the number of true false claims would be insane. People would go on insane witch hunts and try and look at every single detail and nitpick just to find alleged hackers, and post information that should not be posted. Imagine being accused of hacking and having your steam information posted, even though the accusations are absolutely absurd. That has happened before here. You can't prove a negative, therefore you can't prove you didn't hack.

Some people believe how cheaters are handled is the same as it is in some MMORPGS: you just post a name and they supposedly are monitored by the GM/Admin team. They also tend to believe that reporting will get the offender banned faster despite VAC/EAC being automatic.

[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1450542[/url] Yes I agree there is no proof but you guys didn't even look into it and you just banned someone for no reason. I also personally watched that person hack for 2 hours on Washington. How are you suppose to get proof exactly? you cant screenshot someone standing still and someone flying around wont say the name. take a look at the Washington chat log for the last 3 hours and look at all the people complaining(assuming that is even possible).

I just got killed by him. Speedhacking then claiming, "owned kid owned ooo owned" in 12 y/o voice.

[QUOTE=thehydro1;47111414][url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1450542[/url] Yes I agree there is no proof but you guys didn't even look into it and you just banned someone for no reason. I also personally watched that person hack for 2 hours on Washington. How are you suppose to get proof exactly? you cant screenshot someone standing still and someone flying around wont say the name. take a look at the Washington chat log for the last 3 hours and look at all the people complaining(assuming that is even possible).[/QUOTE] we don't need threads that just say "THIS GUYS A HACKER BECAUSE I SAY SO". that's really dumb and defeats the entire point of the anticheats the game has. "How are you suppose to get proof" exactly, you don't. you just leave it to the automated anticheats to sort out once new patches get applied to them. Regardless, that account wasn't banned for reporting hackers, but for making shit threads. are you goldhydro?

[QUOTE=thehydro1;47111414][url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1450542[/url] Yes I agree there is no proof but you guys didn't even look into it and you just banned someone for no reason. I also personally watched that person hack for 2 hours on Washington. How are you suppose to get proof exactly? you cant screenshot someone standing still and someone flying around wont say the name. take a look at the Washington chat log for the last 3 hours and look at all the people complaining(assuming that is even possible).[/QUOTE] That's because you can't actually prove they were hacking just be screenshotting them and video 'evidence' doesn't really do much either. Both can easily be faked. You can frame people with video editing or alt accounts. The guy who posted his thread literally didn't even try. All he did was SAY he hacked. That's it. He isn't even attempting to prove it. Even with video evidence it isn't enough because there are so many cases that you have to deal with it on a case by case basis which means you have to prove that the video wasn't faked as well. This is INSANELY tedious and would take a huge amount of time to sift through every single report, manually, and manually deal with it. Also, Cheatpunch gets screen shot evidence... by taking a screen shot of their screen. If it sees a hack it bans them. No manual labor or false reports there. Just clean banning. Did you happen to get banned on an alt or something over this? [editline]10th February 2015[/editline] anyone can say [url]http://steamcommunity.com/id/itstimetogoshipping[/url] guys I found a hacker please vac ban him he was aimbotting and speed hacking and then post a video of their friend on an alt with a copy of their name "Hacking", but post their enemies profile. It's so easy to fake it. Any idiot could figure it out.

No I'm not goldhydro and i was not banned just curious why a friend was banned from the forums for that. We were griefd for over 2 hours by 2 different hackers and it doesn't seem right that the entire server had to go through that.Look we play every week and getting on sitting in my house for 2 hours waiting for a hacker to get off is not my idea of a good time.But ty I have a better insight on how things work now

Automated systems aren't instant, but reports are even slower

you're a fucking snitch J!NX

[QUOTE=Limed00d;47111468]you're a fucking snitch J!NX[/QUOTE] We FoUnD yOu OuT HaCkEr NoW wHaT yOu GoNnA dO??????

At least postal didn't get accused of killing someone's cats this time. [sp]FP inside joke, no cats were harmed[/sp]

Does the anti-cheat work well in Rust? Serious question, I've barely played the new Rust. Obviously legacy is hack infested, but that's what happens on games that aren't supported anymore.

[QUOTE=Limed00d;47111388] Reporting cheaters when the game automatically handles it with the anti-cheat is useless. [/QUOTE] >the game automatically handles it with the anti-cheat HAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA lol HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH no the games doesnt handle any cheater. Rust is a hacker's fest. all the official server are full of no-clipper, hackers, and godmode. the only thing you have against cheater are admin who need to ban someone manually, or have DIY oxide mode to do it for them. [highlight](User was banned for this post ("This isn't 4chan/Read the dev blog" - BANNED USER))[/highlight]

[QUOTE=louisclub;47118171]no the games doesnt handle any cheater. Rust is a hacker's fest. all the official server are full of no-clipper, hackers, and godmode. the only thing you have against cheater are admin who need to ban someone manually, or have DIY oxide mode to do it for them.[/QUOTE] Explain this: [QUOTE=eac knubbe;47104993]76561198205157916 is permanently banned for using pay2cheat -hack.[/QUOTE] That whole thread's a goldmine of a cheater attempting obvious lies at least five times. And then he went and reported our images to imgur and got them removed, but it's too late. :v:

[QUOTE=louisclub;47118171]he games doesnt handle any cheater. Rust is a hacker's fest. all the official server are full of no-clipper, hackers, and godmode. the only thing you have against cheater are admin who need to ban someone manually, or have DIY oxide mode to do it for them.[/QUOTE] legacy is abandoned, and can't be compared to experimental in terms of anticheat. it's not been updated in months; of course the anticheat protection is practically worthless there. eac is actively banning cheaters in experimental, and so is vac.

The ugly part about this all, is it seems like alot of the Devs are not actually playing on the official servers. Sure, anyone can say "ohhhh official servers are for noobs", but in reality, they should be the absoulute best servers (in terms of reliability, performance, and anti-cheat). Anti-cheat should not be left up to the end-user (host) of the game with plugins and such (namely Oxide). This is just 3rd party software that anyone can attain and pick apart and modify as they see fit. Before you even mention anything about development of the game, Alpha stage, or "its coming", I must remind you that there have been over 1 MILLION COPIES of this game sold (@ $16-22), and there are usually only about 2-4000 people online at any given time. That is more copies sold than some games see in full release. My point being here is the alleged budget of this game, and what Facepunch has to work with considering resources vs maintenance on only about 20 (including Dev branch) Official Servers. You cannot build and code a game, and have it rampant full of cheaters during development, and then expect to band-aid everything after, and they all go away. Cheats will ruin this game, it is rampant across official servers. I for one, will not play a game where the developers and the community tell me to go play on a random privately owned server, especially seeing as some of the admins just grief people, 0 official support, and if you ever do have a problem on what appears to be a better-maintained-and-operated-than-official server, people will just tell you its a Private server, try an official server. Well played, well played. ****** Where my pain comes from: After having given up on Rust for the last couple patches/weeks due to crashes to desktop and poor performance (yea yea it will come), and put a couple hours in last night. So I follow about 4-5 buddies on to Rustafied.com (main, not dev) We are playing for about 20 minutes, getting me all geared up (friends already had a large complex, they helped me huge). 4-5 of us then go outside, and immediately see some people. We kill a couple, and then the 3rd guy appears. I chase him for a couple minutes, he somehow turns around and one-shots me in the head with a bow (Just wearing burlap, no armor, so I figured this is legitimate). I respawn and quickly run to where I died. I then start chasing the guy. Now this is where it gets disappointing. 3 of us tried chasing him. He would continually sprint, making the gap farther between us constantly. He was simply sprinting faster than us. After about 15 seconds, he would have enough time to full stop, turn around, take a shot with his bow, turn around again and keep running. It was simple speed hacks. There were 4 of us chasing him. Probably 6 of us online and in teamspeak together. That was my only Rust experience in the last few weeks. 2-3 of us disconnected and stopped playing (or at least took a break) when this happened because of sheer disappointment. The worst part is, at first when he was leaving us behind just sprinting, we werent sure if it was a desync issue, lag, poor server performance, a glitch, actual cheats, because of what clothing/armor he was wearing, etc. ****** My point is, new people could be getting hacked on some servers, realizing it or not, they are going to ragequit 98% of the time. This game is so open to scripts right now it is seriously not funny. My recommendation to the Dev team is to start hiring some good cheaters to fight back. Learn their secrets, dont be afraid to ask others for help :) There is a great game being made here, it would be foolish to jeopordize the games development because a handful of people have followed this games construction since the beginning, and know exactly how to continually hack it. Side note with EAC: You cannot simply put the entire onus on them. Im not sure exactly how many bans/cheats they have issued/blocked, but I am sure they are working hard. My point is, the problems stem from the game itself. You cant take a crashed Ford Fiesta in to a body shop and expect a Bentley Continental after. The best you can really expect is a normal-looking Ford Fiesta, with a permanent accident history and a whole lot of hidden work.

No one needs to hire hackers to figure out their secrets. How game hacks work are not a secret in the slightest. It is an arms race, the best any anti-cheat can do is keep pace. No game is more or less susceptible to hacks than another. There will always be a way to trick the system.

[QUOTE=CBaller420;47121410] Anti-cheat should not be left up to the end-user (host) of the game with plugins and such (namely Oxide). This is just 3rd party software that anyone can attain and pick apart and modify as they see fit. ... You cannot build and code a game, and have it rampant full of cheaters during development, and then expect to band-aid everything after, and they all go away. Cheats will ruin this game, it is rampant across official servers. ... [/QUOTE] Good post. The game is ruined at this point because of hackers. Not that this will not change, but right now there is little point to play if a base will get hacked once you go offline, or if the servers are full of hackers. FP should make it their #1 priority in the short-term to reduce the number of hackers and try to get to a point where is a base is safe from hackers for 24 hours.

they keep making [B]everything[/B] their #1 priority because of the noise we consumers make. we should just trust that it will get sorted as they go instead of trying to micromanage them.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47125069]they keep making [B]everything[/B] their #1 priority because of the noise we consumers make. we should just trust that it will get sorted as they go instead of trying to micromanage them.[/QUOTE] THIS

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47125069]they keep making [B]everything[/B] their #1 priority because of the noise we consumers make. we should just trust that it will get sorted as they go instead of trying to micromanage them.[/QUOTE] Your right, I better STFU and keep my feedback to myself. You know where we would be if everyone did that? Not playing this game (or at least wanting to)

[QUOTE=cinderstar;47123788]FP should make it their #1 priority in the short-term to reduce the number of hackers and try to get to a point where is a base is safe from hackers for 24 hours.[/QUOTE] FP hired EAC to avoid doing this very thing. There is no reason to halt production to focus on anti-cheats. EAC is already handling it.

How is it even in question as to why reporting hackers is stupid [editline]12th February 2015[/editline] [QUOTE=cinderstar;47123788]Good post. The game is ruined at this point because of hackers. Not that this will not change, but right now there is little point to play if a base will get hacked once you go offline, or if the servers are full of hackers. FP should make it their #1 priority in the short-term to reduce the number of hackers and try to get to a point where is a base is safe from hackers for 24 hours.[/QUOTE] instead of making a fucking game they should drop everything and 'fix' this Everything is opened up the way it is which allows cheaters to more easily cheat, but makes bug reporting and managing far, far easier, which is, and should be the #1 priority.

[QUOTE=CBaller420;47128140]Your right, I better STFU and keep my feedback to myself.[/QUOTE] not what i'm saying. feedback is good, telling them what tasks to prioritise/how to run their business is not. it's in their best interests to fix everything, so why do we feel the need to keep telling them what to do "now"? it will cause more issues/mistakes/loopholes for them to drop what they are doing to keep up with us, than to simply work to their own schedule.

[QUOTE=mrknifey;47130603]not what i'm saying. feedback is good, telling them what tasks to prioritise/how to run their business is not. it's in their best interests to fix everything, so why do we feel the need to keep telling them what to do "now"? it will cause more issues/mistakes/loopholes for them to drop what they are doing to keep up with us, than to simply work to their own schedule.[/QUOTE] Thats fair. I just dont want them to realize way too far down the road that they have way too much faith for the amount of stuff that is stored on the client side. Checksums or not, if people are currently just modifying their client-side files to delete walls/doors.... this game has issues. #UnityProblems

They're well-aware of the pitfalls of leaving the client authoritative, but putting the validation server-side will introduce a new vector for bugs and will slow down iterative development, as well as create performance drains on the server. Neither is desirable right now. The game is far from finished, and letting the client be trusted is an efficiency issue at the moment. It's not that they don't know what they're doing, it's that it's inefficient to do it right now.

Yes, authoritative server would create too much of a strain for a graphically intensive shooter with preexisting FPS issues. But I know when the game was being recoded, particularly given the cheat-heavy state of Legacy, I was hoping for more effective server physics or sanity checks against the data being passed up from the client to be included at the ground level of Experimental... I'm sure others did too. Third party anti-cheat is reactionary whack-a-mole. When you think about it logically, it has to work eventually. You ban a shit ton of people, some of them give you another $20 and get banned again, a few of them do it a third time... each round the number of cheaters dwindles until everyone realizes they're just throwing money away. But it doesn't [B]feel[/B] like that's happening. So either there's a lot of really stupid children ringing up debt on mommy's Visa card, or maybe something in this process is not going to plan.