Considering Shutting Down Due to DDoS and a Garbage Provider - Rust

I had goals and aspirations to have the most popular and widely enjoyed community Rust server around. Those plans have been derailed by factors outside of my control. Those of you that have played on my server know what kind of guy I am, and know that I have done the best that I could to provide a server that players, local to Denver or not, could enjoy without having to deal with hackers, cheaters, pre-pubescent trolls, post-adolescent trolls, and others whose aim is to ruin the experience of others due to their own self-loathing and hatred. Anytime someone has logged on my server with a preexisting VAC ban on their profile that occurred within a 365-day time frame, 98% of the time, I have banned them to protect the community. I am suspicious of people who have "Private" profiles and I watch them play the game until I am satisfied their motives are not malevolent. I have watched people who are accused of hacking and made a judgment call based on how they play. I have been fair in every assessment all to protect and preserve the community I had hoped to shape. And we were winning. And we were coming into our own. To spur growth, I made a successful bid on TopRustServers.com for the top sponsored server on the list. We peaked at 91 players out of 100 on at once between Jan 31 and Feb 2. Somewhere along the way, I must have banned someone who was capable of launching a near-continuous large scale DDoS attack on my server. (This is all, of course, according to HFB, my provider) The interruptions to my server, despite server migration, a new IP, and DDoS protection, have been numerous and catastrophic. I submitted ticket after ticket to HFB Servers in hopes to remedy this problem quickly and painlessly. The communication between us has been sparse and the few emails that I have received have been less than helpful. During this most recent attack tonight, and after submitting 2 tickets within 24 hours with response, I sent this email to the GM of HFB: [QUOTE]This is absolutely unacceptable. All I want is a reliable, stable central US server location with DDoS protection. Why is this so hard to secure? There are other providers out there that are more expensive and I am willing to pay them MORE money in order to have stability of service. You and I are in the same shoes, except you are actually generating revenue from this business, so you have much more to lose. If my service has not returned in a reasonable time frame, I will pursue another provider to host my Rust server.[/QUOTE] As you can see, I was a bit upset. Shortly, and in record fashion for HFB, I got this reply: [QUOTE]This email is not meant for support, you must wait for a response from our support reps normally. With that being said I took a look at your ticket and by what you are stating (a bout of 5-10 minute rubber-banding every once and awhile) then you are most likely being attacked during those periods of time (most common attack time is 300-600 seconds), however since the server has DDoS protection instead of the server going down completely during the attack and being nullrouted the server stays online. DDoS protection is not perfect we have yet to see any DDoS protection provider be able to standup to a 10gbps attack without any negative impact, IE a few minutes of rubber banding in your case (packetloss), We have spent well over $2000 testing out DDoS protection providers. If you feel that you can find a provider that can indeed meet those needs I suggest you explore them as an opportunity as we simply can not meet your needs. We are launching our new DDoS protected offerings in Chicago, LA, and New York here very soon (slightly higher cost per service exact amount tbd) however as I said above none will work perfectly, you will see at least some sort of rubberbanding (packetloss) during very large attacks.[/QUOTE] I read that as a corporate tailored way of telling me to go fuck myself. He seems to think that I had only one or two attacks, each lasting 5-10 minutes a piece, but that was only true in the first ticket I submitted. They would last from 5-10 minutes at a time, back to back to back to back. We had maybe a few hours respite from this nonsense. And then tonight, it continued. Constant severe rubberbanding, outrageous packet loss, and a server ping well into the high 100s to mid 200s. His response, which told me that DDoS protection is useless since when the attacks occur, your server will still experience the same effects, only it won't crash. He proceeds to qualify and value his company's research and due-diligence in protecting against these attacks by telling me they have spent well over $2000. And then goes on to tell me to hit the road if I don't like what I HAVE [B]PAID[/B] FOR. I started to look for other providers but then I started thinking... If I relocate, get a new IP again, and even get the best of the best DDoS protection, what's to stop the attacks from happening? Nothing. They will keep happening, more than likely. And I'll be paying every month to run a crippled server. That is bad business sense. That is bad common sense. Ultimately, it's not me that loses out on anything material. I'll regain the money that I have paid into this hobby. I paid to provide others the chance to play this incredible game and grow with it. The ones that lose in this scenario are the 150+ players that would frequent my server. Whoever this anonymous cowardly, gutless, and spineless asshole is has completely ruined it for them with his DDoS attacks. This provider, with this reply to a PAYING customer, and a seemingly complete bankruptcy of business ethics and practice based upon my experience and others, has ultimately cost the Rust community a champion for their cause. I designed and printed cardstock flyers with my server info as well as a description of how to get the game. I worked out a deal with local game shops to have Steam wallet cards attached to each of the flyers to increase attention for the game. I was even working out an event with a local gaming arena to have a dedicated Rust night and local meetup for the server regulars to continue to raise awareness. And I did it because I believe in and enjoy this game. And when you believe in something, you get behind it. You don't half-ass it, as the provider has done. And you don't try to destroy it, as the attacker has done. So with that, I am leaning towards shutting down my server. I tremendously appreciate all of you that have played. But ultimately, it's just not worth the headache of trying to breathe life into a black hole. Maybe I'll start back up once the game is further along...who knows? As for now, I wish you all the best of luck.

2000 dollars worth of testing for DDOS protection on a game server hosting company? these guys are a joke. $2000. lol. watch out. annoying. i was having fun :(

I'll be sad to see it go down. You are the best admin I have met yet. Let me know if it comes back up! -Cleveland Brown

Thanks Blu from all of the zL clan. It was fun.

Ddos protection is an extremely tricky matter. It's akin to building a bridge to hold up an indefinitely increasing weight. The bottom line is that even big, official and well protected servers can go down easily. Around the new year a twitter user named •••••••••••• (facepunch censors this name) took down: league of legends servers, dota servers and servers for many other games and companies. HFB's answer is basically an attempt to explain that they simply can't handle it, despite the money spent on testing the issue. You can shut down your server if you feel you are being targeted but stay or come back: ultimately you will cone to rely on the relative obscurity of your server or the skid's percieved worthlessness of ddosing it.

I used to hate on hfb nitrous fpsplayersand multiplay since I too thought that they were shit because they could not handle DDoS attacks. Then I looked into the cost of protection and holy shit is it expensive. If you are getting 10gbps attacks like they say its going to cost them over $700/mo for a single Ip in most locations for 20gbps protection. Heck the atlanta area (where I am) DDoS protection costs over 5k for that amount. Im not sure where your server was before but yeah, its expensive man.

It is so sad to see such an amazing server admin have to shutdown his server, cannot believe that someone would go through so much effort in their out real life community to get a server going, truly a Legendary server own, sucks to see DDoS attacks and crappy host bring you down. Sucks to see amazing people, who go through amazing effort to run game server, I truly and honestly can say i am amazed how much effort you had put into the server, even knowingly that there is no money to be made hosting such a game. I am from Canada and cannot even find words for the persistence you had used in you home town to advertise your server. I enjoyed playing your server so much, me and my buds will truly miss you ownership of the server and will truly miss playing along your side. thanks for the amazing effort, and good luck in you further adventures, hope to see you around!

[QUOTE=duto;43806984]I used to hate on hfb nitrous fpsplayersand multiplay since I too thought that they were shit because they could not handle DDoS attacks. Then I looked into the cost of protection and holy shit is it expensive. If you are getting 10gbps attacks like they say its going to cost them over $700/mo for a single Ip in most locations for 20gbps protection. Heck the atlanta area (where I am) DDoS protection costs over 5k for that amount. Im not sure where your server was before but yeah, its expensive man.[/QUOTE] If you can't handle providing the protection, then don't offer it. Nor allow me to pay for it, especially since you can't handle it. That's a joke.

[QUOTE=duto;43806984]I used to hate on hfb nitrous fpsplayersand multiplay since I too thought that they were shit because they could not handle DDoS attacks. Then I looked into the cost of protection and holy shit is it expensive. If you are getting 10gbps attacks like they say its going to cost them over $700/mo for a single Ip in most locations for 20gbps protection. Heck the atlanta area (where I am) DDoS protection costs over 5k for that amount. Im not sure where your server was before but yeah, its expensive man.[/QUOTE] Thats a little big, i pay for a 16gb ram with an i7 processor dedibox, with about 10gbps ddos protection for about $60 a month...

[QUOTE=Blucifer;43807013]If you can't handle providing the protection, then don't offer it. Nor allow me to pay for it, especially since you can't handle it. That's a joke.[/QUOTE] Have you paid for the protection? If so how much did they charge, if its anything less then like $100/mo then its most likely going to be around 10gbps protection. [editline]6th February 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=MysticShoe;43807027]Thats a little big, i pay for a 16gb ram with an i7 processor dedibox, with about 10gbps ddos protection for about $60 a month...[/QUOTE] Where? I know for a fact no provider in the US has that pricing.

[QUOTE=duto;43807054]Have you paid for the protection? If so how much did they charge, if its anything less then like $100/mo then its most likely going to be around 10gbps protection. [editline]6th February 2014[/editline] Where? I know for a fact no provider in the US has that pricing.[/QUOTE] company is called OVH, server is based in Canada, just about at the border, dont think they are offering the same server as of now, but ive been leasing the server for a year or 2 now here are their current offers [url]http://www.soyoustart.com/ca/en/offers.xml[/url]

[QUOTE=MysticShoe;43807090]company is called OVH, server is based in Canada, just about at the border, dont think they are offering the same server as of now, but ive been leasing the server for a year or 2 now here are their current offers [url]http://www.soyoustart.com/ca/en/offers.xml[/url][/QUOTE] Not the US but yes close, Pretty sure hfb talked about having free ddos protection there already on reddit and here. EDIT Yeah here is their wording [QUOTE]We offer Quebec DDoS protected servers Free of Charge and any clients are welcome to move there a simple ticket can be submitted and we will be happy to move a client there.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=duto;43807103]Not the US but yes close, Pretty sure hfb talked about having free ddos protection there already on reddit and here. EDIT Yeah here is their wording[/QUOTE] [url]http://gyazo.com/45dcb47d5629604e15df2487ae65c186[/url] server is basically in the US, never said it was US either, and so what you have to submit a ticket to get ddos protection, or they provide you with a interface which allows you to put you server on mitigation. I've hosted gameserver like Minecraft, which also has a lot of ddosing problems and the server has held up to many ddos attacks, only way i found out about them is when i got an email letting me know.

Is this a provider that generally hosts servers for games or websites? Their protection might be designed for keeping a website online during an attack, not for providing an ongoing fast connection during an attack

Spending $2000 and a lot more? It's better for HFB to blacklist the DDoSer ip range, [U]find the provider and send an email or a notice to the provider about the illegal activity[/U]. At least that's what I did on my dedicated server. Better to lose some people on that ip range than lose everything you have. kids if you don't know the underlined statement, keep away from commenting on my post.

Same thing happened to me! Even did a reddit post [url]http://www.reddit.com/r/playrust/comments/1wz6wy/possible_server_provider_scam_beware/[/url]

[QUOTE=anazhd;43807157]Spending $2000 and a lot more? It's better for HFB to blacklist the DDoSer ip range, [U]find the provider and send an email or a notice to the provider about the illegal activity[/U]. At least that's what I did on my dedicated server. Better to lose some people on that ip range than lose everything you have. kids if you don't know the underlined statement, keep away from commenting on my post.[/QUOTE] I also thought the same thing lol, Then my minecraft dediserver at reliablesite got ddos'd and these were the attack logs [url]http://pastebin.com/zhMK3cMu[/url]

seriously, what do you expect for the price we pay ($20/month)? i rent one at fps for little over a month, i wanted change but idk the only gsp who seems good is bmrf but they never have available servers even the price is almost twice. i don't think i'll keep paying for my rust server too. given the price of the game, i already had loads of fun with it, so i guess it's time to put it aside for some time until this gsp joke has an end. idk if garry is so dumb that doesn't notice that, if he doesn't care because who wanna rent a server already paid for the game, or if these gsp are giving him money in order to don't have more competition. he should go public and tell why these companies were selected, why he doesn't allow other companies to host the game. why he doesn't do anything if ppl are screaming that their service sucks?

DDoS protection was originally designed for websites, it was used to keep the site up even unter a DDoS attack, the loading times might be a bit longer, but at least you could still use the site. Gameserver DDoS protection is almost pointless, because unlike a website, that "loading lag" translates into the infamous "Rubber-banding" effects, essentially make the game worse to play. Ive run plenty of servers on plenty of games, experienced all kinds of DDoS attacks, and the one thing i notice is that no matter how good the protection is, it still ends up lagging the server. As a fellow server/community owner i would like to offer a bit of advice, If your willing to put your own money down to provide a server for free to others, always expect it to be attacked at some point, learn to accept that fact and be able to get over it and move on, rebuild and continue. The way i did this was simply form some way of communication to regular members of the server/community, forums, voip, social media, etc. Whatever works for you and is simple to use for your members. That way in case your server does go down, those regulars will know whats going on and can stay informed to possible IP changes, etc. I always say, its better to start with a few members than to start from scratch. TL;DR DDoS Protection for Gameservers is almost useless, and if your server/community has to change IP, use an external form of communication to inform regular members of IP changes.

DDoS protection is a weird thing. The more you mitigate it, the more the ddosers will buy zombies or stresser shells from hackforums. You just can't really win.

I'm in the exact same boat as the OP, HFB server, became popular to the point we were #1 during peak US times in population. Today and yesterday we've been receiving attacks... server has been down roughly 11 hours today. I had a ticket open for over 24 hours with no response @ HFB, I opened ANOTHER ticket and finally got a response.. my other one is still sitting there with no response so who knows how their ticket system works. After contacting all the approved providers it seems these are the closest you can get for central US hosting with protection: ---- [B]BMRF[/B] - Wait list, selective of clients. I'm not sure on how large the attacks they can handle are. New York location. Waiting on a quote and more information. [B]Multiplay[/B] - Washington, DC... not sure on how much they can handle yet, waiting for another reply to my sales inquiry. They also have San Jose and Seattle. [B]PlayRust.EU [/B]- Using LSN in TX, two options for 10Gbps and 20Gpbs, would be perfect if it wasn't TX as we have a lot of Canadian \ East coast players. Waiting to hear back if they have another US location but I don't think they do. Other info: ---- [B]Nitrous Networks[/B] - Up to 1.5Gbit protection, unfortunately not enough for most attacks [B]HFB Hosting[/B] - No DDoS by default, you can pay $50 for Texas which I think is @ LSN like PlayRust.Eu or move to Canada (I think OVH?) for free. [B]FPSPlayers[/B] - No DDoS protection, no option as of yet for it. Also some of their IPs I checked were SWIPed to HFB which is odd. [B]RustGameServers.com[/B] - No protection, have a secondary server with them that maxes out at 10 players... over 80 hours of downtime in 3 weeks. If anyone has any other information please post... when I hear back from BMRF, Multiplay, and PlayRust, I'll update this. I'd definitely have to give HFB a thumbs down though, it might not be possible to run a popular server right now in the current state of things but you definitely won't be doing it at HFB either way.

What is the motivation behind the DDoS attacks? Hatred? Anger? Are people born nasty? I know that having your game interrupted is low on the scale of World problems, but it is sad that there are those out there that want to cause unpleasantness. I took took a liking to a server and it now suffers from constant rubberbanding making Rust unplayable. Shame really. Was beginning to get to know the folks well.

[QUOTE=ArmtageShanks;43807776]What is the motivation behind the DDoS attacks? Hatred? Anger? Are people born nasty? I know that having your game interrupted is low on the scale of World problems, but it is sad that there are those out there that want to cause unpleasantness. I took took a liking to a server and it now suffers from constant rubberbanding making Rust unplayable. Shame really. Was beginning to get to know the folks well.[/QUOTE] Sounds like someone got mad because he is either a decent admin, or a ban-happy one, which in either way the guy DDoSing is stupid. Don't take your server down! Need good servers for this game with good admins! Sorry for the bad shit to happen, but usually the result in being the 'good' guy is more hate then the 'bad' guy. I've learned this in many of things, and rust it is the same, i became a target since I helped noobs in my home server, it tis sad.

If this has been mentioned already, I apologize (I only skimmed through the comments), but the alleged "DDoSing" of HFB based Rust servers is nowhere near isolated to you. The owner of Rusty Rust Rust (A server of which the plug was pulled due to various reasons) was subjected to such 'attacks', as have been several other forum users. Some believe it is a huge scam to squeeze money out of people, and I'm inclined to believe them, based off what I've both read and witnessed. It seems that paying for their DDoS protection does not guarantee your server will stay up. That sort of filth should result in a refund. I feel rather dirty; I actually promoted them before shit turned sour to people looking for hosting solutions.

What I don't understand is why enforcement over DDoSing is not more serious. If someone is denying you your ability to use a server that you're paying money for, it's essentially a form of theft/vandalism. Granted, I don't know much about it maybe it's too difficult to track them, but the only way to get DDoSing to stop is to really enforce it's illegality.

[QUOTE=DrFreenote;43807828]If this has been mentioned already, I apologize (I only skimmed through the comments), but the alleged "DDoSing" of HFB based Rust servers is nowhere near isolated to you. The owner of Rusty Rust Rust (A server of which the plug was pulled due to various reasons) was subjected to such 'attacks', as have been several other forum users. Some believe it is a huge scam to squeeze money out of people, and I'm inclined to believe them, based off what I've both read and witnessed. It seems that paying for their DDoS protection does not guarantee your server will stay up. That sort of filth should result in a refund. I feel rather dirty; I actually promoted them before shit turned sour to people looking for hosting solutions.[/QUOTE] Oh god, as much as I hated all the providers before I discovered the true cost of ddos protection and well the way it actually works when my minecraft dediserver was ddos'd. That reddit post had to be the most stupid thing I have ever read, simply due to the fact that hfb never made anyone pay a dime or even from what i see terminated anyone for ddos attacks. Hell if i was hfb and some one was getting ddosd over and over i would just terminate them as they are messing up other peoples server. Also from what i read they never even made anyone move that was getting dosd over and over so how does that logic even make sense. From the reddit post this is what people were suggesting. And what you belive hfb dos's client client complains server is down hfb says yeah your server was ddos'd client asks about ddos protection hfb says they dont have any but they can move for free to canada, move to dallas for $50 or stay on server client says no i dont want to move hfb continues to ddos client causing all servers to go down tons of tickets to be made and angry people and never forces the client to do anything?.............. That makes no sense at all, just saying.

[QUOTE=Buttermuffin;43807879]What I don't understand is why enforcement over DDoSing is not more serious. If someone is denying you your ability to use a server that you're paying money for, it's essentially a form of theft/vandalism. Granted, I don't know much about it maybe it's too difficult to track them, but the only way to get DDoSing to stop is to really enforce it's illegality.[/QUOTE] That's very hard to do because tracking a DDoS back to its roots is tougher then it seems. Unless the script kiddy doing it is very dumb, which could be the c ase since they're just a kid with a ddos program they bought off a forum.

AHAHAHA, oh man. I am not laughing at the issues you are having, more so that a bunch of other people had this same issue and plethora of other ones. I'm honestly surprised you haven't been bombarded by the HFB fanboy brigrade trying to discredit you. refer to [URL="http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1358921"]THIS[/URL] post I made a couple days ago. HFB sucks for hosting, so I wouldn't shut your server down due to a bunch of incompetent server owners. Just get new hosting. After moving my hosting away from them I have had zero issues. Wish you the best of luck with your server and I hope to see you continuing on after dropping them!

I feel bad for your man, let me know when your server comes back up so I can join!

[QUOTE=Bigstivie;43808442]I feel bad for your man, let me know when your server comes back up so I can join![/QUOTE] Same here OP. Sound like a good admin.