Slant stairs and half-blocks - Sorry Garry you got the wrong idea on this one - Rust

Hi all, hi dev team and Garry in particular! :) The last devblog has been great news except for a point: the removal of half-blocks and slant stairs. Quoting devblog... [QUOTE]We removed the half-height block and the slanted block. You probably want to know why. You probably used them all the time, you probably think they were really really useful. Did you use them as a half height block and slanted block? Or did you use them to ‘be creative’? Well, we appreciate that creating shelves is now impossible. But we can make that possible again by adding, you know, shelves. We appreciate you can’t create bunker style windows, but we can fix that by adding bunker style windows. You don’t need these blocks, no-one used them for what they were for, so let’s just cut the fat and get shit tight as fuck.[/QUOTE] Well. You know what? You are just PLAIN WRONG. Sure, some people, many people, used them in ways you didn't imagine, even glitching sometimes. But you ALSO have (had) MANY PEOPLE USING THEM RIGHT. I'll add some screenshots of my personal use-cases when I have access to them, but personally I saw two great interests to them: 1. Creating nicely leveled floors on hills (well, as long as you have foundation stairs technically you still can but you can't place walls together with it AFAIK, whereas you can make totally enclosed stairs with the slanted block). Either because it's the only way to make it happen considering the place topology, or just to create architecturally interesting buildings with "full-floors" mixed with "half-floors", or "grand entrances" etc. 2. Enhancing building stability (and design) by using half-blocks on the first floor, although maybe it was just my imagination that it improved the stability. In which case it could become an interesting and legitimate use if implemented. Also, I'm sorry to say it but, L/U stairs are a pain. They are useful and sometimes necessary, sure, especially in small buildings and other cramped areas, but not nice to "use". I really prefer slopes whenever I can afford it space-wise because it's just smoother to move around. So, while I totally understand that you would have to remove these two blocks temporarily to avoid nasty griefs or glitches, I really, really ask you to please reconsider the fact to make it definitive. It may be a detail for you, but frankly it is not. At the very least make it so that in the end it's an option to activate for admins or it's a community mod, but it would be the best for them to return in the standard Rust. Thanks for reading. :) (To those who share my view, you're welcome to post screenshots demonstrating the many "legit" -aka intended- uses of slants and half-blocks. ;))

Sorry but it's his game, he's got the right idea for what he wants to do.

Saying somebody is wrong isn't really adequate when talking about something you can just have an opinion on. You can disagree with the opinion. Personally, I am just excited what's to come next, I loved the windows and doors concepts in the devblog. Just wait and see, its nothing to get all upset about. Same outrage after removing ladders.

I just figured out I could make cool bunkers out of them and now I cant :( - but im only sad cause I didn't get to try it out. Just chill and wait to see what its replaced with :)

[QUOTE=H8_RICE;49012953]I just figured out I could make cool bunkers out of them and now I cant :( - but im only sad cause I didn't get to try it out. Just chill and wait to see what its replaced with :)[/QUOTE] It's going to be replaced with windows shutters. There will be different shapes and one of them is.... you guess it, bunker/arrow slit style.

[QUOTE=Citan;49012691]Well. You know what? You are just PLAIN WRONG.[/QUOTE] Agreed [B]Citan[/B], since when was "being creative" wrong in a sandbox game!?

[QUOTE=Citan;49012691]Hi all, hi dev team and Garry in particular! :) The last devblog has been great news except for a point: the removal of half-blocks and slant stairs. Quoting devblog... Well. You know what? You are just PLAIN WRONG. Sure, some people, many people, used them in ways you didn't imagine, even glitching sometimes. But you ALSO have (had) MANY PEOPLE USING THEM RIGHT. I'll add some screenshots of my personal use-cases when I have access to them, but personally I saw two great interests to them: 1. Creating nicely leveled floors on hills (well, as long as you have foundation stairs technically you still can but you can't place walls together with it AFAIK, whereas you can make totally enclosed stairs with the slanted block). Either because it's the only way to make it happen considering the place topology, or just to create architecturally interesting buildings with "full-floors" mixed with "half-floors", or "grand entrances" etc. 2. Enhancing building stability (and design) by using half-blocks on the first floor, although maybe it was just my imagination that it improved the stability. In which case it could become an interesting and legitimate use if implemented. Also, I'm sorry to say it but, L/U stairs are a pain. They are useful and sometimes necessary, sure, especially in small buildings and other cramped areas, but not nice to "use". I really prefer slopes whenever I can afford it space-wise because it's just smoother to move around. So, while I totally understand that you would have to remove these two blocks temporarily to avoid nasty griefs or glitches, I really, really ask you to please reconsider the fact to make it definitive. It may be a detail for you, but frankly it is not. At the very least make it so that in the end it's an option to activate for admins or it's a community mod, but it would be the best for them to return in the standard Rust. Thanks for reading. :) (To those who share my view, you're welcome to post screenshots demonstrating the many "legit" -aka intended- uses of slants and half-blocks. ;))[/QUOTE] Hello, if I may make a suggestion or two. I find it regrettable to have eliminated half block and a half slope because it allow the player many opportunities you have removed us. I understand you not supprimié this treatment only because you do not want that we can make shelf in anticipation of the possibility of different storage. As long as the replacement tool are not available, why deleted what works ?? On the other hand, buildings in Simple mode display game, take a long time to appear after a TP, we arrive on the construction and're nothing now, we must wait for the building appears to be able to do anything. had you solutions. As against the idea turrets and new signs and very good, retained. I count on you and the whole community to support the request for surrender up half block and a half slope of the next weeks. Thank you for your involvement in the development of Rust. Best regards.

[QUOTE=neil.hillman;49013888]Agreed [B]Citan[/B], since when was "being creative" wrong in a sandbox game!?[/QUOTE] I agree 100%. In my case i used the blocks to create bigger buildings ( to get higher and higher, not even always for construction. )

[QUOTE=Caboose R.;49012717]Sorry but it's his game, he's got the right idea for what he wants to do.[/QUOTE] Interesting. So, you are telling that Garry is developing a "massiverly multiplayer" game for his fun alone? I daresay you are insulting the man's intelligence here. Beyond that, as long as it's a commercial game, it's only natural to take current players feedback into account. After all, they are representative of your audience and can be natural promoters or demoters of your product towards potential clients. Finally, while I perfectly understand a removal when an element breaks the game without adding anything, I cannot stand silent when one removes an element [B]just because it's easier to plain remove it than to "fix" it[/B]. Especially, since, you know, AFAIK nearly nobody complained about it (apart hardcore raiders maybe?) and people were actually using it on a daily basis, in its intended use or otherwise. I know I will sound rude when saying this, but I really feel it as an complacent act of lazyness rather than a thoughtful decision. Taking into account both the tone used and the message given (as if Garry was a "know-it-all"). That Garry uses a crude tone is fine with me. That's his style, I have no right to criticize that. That Garry behaves as if he knew better than the players what is good for them, is far more debatable. If the ground for his decision was sound, I would have said nothing. Imo that's far from being the case. If they really didn't want people to use this as shelves why not changing the properties to forbid deployables? Or to prevent tricking system to make fences, make it so that if you remove the half-block everything that was attached crumbles (wild ideas here never tried to do either myself so not sure how people do this)? Maybe it's too complex in current implementation, but at least try to find a solution before throwing the towel.

You need give Us more construction elements, but not delete them. I'm builder, not only killer,or raider... Guys, please Bring the Half Blocks, Stairs Back! [video=youtube;4wn_EgQ3cPo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4wn_EgQ3cPo[/video] [video=youtube;eQHO-f4WTCM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQHO-f4WTCM[/video] [video=youtube;MogTQc7wgWI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MogTQc7wgWI[/video] [video=youtube;FpK0KzEKvFk]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpK0KzEKvFk[/video]

Yeah the problem is he said he will add stuff like shelves and new windows, but what about the people that used them for their actual purpose like ramps? Alot of builders like to use the half ramp in bases because they are easier to get around your base and look alot better. U-Shape and L-Shape stairs are a pain(yes they take up less space but they plain suck) there is no stairs that go straight now since you cant use ramp and if you place a door next to the u-shape and l-shape stairs its hard to get through the door unlike the ramp. i can see getting rid of the halfblock but he should have kept the ramp and allow building off of it like the halfblock

Little boxes little boxes little boxes made of Ticky Tacky and they all look just the same. Rust the new suburbia of computer games

the thing I don't understand is how was these being used the wrong way if they plan to add shelves, bunker windows, ect pretty much all the things these blocks was being used for was the point in removing 1 items to replace with many needless to say none of the names items will fix the main problem that is now in place by removing the blocks not being able to level floors and walls this was the main purpose of the blocks any way you look at it this was a very bad choice and not well thought out I mean how is so say trying to fix a problem no one knows of by removing something that has so many uses to create so many more. no wonder other games like rust are ahead of adding things rust has not yet. really take a min. and look at all the reason given for them to have removed them and see if 1 of all of them make any sense at all. here are the 5 I can remember of the top of my head [I]people making shelves[/I] - [B]gary said they will be adding shelves so I guess making shelves isn't bad [/B][I]people making bunker windows[/I] - [B]they said they will be adding these so again not a bad thing [/B][I]people building raid towers [/I]- [B]people will still make them even without the blocks so pointless[/B] [I]people blocking other players in bases [/I]- [B]people will now just use walls so again pointless[/B] [I]people reinforcing walls with them [/I]- [B]now just use barricades pointless again [/B]now the problems it created can no longer level floors in bases can no longer get walls at the same height can no longer make walk ways to your main doors can no longer make easy access stairs to other floors can no longer make shelves can no longer bunker windows over all creativity now destroyed but please enlighten me as to how removing them helped in any way

[QUOTE=Alcatraz.;49036097]but please enlighten me as to how removing them helped in any way[/QUOTE] The 'I got raided and halfbocked' reddit crowd put way too much pressure on the devs.

[QUOTE=Alcatraz.;49036097]the thing I don't understand is how was these being used the wrong way if they plan to add shelves, bunker windows, ect pretty much all the things these blocks was being used for was the point in removing 1 items to replace with many needless to say none of the names items will fix the main problem that is now in place by removing the blocks not being able to level floors and walls this was the main purpose of the blocks any way you look at it this was a very bad choice and not well thought out I mean how is so say trying to fix a problem no one knows of by removing something that has so many uses to create so many more. no wonder other games like rust are ahead of adding things rust has not yet. really take a min. and look at all the reason given for them to have removed them and see if 1 of all of them make any sense at all. here are the 5 I can remember of the top of my head [I]people making shelves[/I] - [B]gary said they will be adding shelves so I guess making shelves isn't bad [/B][I]people making bunker windows[/I] - [B]they said they will be adding these so again not a bad thing [/B][I]people building raid towers [/I]- [B]people will still make them even without the blocks so pointless[/B] [I]people blocking other players in bases [/I]- [B]people will now just use walls so again pointless[/B] [I]people reinforcing walls with them [/I]- [B]now just use barricades pointless again [/B]now the problems it created can no longer level floors in bases can no longer get walls at the same height can no longer make walk ways to your main doors can no longer make easy access stairs to other floors can no longer make shelves can no longer bunker windows over all creativity now destroyed but please enlighten me as to how removing them helped in any way[/QUOTE] Garry lied. The real issue here was slanted blocks allowing crates to go through floors and tool cupboards to be placed slanted. Both of these unintended uses created huge advantages for players who knew about them. For instance, I have been building cellar bases for 6 months and I never had one raided except one occasion and it turned out to be a player we later found to be using esp, so no surprise.

There was never a real need to remove them except for an inability to properly code.

You know, sometimes there might be other reasons why stuff is removed. Maybe it wasn't only because there were numerous possible glitches, maybe it was also done because it might cause errors on the server or just to see how the removal of the half block will affect building in general. Or its just removed to fix the glitches that were possible with it. I still think they will bring it back anytime in the future when they polished the stability system and fixed the exploits. There seems to be a lot of complaints on almost all the changes made and this scares me. Don't worry devs, you're doing just fine. Don't undo every decision, scared that there might be another outrage in the forums about them. I've seen it happen with ladders, cupboard changes and now the half block. Most people didn't even notice they were gone when the first topic in this forum already said: "Bring the half block back!", just like it was gone for months and everybody already missed it. To the community: Voice your opinions but do a little thinking first...what if they just want to fix the exploits possible with the half block without the community complaining about griefing, rock bases, cellar bases and so on... Well Datadawg you possibly know that Facepunch is only a bunch of people making a nice game...why would you be so rude then? Since you stated that they lack "ability to code", implying you can do better, why don't you tell us about the mistakes they made?

[QUOTE=FowsT;49037297]You know, sometimes there might be other reasons why stuff is removed. Maybe it wasn't only because there were numerous possible glitches, maybe it was also done because it might cause errors on the server or just to see how the removal of the half block will affect building in general. Or its just removed to fix the glitches that were possible with it. I still think they will bring it back anytime in the future when they polished the stability system and fixed the exploits. There seems to be a lot of complaints on almost all the changes made and this scares me. Don't worry devs, you're doing just fine. Don't undo every decision, scared that there might be another outrage in the forums about them. I've seen it happen with ladders, cupboard changes and now the half block. Most people didn't even notice they were gone when the first topic in this forum already said: "Bring the half block back!", just like it was gone for months and everybody already missed it. To the community: Voice your opinions but do a little thinking first...what if they just want to fix the exploits possible with the half block without the community complaining about griefing, rock bases, cellar bases and so on... Well Datadawg you possibly know that Facepunch is only a bunch of people making a nice game...why would you be so rude then? Since you stated that they lack "ability to code", implying you can do better, why don't you tell us about the mistakes they made?[/QUOTE] The block had a purpose, they were used to level half-floors in house. this had many side effects, like the ability to snap floors at half level. these half floor were always part of building and everyone used them, since forever. then one morning Garry wake up and tell the community that is not how they should build, he remove the halfblock entirely. Not only that, but he remove the stairs. Before, we had either the triangle stairs, which worked well but required more space. we had the half block so we could crouch jump to the half level , making a compact way to climb a stair in just a 1x1, which many people included in their bases. and finally the L-shape and U-shape stair which are just a pain seriously, theyre so steep its almost impossible to climb them and go through the doorway since its not centered. The only reason Garry removed the half block is because he didnt want people to hide loot in ½ X 1. It does not fix any exploit, it just make building harder.

[QUOTE=Caboose R.;49012717]Sorry but it's his game, he's got the right idea for what he wants to do.[/QUOTE] Game development rule number 1. You aren't making a game for you, you're making it for your customer ;)

@louisclub: You must be talking of "elevators" and those are one part I really disliked. You shouldn't just be able to build below you while jumping...

[QUOTE=FowsT;49037297]You know, sometimes there might be other reasons why stuff is removed. Maybe it wasn't only because there were numerous possible glitches, maybe it was also done because it might cause errors on the server or just to see how the removal of the half block will affect building in general. Or its just removed to fix the glitches that were possible with it. I still think they will bring it back anytime in the future when they polished the stability system and fixed the exploits. There seems to be a lot of complaints on almost all the changes made and this scares me. Don't worry devs, you're doing just fine. Don't undo every decision, scared that there might be another outrage in the forums about them. I've seen it happen with ladders, cupboard changes and now the half block. Most people didn't even notice they were gone when the first topic in this forum already said: "Bring the half block back!", just like it was gone for months and everybody already missed it. To the community: Voice your opinions but do a little thinking first...what if they just want to fix the exploits possible with the half block without the community complaining about griefing, rock bases, cellar bases and so on... Well Datadawg you possibly know that Facepunch is only a bunch of people making a nice game...why would you be so rude then? Since you stated that they lack "ability to code", implying you can do better, why don't you tell us about the mistakes they made?[/QUOTE] Maybe there were exploits (even though nobody can answer my questions about them). Maybe there's a new building system coming. Maybe they were causing low FPS. Maybe Facepunch was getting sued by midget advocacy groups for their representation of "half-blocks". Maybe they were killing puppies and causing childhood diseases. Maybe maybe maybe. These would all be potentially reasonable justifications, but none of these things were explained in the "you're not using them right" paragraph of the devblog, as part of the new "better communication" thing we were told about a month ago. If they changed it so that sulfur only spawned in special rocks at the very tops of snowy mountains, you'd have some people on this board saying "maybe they had a good reason, stop complaining, it's alpha, let's wait and see what happens, I'm so excited for next week's change". There's a difference between a bug-tester and a playtester: the latter also provides feedback on design flaws. Which means for feedback to be effective we need to have some kind of insight into the design, the reason for changes, the goal we're trying to achieve, the destination we're trying to reach... that there IS a destination in mind... "Maybe maybe maybe" doesn't suffice for you to dismiss legitimate criticism as typical update day outrage.

[QUOTE=FowsT;49037297] Since you stated that they lack "ability to code", implying you can do better?[/QUOTE] Logical fallacy. Criticism does not imply that the one criticizing can do better. I can't cook, but I can tell you if something tastes like crap. As far as half-blocks and whatnot go, I don't really care personally. But I understand the argument from the people that do care, and I think it's a legitimate beef.

n

[QUOTE=Datadawg;49046778]Watch this thread vanish into thin air just like the poll about the same.[/QUOTE] You mean this one? [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1491754[/url] It's right on the front page...

I have no idea what Garry was thinking, that made him decide this was a good idea... I want them back.

[QUOTE=OMalley;49046930]I have no idea what Garry was thinking, that made him decide this was a good idea... I want them back.[/QUOTE] Read the blog from last thursday and you know why. [url]http://playrust.com/devblog-84/[/url]

Maybe they wouldn't work with the new building system. When that goes live, people will forget about the half block.

They were apparently remove to "get things right as fuck"

"Tight" as fuck. Maybe their should be instructions that come with the new pieces so everyone knows the proper way to use them. Lol.

Thanks for the correction this new iPhone is giving me some greif 😎