No lifers ruin this game? - Rust

It's very frustrating to come onto a server that has newly been wiped play for around two hours and then come back the next day and still see the same people on that were on last night. They are already fully geared with full Kevlar all the weapons and have a nice base made since they went around killing players that just started and were trying to gather materials. They dominate all airdrops dropped by the admins making it nearly impossible for any newer players to gather C4 or explosives. This game needs some serious balance to it. Just because a group of 5+ people have literally no life but play video games get to win the game makes no sense. There needs to be SOMETHING that will make the playing field more even. Yes, I know that when you play the video for a longer time you get better at it, which is what these "no lifers" have an advantage of already, but even in COD (bare with me here) you can be a prestige master and still you only have all the guns unlocked right? You have a slight advantage over other players from all the time you have put in the game and possibly the 5 extra classes you have picked up, but you do not just wreck everyone you see. Although its not like that in Rust, where I can have full cloth and a P250 verses a group of guys in full Kevlar with M4's within a 12 hour period after a server wipe, just because they had stayed on the server for aprox. a day. (I added one of them on steam and had logged 20 out of 24 hours that day). I have no suggestion for how some system could be added to the game where "no lifers" get a HUGE advantage, but it ruins the game. People do not have time to put in tons of hours just to enjoy a video game, or a portion of the video game. I don't want to hear any shit about "Well leave then" or "You shouldn't be playing on a PvP server there are PvE servers for noobs like you" because saying that stuff would be like "Minecraft must be to hard for you while playing multiplayer, go play singleplayer" Even though playing single player in Minecraft gets extremely boring withing a short period of time. Anyways would love to hear any suggestions or ideas. Thank you.

Honestly they aren't going to take the game away from the people who have more time to play than you. From a business standpoint that would be stupid. My advice to you would be to join a smaller server. Especially if you are just able to be a casual player.

The problem with joining a smaller server is that then you don't get as much action right? And Rust servers are very unpredictable in their attendance levels, one moment they will have 20 player and then 80 or vise versa. Anyways thanks for the input, that's what my guys are doing, but are casual players like myself stuck to low population servers forever?

And exactly how would you stop this? You can also kill a kevlar guy and you got a full set.. Which makes them having wasted an hour or so.. I don't see the problem, and can't find any way to prevent this.

This is just any game, can't do anything about it other than outplay them.

So when someone invests more time in the game than another one, he shouldn't have more than the other guy? Then how about we remove farming and looting completely and just give each player the same amount of stuff every hour, even when they're not on? Also sleepers should be removed because the people who have "no life" can kill the players when they're not online which is an advantage. We can also remove raiding and griefing and whatnot by equally letting doors and walls explode server-sided. Experience is also a problem because "no lifers" often have better aim if they played for over 300 hours. So let's remove player interaction and let the server fight for us with fair bots, meaning every bot dies the same amount of time. "No lifers" also often have better hardware so we should lower the graphics so that the game runs fluid on max settings with a 80386. Feedback to my suggestions is much appreciated. Who doesn't hate these people who lose themselves in gaming? They shouldn't exist. What are they thinking? Let's complain about them in a gaming forum!

This is when you team with these people. My group of 5/6 has a couple people that are able to play a lot and the rest of us are like you.

Server mods? Kick inactivity after like 5-10 minutes. Award server currency for active play on the game. Use currency to purchase equipment. Then it could be like your CoD example where everyone can eventually become on the same level equipment wise.

Because CoD is a great example for a good game...

Sounds like someone needs to go to jelly school.

The balance issue, to me, is the general lack of a ceiling. MMO's, yeah, there's going to be no-lifers that reach the max level cap, get the best gear, whatever. That's all a cap. You can get there too, and they can't get any further ahead aside from getting better with their character. CoD, more action-oriented games have the same general deal. There's a cap to what they can get to. Rust...doesn't really have any of that. I mean, they can have full kev, M4s, and large medits and that's the cap, combat-wise (save for maybe some premade Wood Barricades to give cover). That can be gruesome to deal with when you're still in cloth/bow trying to gather resources. Best you can really do is run off and farm somewhere else. And again when that spot is being patrolled by another player of the same caliber. But, they stockpile. Because there's nothing else to do once you obtain the best equipment and tools other than to get more of it, and use them on other players. Coupled with their lead on less active players, it's natural for them to be more bold and aggressive. But there's no way for a casual player to ever catch up to a no-lifer player. The casual will get ganked, raided, and bullied away from progress, while the no lifer has already made the progress he needed to, and is almost always around to defend against raids. Or has multiple bases and doesn't care if he loses one of them from time to time. So from this, there's two possible ways to help. The first is introducing ceilings to things, something that weight limits and durability are trying to address (though the implementation has been derp, since it still just hurts the people starting out.) The second is introducing more things to just [I]do[/I] in the game that allows for more invested players to have other things to do than craft C4 and shoot nakeds. But the general solution right now is simply finding a server without as high of a population. You will most likely not see much action, but that's the tradeoff. Find a server that's < 50 pop, build in a discreet place, and if you want to try to find action, go exploring.

easy fix .make base invulnerable after one hour from log off. But allow for natural decay, and, say, after a week of no activity, remove the "shields"

I agree with the OP to some extent. There needs to be a better balance. That balance should come in the form of removing high powered weapons and increasing the ability to defend, esp offline. Raiding is just WAY to easy at the moment.

So if someone likes the game and plays it allot that means they have no life?. Just because they got on the server before you doesn't make them have no life. Plus its not hard to set up just be smart about it and don't fight without guns and good aim. Also why put CoD as a example. Some guns are op and some are crap. You just grab the OP gun and your as good as everyone else.

[QUOTE=Danifer;44161006]So if someone likes the game and plays in allot that means they have no life?. Just because they got on the server before you doesn't make them have no life. Plus its not hard to set up just be smart about it and don't fight without guns and good aim.[/QUOTE] You're right to an extent, but the ones that put in double the time a casual does (around 5-6 hours instead of 2-3) aren't the problem. They'll get ahead, sure, but not at the same rate as the ones that play it for 15+ hours a day. That with a highly active server, it's a lot harder to get set up. [QUOTE=Danifer;44161006]Also why put CoD as a example. Some guns are op and some are crap. You just grab the OP gun and your as good as everyone else.[/QUOTE] I think the point was that eventually, everyone's on an equal playing field as far as game mechanics are concerned. From there it'd just be skill and experience. Two entirely different genres of games, however, so it was not a good example.

People want everything to come so easy. I'm 36 and am married with a good job, I'm good, but I'm not some pro gamer. Me and two equally skilled friends have gotten full kev and M4s by killing a guy with 3 v 1, two bows and one pick axe, within about 15 minutes of being on the server. We basically hit the end game in 15 minutes. It's not that hard to move up in the Rust world. I don't get the comparisons to things like WoW, you have to spend days, weeks, months to get geared in those types of games. Rust, with your own learned skills, you can do it in minutes.

One thing that the devs could take into consideration is creating caps to the amount of weapons on any given server and to not allow the crafting of higher end weaponry. What caveman, and that is essentially what you are when you start the game, could ever craft a fully auto machine gun? I think that the higher tier weaponry should only be available from crates and airdrops. Really it seems to me that the ability to spam weapons and stockpile them is what gives an unfair advantage to those who can play more than a couple of hours a day. I would say the same about armor. Kevlar should only be a found item, not craftable. Leather and cloth should be the only armors that can be crafted as this would make sense in the real world. I mean, if I could craft some kevlar for myself in the real world, I would. I also think that wood planks should not be craftable without having to make or find the appropriate tools.

[QUOTE=TexRob;44161170]Rust, with your own learned skills, you can do it in minutes.[/QUOTE] Haha, and a couple of friends, extraordinary amount of luck, and somebody else's time sunk into it. That's mostly snark, but I feel like that story's only really emphasized luck over all else. It's not hard to move up, technically speaking, just because of you're able to take from others. Last night I fresh spawned, and killed a sleeper that had full kev and other gear. Because of luck. Which, I don't feel the game's progression should be primarily driven by that. [QUOTE=TexRob;44161170]I don't get the comparisons to things like WoW, you have to spend days, weeks, months to get geared in those types of games.[/QUOTE] Because no matter how much time you've sunk into it, you can only get so powerful. Not to mention the tiers of power still rests in the easiest portion: Leveling. You don't get that much stronger from end-game gear than you did when you hit max level (or at least, that's how I remembered it back in Vanilla...). But while the actual measurement of time isn't particularly necessary, Rust is in alpha. Who's to say changes won't come to make the higher ended gear take months to make when the game's on stable release?

[QUOTE=AK42;44161318]One thing that the devs could take into consideration is creating caps to the amount of weapons on any given server and to not allow the crafting of higher end weaponry. What caveman, and that is essentially what you are when you start the game, could ever craft a fully auto machine gun? I think that the higher tier weaponry should only be available from crates and airdrops. Really it seems to me that the ability to spam weapons and stockpile them is what gives an unfair advantage to those who can play more than a couple of hours a day. I would say the same about armor. Kevlar should only be a found item, not craftable. Leather and cloth should be the only armors that can be crafted as this would make sense in the real world. I mean, if I could craft some kevlar for myself in the real world, I would. I also think that wood planks should not be craftable without having to make or find the appropriate tools.[/QUOTE] Stopped reading once I saw the word caveman. They've said, and it's been repeated a million times, you are not supposed to be a caveman. You're a guy with no clothes and a rock, that is where the similarity to a caveman ends.

[QUOTE=TexRob;44161834]Stopped reading once I saw the word caveman. They've said, and it's been repeated a million times, you are not supposed to be a caveman. You're a guy with no clothes and a rock, that is where the similarity to a caveman ends.[/QUOTE] I hate the "caveman" idea that everyone has. I go to bed naked every night, so obviously as soon as it all comes off I'm reduced to a club-wielding neanderthal. /sarcasm

"This alpha game that has been out for just over 3 months has no balance. How dare you guys not fix this ASAP? Signed, Idiot"

Well once they fix the air drop bug that is currently in the current build of the game they just need to set a timer which admins can set so air drops don't happen until X number of hours have passed. This way the power groups are not running around in metal bases, or with huge stock piles of c4 until that time has passed. When a friend of mine used to run a server whenever he would wipe he wouldn't have air drops set for 1 week to give everyone an even chance to get established, then he turned on air drops and let the mayhem ensue. However like most people have said, this will always be a problem and there is no real fix for it. The only thing that helps now is durability as now weapon / armor stashes can become unsueable

I'm one of those people who just get set up easy, and when I'm set up, i kill everything i see. don't be mad cause your not good

Less QQ and more pew-pew. I work full time, I have a wife and 3 kids, and I only play during my "leisure time" (which is severely limited). I play on US Central 1 and I do just fine. Sack it up, man, this is Rust.

I think the point was that eventually, everyone's on an equal playing field as far as game mechanics are concerned. From there it'd just be skill and experience. Two entirely different genres of games, however, so it was not a good example.[/QUOTE] Exactly! Thanks for sticking up for the idea man. [editline]7th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=TexRob;44161170]People want everything to come so easy. I'm 36 and am married with a good job, I'm good, but I'm not some pro gamer. Me and two equally skilled friends have gotten full kev and M4s by killing a guy with 3 v 1, two bows and one pick axe, within about 15 minutes of being on the server. We basically hit the end game in 15 minutes. It's not that hard to move up in the Rust world. I don't get the comparisons to things like WoW, you have to spend days, weeks, months to get geared in those types of games. Rust, with your own learned skills, you can do it in minutes.[/QUOTE] This isn't accurate AT ALL! If any player in full Kevlar was smart, they would know not to go out by themselves. Also you could be killed before researching the full Kevlar and then be back at point A so to say. Going off of what Obbi said, your progression to the "end game" was purely based off of luck, there was no INGAME programming that said that one guys in full Kevlar had to be there so you could kill him. [editline]7th March 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=AK42;44161318]One thing that the devs could take into consideration is creating caps to the amount of weapons on any given server and to not allow the crafting of higher end weaponry. What caveman, and that is essentially what you are when you start the game, could ever craft a fully auto machine gun? I think that the higher tier weaponry should only be available from crates and airdrops. Really it seems to me that the ability to spam weapons and stockpile them is what gives an unfair advantage to those who can play more than a couple of hours a day. I would say the same about armor. Kevlar should only be a found item, not craftable. Leather and cloth should be the only armors that can be crafted as this would make sense in the real world. I mean, if I could craft some kevlar for myself in the real world, I would. I also think that wood planks should not be craftable without having to make or find the appropriate tools.[/QUOTE] No, no, no. Implementing in higher level military weapons would ruin the game harder. They should really make military weapons almost invalid in the game. No man on an island would understand ballistics unless they are some physics genius. The odds of creating a successful gun would be very low and the chances you fail would probably end in death.

[QUOTE]This isn't accurate AT ALL! If any player in full Kevlar was smart, they would know not to go out by themselves. Also you could be killed before researching the full Kevlar and then be back at point A [/QUOTE] Making such a big thing out of Kevlar.. Really, once you've learned the recipe, it is also easy to craft, Same for any weapon that exist in Rust.. Oh and why not research it immediately? Research Kits are easily gathered, get 2 of them and get the recipe -.-" Well.. there do also games exist with Item Shops, in games like these you can recompensate the fact you got not as much time for the game than others..

[QUOTE={EG}Lion;44159278]It's very frustrating to come onto a server that has newly been wiped play for around two hours and then come back the next day and still see the same people on that were on last night. They are already fully geared with full Kevlar all the weapons and have a nice base made since they went around killing players that just started and were trying to gather materials. They dominate all airdrops dropped by the admins making it nearly impossible for any newer players to gather C4 or explosives. This game needs some serious balance to it. Just because a group of 5+ people have literally no life but play video games get to win the game makes no sense. There needs to be SOMETHING that will make the playing field more even. Yes, I know that when you play the video for a longer time you get better at it, which is what these "no lifers" have an advantage of already, but even in COD (bare with me here) you can be a prestige master and still you only have all the guns unlocked right? You have a slight advantage over other players from all the time you have put in the game and possibly the 5 extra classes you have picked up, but you do not just wreck everyone you see. Although its not like that in Rust, where I can have full cloth and a P250 verses a group of guys in full Kevlar with M4's within a 12 hour period after a server wipe, just because they had stayed on the server for aprox. a day. (I added one of them on steam and had logged 20 out of 24 hours that day). I have no suggestion for how some system could be added to the game where "no lifers" get a HUGE advantage, but it ruins the game. People do not have time to put in tons of hours just to enjoy a video game, or a portion of the video game. I don't want to hear any shit about "Well leave then" or "You shouldn't be playing on a PvP server there are PvE servers for noobs like you" because saying that stuff would be like "Minecraft must be to hard for you while playing multiplayer, go play singleplayer" Even though playing single player in Minecraft gets extremely boring withing a short period of time. Anyways would love to hear any suggestions or ideas. Thank you.[/QUOTE] Here is my very helpful and informative answer. Join a group and stfu. :]

[QUOTE=jaberus;44163304]Here is my very helpful and informative answer. Join a group and stfu. :][/QUOTE] Nice. Honestly, teams make a world of difference on a server. A lot of the issue talked about in this thread are alleviated when you have multiple people pooling resources.

If you want a somewhat balanced PvP experience or a balanced game pick a game that puts an emphasis on balanced game play. Rust is not that type of game. It is unfair to its very core. You log off and leave your body there for others to murder. You start out with a torch, a rock, and two bandages on a server with people who have guns. You have no base and no tools and must scrape yourself off the ground and establish yourself on the server. If you can not deal with the fact that other people will have the upper hand based on a variety of factors (luck, time spent in game, gear, etc) then you should probably stop playing Rust.

Just because they have no life and can resource well doesn't mean they can aim. Grab a pistol from a rad town and hunt down a noob in kevlar, very easy way to get fully geared.