Problems with game dynamics by removing zombies - Rust

So I saw the developer notes that they wanted to remove zombies from the game "because we're not a DayZ clone".. * Oh rly??? * Do the developers of the game understand the dynamics that are even at work in the game itself from the players' point of view? You made a game like DayZ where you have to scavenge at dangerous irradiated locations to gradually get higher and higher level items, so if we're talking about removing zombies from Rust, why not just take out the rad sites altogether? If you're not "a clone of DayZ". You see this is the problem in the dynamics of the game that comes with removing zombies, how are players supposed to get to higher level gear and equipment except by mimicking DayZ's system?

This game is in no way, a clone of DayZ either way.

[QUOTE=BlackRain;43595933]This game is in no way, a clone of DayZ either way.[/QUOTE] I'm not necessarily implying that it is.. of course it's a completely different game, but the creators themselves seem to have a problem on their hands if they want to distance themselves from DayZ but keep Rust as it is now in terms of developing your technology and research and whatnot. I jus don't understand the logic behind removing zombies but keeping the whole system of tech advancement from stuff at rad sites in place. It makes no sense at all.

[QUOTE=Heruka;43595983]I'm not necessarily implying that it is.. of course it's a completely different game, but the creators themselves seem to have a problem on their hands if they want to distance themselves from DayZ but keep Rust as it is now in terms of developing your technology and research and whatnot. I jus don't understand the logic behind removing zombies but keeping the whole system of tech advancement from stuff at rad sites in place. It makes no sense at all.[/QUOTE] Zombies are just plain annoying, they're not hard to kill and the rad zones are a place to get loot.

[QUOTE=BlackRain;43596011]Zombies are just plain annoying, they're not hard to kill and the rad zones are a place to get loot.[/QUOTE] "Zombies are annoying" isn't the question that I'm asking, I'm saying the whole way the game is orientated in terms of getting better and better loot is the same as DayZ; but zombies are being removed because "we're not a DayZ clone". ~ WTF? .. And you might find them annoying but they're crucial for getting that better loot, without them you'll have 500 douchebags vying for the rad sites and huge groups of uber kevlar people building gigantic towers near them to keep anyone else off the loot. Removing zombies will further tip the balance in favor of the huge centralized gangs of kevtards. [editline]19th January 2014[/editline] My prediction is that they'll remove zombies and then immediately put them back in as huge gangs of kev people start preventing anybody from reaching the very small number of places to get better loot.

yeah but the will replace them with other npc's

You clearly didn't read when you bought the game. “We are in very early development. Some things work, some things don't. [B]We haven't totally decided where the game is headed - so things will change. Things will change a lot. We might even make changes that you think are wrong.[/B] But we have a plan. It's in our interest to make the game awesome - so please trust us.”

[QUOTE=jammers109;43596122]yeah but the will replace them with other npc's[/QUOTE] The devs have said they have no intent to replace zombies with other NPCs.

[QUOTE=Heruka;43596079] My prediction is that they'll remove zombies and then immediately put them back in as huge gangs of kev people start preventing anybody from reaching the very small number of places to get better loot.[/QUOTE] I'm pretty sure radiation will keep people from building a base in there...

[QUOTE=funkywhale;43596137]You clearly didn't read when you bought the game. “We are in very early development. Some things work, some things don't. [B]We haven't totally decided where the game is headed - so things will change. Things will change a lot. We might even make changes that you think are wrong.[/B] But we have a plan. It's in our interest to make the game awesome - so please trust us.”[/QUOTE] That's fine, but my whole point is I think they're kind of in a quandary about how they'll make the game "not a DayZ clone" in terms of advancing in loot if they don't want to use rad sites and zombies? I have no problem with changing the game if it goes in a good direction but I just don't see that removing zombies is heading in any direction at all. It's just making it harder and perhaps even impossible to get loot. [editline]19th January 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=K-B-K;43596189]I'm pretty sure radiation will keep people from building a base in there...[/QUOTE] You should see the server I play on!! There's huge towers near almost any rad site, sometimes only a few yards away sometimes further! Now zombies will be removed? WTF?

they are going to replace zombies with mutant animals, hopefully some of them might actually be a challenge cos frankly the zombies are a joke in terms of threat level to players

[QUOTE=legendofrobbo;43596256]they are going to replace zombies with mutant animals, hopefully some of them might actually be a challenge cos frankly the zombies are a joke in terms of threat level to players[/QUOTE] "We don’t know whether we’re actually going to have to replace them further down the line. It’s not something we want to rush into. Reskinning them so they’re ‘mutants’ instead of ‘zombies’ goes against the whole point of removing them in the first place (which is: we’re not a dayz clone anymore)." ~ This is the statement that has me confused as hell and apparently the devs are just as confused as I am.

[QUOTE=Heruka;43596185]The devs have said they have no intent to replace zombies with other NPCs.[/QUOTE] i heard otherwise, something along the lines of mutants, animals or humans is what i hear.

[QUOTE=Heruka;43596217] You should see the server I play on!! There's huge towers near almost any rad site, sometimes only a few yards away sometimes further! Now zombies will be removed? WTF?[/QUOTE] Well, they've made a huge mistake then. If at any point a group goes to camp near their house, whether to be annoying or make silly threats about raids, they'll have no choice but to leave the house once the radiation kept going or just die lol.

[QUOTE=K-B-K;43596306]Well, they've made a huge mistake then. If at any point a group goes to camp near their house, whether to be annoying or make silly threats about raids, they'll have no choice but to leave the house once the radiation kept going or just die lol.[/QUOTE] All of the towers I've seen are just out of the irradiated spot, but tall enough to kill anyone who goes into the rad site.. With multiple players it would be easy to control all of the loot at specific sites. Then you have the guys who build shacks and other structures over the loot at rad sites that only they can open.. The whole game is going to be changed massively if zombies are removed and I don't think the devs are gona get that until they remove them and see the negative impact.

i just want dinosaurs and rustpunk ogres is that too much to ask

Lol zombies? I got my gear from harvesting wood and climbing through someone's window.

[QUOTE=Chinpop;43596663]Lol zombies? I got my gear from harvesting wood and climbing through someone's window.[/QUOTE] And they got whatever you got from them from zombies or rad sites.

This game has WAY more differences towards dayz than similarities. The 2 major similarities between them are the zombies (which will be removed someday for something else) and the looting items from NPC structures (which in itself is different cause rust has that concentrated in rad towns only and not a HUGE focus of the game like dayz)

[QUOTE=Heruka;43596373]The whole game is going to be changed massively if zombies are removed and I don't think the devs are gona get that until they remove them and see the negative impact.[/QUOTE] I think you've missed the point of alpha testing, and how it differs from beta. What you have said above is the exact reason WHY they need to do this in Alpha - to see what effect it has, and what other changes will be required to make it work with their other plans.

So fucked up how the lower these users post counts are, the higher they believe their opinions are worth. Seriously, some of them talk like they are on the cutting edge of what will succeed or fail. Go look at the #1 spot on steam right now.

[QUOTE=hovergroovie;43599067]So fucked up how the lower these users post counts are, the higher they believe their opinions are worth. Seriously, some of them talk like they are on the cutting edge of what will succeed or fail. Go look at the #1 spot on steam right now.[/QUOTE] Not sure that's relevant really. The game hasn't been out long enough to justify people coming on, looking at someone's post count and saying: "Your post count is low so your opinion can't matter." Infact, what does a post count have to do with how worthy an opinion is? Maybe they've played the game since it was released and only now decided to join the forum.

[QUOTE=Heruka;43595890] Do the developers of the game understand the dynamics that are even at work in the game itself from the players' point of view? You see this is the problem in the dynamics of the game that comes with removing zombies, how are players supposed to get to higher level gear and equipment except by mimicking DayZ's system?[/QUOTE] Of course they understand. I'm sure there will be a replacement to the blueprint system, editing to loot rates, etc. eventually. You have to give them [I]some[/I] credit. You are assuming the developers are stupid enough to remove a crucial leveling aspect without replacing it with something else. They aren't that stupid. They have things planned. Trust them. They wouldn't break their own game in such an obvious manner. [quote]You made a game like DayZ where you have to scavenge at dangerous irradiated locations to gradually get higher and higher level items, so if we're talking about removing zombies from Rust, why not just take out the rad sites altogether? If you're not "a clone of DayZ".[/quote] The Rad sites are hardly dangerous in my opinion. Zombies aren't scary. They are weak, most of the time slow moving, and can only attack by rushing straight at you.

You don't advance in technological level by killing zombies in DayZ.

I'm more worried about what you're going to do when you first start if they remove the zombies. Sure, you can still find stuff in irradiated areas and occasionally in other buildings, but on first start going into irridated areas is practically impossible. There's no way to make rad resistant gear at the outset without getting blueprints or the items, either from zombies or from irradiated areas. Without this gear you can't go into many of these buildings, as by the time you get into one you're already over 150-200 rads. You also won't have things like anti-rad pills to help. What would be the alternative here? I'm sure they're thinking of something. They can't rely on looting other players that much, esp if you have very few lucky players with all kevlar and m4's that just happened to get in and out of an area alive being able to be killed by the masses of people with cloth and bows.

[QUOTE=cpc197c;43601781]I'm more worried about what you're going to do when you first start if they remove the zombies. Sure, you can still find stuff in irradiated areas and occasionally in other buildings, but on first start going into irridated areas is practically impossible.[/QUOTE] Really? Only the two towns with the smokestacks are hard to loot on first spawn imo, and even then I can still go in and loot at least two places before I'm rushing out to get out of the rad area. I mean having some food helps to wane off how long you are taking damage but so long as you start going back around 400ish rads you should be good.

zombies should be not only in the areas of radiation, they must move around the island and destroy resources, animals ... and at night without shelter death.

[QUOTE=faceofff;43602561]zombies should be not only in the areas of radiation, they must move around the island and destroy resources, animals ... and at night without shelter death.[/QUOTE] No, that would be overkill. New players wouldn't be able to get going and will eventually just get frustrated with the game.

[QUOTE=K-B-K;43601359]Not sure that's relevant really. The game hasn't been out long enough to justify people coming on, looking at someone's post count and saying: "Your post count is low so your opinion can't matter." Infact, what does a post count have to do with how worthy an opinion is? Maybe they've played the game since it was released and only now decided to join the forum.[/QUOTE] I meant to imply that the same people that joined this forum since rust are generally the same to speak as though this game hangs by a thread (they make) on these forums. That, or I really do believe that the more you post, the more valid your opinion as a human being is. How do you eye roll

[QUOTE=hovergroovie;43603895]I meant to imply that the same people that joined this forum since rust are generally the same to speak as though this game hangs by a thread (they make) on these forums.[/QUOTE] Well to be honest, it doesn't read anything like you're saying now. It DOES look like you're implying that if you have no posts, your opinion is less valid.