[B]DISCLAIMER[/B]
if you use that "the game is alpha" bullshit
[B]FUCK OUTTA HERE[/B]
PART I: THE REASONING (AKA THE BORING BIT)
so recently ive been seeing threads about the following:
lets make high tier guns really really hard to get so i don't get gunned down a day after the wipe
lets make high tier guns really really hard to make so i don't get gunned down a day after the wipe
lets make high tier guns not a thing and lets all use bows (i'm sure that one was somewhere)
however, when one really thinks about this issue, it isn't the fact that the AK is overpowered, nor that the bolt is insane in terms of damage, or that the pump shotgun hurts too much when you put the barrel against someone else's head. the real issue is lack of variety, which would contribute immensely to balance, as well as a reason to nerf certain weapons
lets get into detail here - i'll divide the guns/projectile weapons up into what is low tier, medium, and high
SHIT: BOW (HV ARROWS)
LOW: Eoka, pipe shotty, bow (?)
MEDIUM: Revolver, Custom SMG, Crossbow, Bow (?), pipe shotty w/slugs, semi-auto rifle (?)
HIGH: Semi-Auto pistol, Semi-Auto rifle (?), bolt action, thompson, pump shotty, assault rifle, M249
PART I SUBSECTION II: REASONING (AKA THE EXTRA BORING BIT)
lets go through the the list here and try and figure out what is wrong, because there is definitely something wrong here
there are three low tier weapons (two if you still think the bow is OP), and one shit one (HV arrows are really dumb as of now. lets make arrows fly faster by making them take more materials to craft and also do like 10 damage oh man) ((that is my opinion you might love HV arrows and if that is the case then i hope you don't die a lot and prove me wrong))
2/3 low tier weapons can sort of be understandable, one is reminiscent of the very first firearm and the other is a shotgun that you can only shoot once. simple, but lacks variation
and strength. just because a weapon is low tier doesn't mean its not supposed to be able to compete with higher tier weaponry if someone has skill. you cannot take someone down
who has a custom SMG and you have only an eoka, the skill gap is nonexistent - because it's like trying to take down a wall with a pin. the bow? most likely, but the bow has a skill range. if you are really really damn good and the other guy with the AK is really really damn bad, you can kill them with a bow.
the medium tier weaponry section is much beefier compared to the low tier, and that is because from my experience, you can use all of those weapons to compete with the high tier weaponry, if you are good enough. the pipe shotgun with slugs is the poor man's bolt, the custom SMG is the poor man's pump shotty / thompson, etc. however, all of these weapons (except the semi-auto rifle, i have no idea how that will perform) seem to fit rust's idea of guns much better than the AK or the thompson. junkyard shit that you slap together and bang, now they shoot bullets at bad guys. you could argue the look of the thompson and ak being junkyard shit, but the internals sure as hell are not. the crossbow is simply a step up from the bow and very rightly so - it takes a bit to reload, but dishes out "holy fuck im gonna bleed out he hit me in the head man pick me up" damage and much better range. but, if you miss that shot and you dont have another in your hotbar, you're a little fucked. that's balance, folks. but what of the high tier stuff?
the high tier weaponry section contains weapons that should barely be in rust. i'm mostly talking about the assault rifle (not the ak, that isnt what it is). something that shoots a sophisticated round (you try and put together a .556 yourself bub) at a high fire rate (i thought it took humans like hundreds of years to make the first "automatic gun") and pretty
good accuracy and reliability (lets shoot 500 magazines of ammo and not have the gun jam at all). the thompson sort of makes sense, and the bolt makes sense as well. the damage for the bolt? not really any sense at all. i understand it's supposed to be rust's excuse for a sniper rifle, but an assault rifle which shoots the same caliber out of what i assume is a more sophisticated machine does less damage than the bolt, which is just a tube with bullets in it and a bolt mechanism. there is nothing special about the bolt, so there's no reason for it to do insta-dead damage. however, these are high tier weaponry, which means they are to have more advantages than disadvantages.
in combat, low tier has nothing against high tier, and medium tier can maybe combat with high tier in certain situations if the ones with high tier weaponry get ambushed. im not asking for 300 weapons here to make the distinction between low - medium - high a seamless contrast, but a bit of variation can go a long way. i just wanna be able to take down that guy who has been harassing me with his posse in more ways than a bow / pipe shotgun / revolver at times. of course, when im in that position, i have no need to want that - i can decimate anybody who has anything that isnt automatic when i have something automatic, and i have power. this power leads to the mindset of "lets fuck this guy and take his measly shit", instead of "i got some good shit on me, dont wanna lose it by fighting this guy. he might have something that can hurt me pretty bad" or "i wanna shoot this guy but my gun jammed again damnit"
"SO WHAT THE FUCK DO YOU WANT THEN KYLE YOUVE BEEN RANTING FOR LIKE 30 ESSAYS WORTH OF SHIT WHAT DO YOU WANT"
here it go
WEAPON IDEAS + REBALANCING IDEAS + ARMOR IDEAS + MAKE-MELEE-NOT-SHIT IDEAS
WEAPON IDEAS:
FORMAT:
some stupid shit before the
[B]GUN[/B]
some - unique - things - also tier
my idea of damage and armor penetration
special attachment:
special property:
reload time
reasoning:
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if we can make handmade shells, we can make handmade not-shotgun shells for the brand spankin-old
[B]MUSKET[/B]
single shot no shit - flintlock + fuse variation? - low tier weapon
40 base damage, but insane bullet drop so you cant hit shit from far away
cannot penetrate metal armor very well or at all, so you get that 12 or 20 damage with no bleeding
clothes? well, thick wool coats were known to catch these rounds, so they'd most likely provide quite a bit of extra protection, depending on what clothing you have
special attachment: bayonet (middle mouse to stabby stab)
special property: if youre 20% wet and above, this gun dont fire
not a ridiculously long reload time, maybe 3-4 seconds of jamming that shit down that barrel
reasoning: while this may seem extremely impractical, to me it seems like a step up from the bow, and needs quite a bit of skill to use. however, the bow still has some advantages over this. i also like muskets
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the idea that was mentioned at least 338^28 times before, the
[B]DOUBLE BARRELED SHOTGUN[/B]
two shots - two thinned-out pipe shotguns duct taped to each other variant ? - got that "i can shoot two shells at once" property - or two shells one after the other - low/med tier
same pipe shotty damage with the varying shells
special attachment: double bayonet (middle mouse to stabby stab x2)
special property: two shells at once baby bang boom
id say a bit longer than the original pipe shotty reload time
reasoning: literally nobody would say no to this
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lets get some DIY shit up in here with a
[B]MODDED FLARE GUN[/B]
its a flare gun gun - takes 9mm - also a variant that shoots flares - single shot reliable eoka - low tier weapon OR high tier, depending on attachments
id say a higher headshot multiplier, but same 9mm damage from the semi
special attachment: maybe you can make variants that take different calibers, or put a scope on that shit for some long range assholery
special property: high headshot multiplier, handy dandy lil gun (fast deploy)
shorter than pipe shotty reload time
reasoning: its meant to be a reliable eoka AND a late-game pocket sniper rifle, w
We need mosin and SKS!
[QUOTE=4ng3l1z3r;49033098]We need mosin and SKS![/QUOTE]
well theres a WW2 era weapon in it already, a mosin and SKS would be great additions to the bolt action and semi-auto rifle family i think
1- you're dumb
2- I liked almost everything you said, except for the flaregun using 9mm ammo dafuq!
3- m249 will be op :/
You are overcomplicating this.
The root of the problem is the fact most of the shit guns you mentioned are rarer than most of the good ones. I'm doing an experiment on my server right now... we simply disabled crafting of automatics and the bolt.
We are a little over a week into this wipe now and it drastically changed what people run with.
First, p250s, shotguns and custom SMGs are pretty much inexistant. Our group of 3 found the p250 and as of yet we didn't see any others. We haven't seen a smg or shotgun either.
Our armory consists of approx 8 AKs, as many bolts and about 30 thompsons. Most of the people we meet rock thompsons and people are really careful with their AKs and bolts. We see lots of players trading rare BPs and sizeable amounts of resources for guns.
We ain't done tweaking it, but just this first step really changes the whole game for the best. It really gives back importance to the whole range of guns and makes finding the uncraftable ones a much more important event, be it from a crate, player, airdrop, heli, or raid.
[QUOTE=ericks12;49036026]1- you're dumb
2- I liked almost everything you said, except for the flaregun using 9mm ammo dafuq!
3- m249 will be op :/[/QUOTE]
Somehow I doubt the m249 will be op! Maybe up close but the recoil on that thing is going to be extreme. I can't see 2 many people running about with one when Mr Ak could easily kill u and take it for himself.
[QUOTE='Deicide[RS];49036909']You are overcomplicating this.
The root of the problem is the fact most of the shit guns you mentioned are rarer than most of the good ones. I'm doing an experiment on my server right now... we simply disabled crafting of automatics and the bolt.
We are a little over a week into this wipe now and it drastically changed what people run with.
First, p250s, shotguns and custom SMGs are pretty much inexistant. Our group of 3 found the p250 and as of yet we didn't see any others. We haven't seen a smg or shotgun either.
Our armory consists of approx 8 AKs, as many bolts and about 30 thompsons. Most of the people we meet rock thompsons and people are really careful with their AKs and bolts. We see lots of players trading rare BPs and sizeable amounts of resources for guns.
We ain't done tweaking it, but just this first step really changes the whole game for the best. It really gives back importance to the whole range of guns and makes finding the uncraftable ones a much more important event, be it from a crate, player, airdrop, heli, or raid.[/QUOTE]
while that may be a fine fix on your server, people game-wide would complain about not being able to craft their AKs and bolties (especially the bolty, why would you not be able to craft something like a junkyard bolt in rust? it makes no sense. although with the immense damage of the weapon and it being the only high-tier single action rifle, i guess it makes sense for now.) basically what im saying is, good on you. you've made a fix in your own server. but that fix cannot be applied everywhere.
you're limiting players, which is something a lot of other players wont like.
i dont really think im overcomplicating much, im saying that a lot more variation in weaponry can go a long way for newcomers to defend themselves against people who have bolts, aks, or thompsons
Why no just remove the ability to craft the med and high guns you listed as well as their respective ammuntition. This will greatly expand both early- and midgame mechanics. More melee and the use of unrealiable guns. Any guns you do find could be empty and of poor quality.
Rust is or was about restricting you. All I see now is a mad-dash to gain aks and bolties. It doesn't take more than a day to aquire most of these and have all the blueprints. Keep the rarity but ditch the crafting. Melee is only existing in events and gamemodes.
[QUOTE=Kyle222;49039299]while that may be a fine fix on your server, people game-wide would complain about not being able to craft their AKs and bolties (especially the bolty, why would you not be able to craft something like a junkyard bolt in rust? it makes no sense. although with the immense damage of the weapon and it being the only high-tier single action rifle, i guess it makes sense for now.) basically what im saying is, good on you. you've made a fix in your own server. but that fix cannot be applied everywhere.
you're limiting players, which is something a lot of other players wont like.
i dont really think im overcomplicating much, im saying that a lot more variation in weaponry can go a long way for newcomers to defend themselves against people who have bolts, aks, or thompsons[/QUOTE]
Yes, you are overcomplicating it.
You had it right with this one " when one really thinks about this issue, it isn't the fact that the AK is overpowered, nor that the bolt is insane in terms of damage, or that the pump shotgun hurts too much when you put the barrel against someone else's head" but you messed it up here "the real issue is lack of variety".
While it is good to have variation, the root of the problem is that everyone [B]always[/B] wants to wield the best weapon out there and if that weapon is easy to get then all variations you introduce are worthless. If they can, people will avoid the crap and go for the best 100% of the time.
The bolt and assault rifle are great and fit perfectly in the tier they are in (fix the assault rifle recoil though), but when you can get them in the first day after a few hours of play, that is in the end the problem because you quickly make any other weapon obsolete.
Now I agree with you that making those high tier weapons unable to be crafted so people go find them might not work in the long run, it's just a short term solution. People will want to have them and craft them when ever they can. However, it is a step on the right direction because it tackles the root of the problem... the gun currently is too easy to get.
[QUOTE=Kyle222;49039299]while that may be a fine fix on your server, people game-wide would complain about not being able to craft their AKs and bolties (especially the bolty, why would you not be able to craft something like a junkyard bolt in rust? it makes no sense. although with the immense damage of the weapon and it being the only high-tier single action rifle, i guess it makes sense for now.) basically what im saying is, good on you. you've made a fix in your own server. but that fix cannot be applied everywhere.
you're limiting players, which is something a lot of other players wont like.
i dont really think im overcomplicating much, im saying that a lot more variation in weaponry can go a long way for newcomers to defend themselves against people who have bolts, aks, or thompsons[/QUOTE]
Hey man if I learned anything from this game and Garry is f**k people who complain. Lots of players complained when I made this change but these same people are thanking me today because they see the effect this has on the game. Before it finding an AK in a crate was "meh who cares" and now its like winning the lottery. People going out with their AKs now have something to lose that theh cannot replace... People raiding can now expect to find guns and be extremely happy doing so.. People are going for the airdrops and figthing for them more than ever because they need the guns.
Super healthy and logical change.. And it increases the use and importance of all lower tier weapons sigbificantly..
it would work if to craft the ak or the bolty you had to find an actual broken ak somewere and fix it up this would make it hard as fuck to get
[QUOTE=ericks12;49040402]it would work if to craft the ak or the bolty you had to find an actual broken ak somewere and fix it up this would make it hard as fuck to get[/QUOTE]
Yeah that would work too. The base premise here is that you wouldn't be able to mass produce them and you would have to go out and work for them.
yeah maybe thats actually the root of the problem
maybe instead of just airdrops dropping the guns, maybe the airdrops drops stuff for npcs that hold the guns and shoot at anyone who attacks them (these guns being nearly every high tier one?) so, if you ever get one of their guns, itd be in shitty condition and youd need to fix it up to try and research it i guess
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