Revamped Improvised Gun System - Rust

Since the game is going through such a large overhaul, the time for such a suggestion couldn't be better. Before I begin, I would like to say how much I love the current guns in the game, and admire the artists creations and their investment in their work. Great job guys, and I can't wait to see your work in the future. So, a big part of Rust is crafting your way up. Creating tools to increase your odds of survival. Arguably the most valuable "tool" in the game is a gun. These are often handmade, created using the minimal resources the player is given. The slight issue I find here, is despite the fact that these are homemade weapons, they are completely identical, and often take away any excitement crafting your own firearm would grant you. I propose a system which will allow you to craft your own, personal weapon, piece by piece. Ideally, this system will divide weapons into three categories, large guns, medium guns and small guns, and their crafting will require many parts, including: barrel, under barrel, magazine, grip, receiver (perhaps the upper and class can be combined for simplicity's sake), and stock. All these sections could have a variety of options, using different materials/styles, realistically, perhaps 5 for each (although I am not a developer, so take these numbers lightly). [IMG]http://kk.org/streetuse-mt/machine%20gun.jpg[/IMG] Each would offer its own function and attributes, as well as simple ways to decorate each (such as paint and etchings). This would not only give you a greater sense of ownership and attachment to your weapon, but it will also make the process of creating a firearm a much more realistic, time consuming and rewarding process. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/IYf0jfp.png?1[/IMG] With this system, you will no longer instantly dismiss a gun, because it is the same as the other 20 pipe shotguns you have, but you will investigate it, perhaps try it out, and maybe even begin obtaining a collection of firearms, all well-suited to different situations. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/cjVe2xw.jpg?1[/IMG] It is a suggestion worth considering, and would add another layer of quality to an already great game, I know it could be very time consuming, but the payoff would be amazing. Please think about the potential, and leave your thoughts or suggestions below.

Being able to cobble together an improvised firearm from parts on hand at the moment, resulting in a unique and functional (yet less than ideal) weapon seems so [I]very[/I] Rust I just have to support this idea. I know the developers originally considered something along these lines as there are "Weapon Parts" and "Armor Parts" items (I believe Weapon Parts 1 - 7 or something like that). I'm not sure if the idea was discarded entirely or shelved for later development but I like the idea. It also ties in with Garry's thoughts on allowing custom loads in magazines (i.e. hollow point, normal bullet, tracer, hollow point, tracer, tracer, hollow point, normal bullet)... Custom oddities like this would really make the game feel more "real" and immediate and less scripted and cookie cutter (not that Rust is very scripted or cookie cutter, but the guns do feel pretty much "the same" after awhile).

Glad to hear the support! I definitely agree, it almost feels like a necessary mechanic, or at the least a missed opportunity. Although I am not sure how intense the process of implementing such a system would be, I believe it should at the least be considered. It would fit perfectly.

Sounds a bit like gun porn to me. I wouldn't object to the idea, but personally speaking, I'm not interested in being 'attached' to pixelated weapons - I just want them to do their intended job in the game. But I agree that having to piece the more advanced weapons together, rather than crafting them in one click, would be a useful game dynamic in terms of adding balance to firearms, which are currently over-dominant. I also think that melee weapons should be buffed and made more lethal, but that's another discussion.

[QUOTE=SKOL;44881246]Sounds a bit like gun porn to me. I wouldn't object to the idea, but personally speaking, I'm not interested in being 'attached' to pixelated weapons - I just want them to do their intended job in the game. But I agree that having to piece the more advanced weapons together, rather than crafting them in one click, would be a useful game dynamic in terms of adding balance to firearms, which are currently over-dominant. I also think that melee weapons should be buffed and made more lethal, but that's another discussion.[/QUOTE] Perhaps a greater sense of ownership would have be a better term, producing a weapon that works exceptionally well compared to others would give me a little pride. It has a function beyond ascetics and could potentially give players an edge for know hot to build the better gun. Thanks for the feedback, and I also agree with buffing melee weapons, perhaps you should expand on that and make a thread!

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;44881001]. Although I am not sure how intense the process of implementing such a system would be, I believe it should at the least be considered. It would fit perfectly.[/QUOTE] we could have a huge upgrade tree for every basic weapon, like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I'm pretty attached to my modded AK-74, but I don't get to use it to advance the game cause I only have 60 rounds ATM

I think this would be great if they worked off of what Dead Space 3 used and make it a little more primitive. While Lightning guns would be Bad-ass, I don't think I could create one in my garage (unless I had a blueprint on how to make a reliable, non-backfiring, and concentrated Tesla Coil. Here's a diagram I whipped up to explain how the system could work. It's a little messy, but if you're used to the gun freedom Dead Space 3 offers, you should catch on. [URL]imgur.com/4JoRoSJ.png[/URL] Picture is rather large. Just zoom in and view through there. I didn't want to take up half the post with the picture's size.

[QUOTE=JasonChang55;44883233]I think this would be great if they worked off of what Dead Space 3 used and make it a little more primitive. While Lightning guns would be Bad-ass, I don't think I could create one in my garage (unless I had a blueprint on how to make a reliable, non-backfiring, and concentrated Tesla Coil. Here's a diagram I whipped up to explain how the system could work. It's a little messy, but if you're used to the gun freedom Dead Space 3 offers, you should catch on. [URL]imgur.com/4JoRoSJ.png[/URL] Picture is rather large. Just zoom in and view through there. I didn't want to take up half the post with the picture's size.[/QUOTE] That is absolutely awesome! That is definitely a good reference and I'm surprised I didn't think of that. If you cleaned it up a bit it would be a fantastic demonstration of how this could work, I might have to put it in the OP. [editline]22nd May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=mihai_pruna;44883187]we could have a huge upgrade tree for every basic weapon, like in S.T.A.L.K.E.R. I'm pretty attached to my modded AK-74, but I don't get to use it to advance the game cause I only have 60 rounds ATM[/QUOTE] An interesting alternative, mechanically, both systems would do the same thing. Although it wouldn't feel like a completely new gun. But I would rather have this than what we have now.

I like the idea! Although i can clearly imagine myself pimping a gun for 3 hrs and then get shot in 10 seconds and lose it ... :)

love the look of those weapons, I think a simple part system would be fantastic- all craft able or findable of course. Same for melee weapons.

The rust submission site does list like gunparts1 as someone mentioned. Further suggestion for these? Each is individual in its accuracy as well. So you have to learn what each gun acts like. Does it hace a bit of recoil to the right? Does it hit its target a little up from its iron sights? You wont be able to pick up any weapon and have immediate accuracy, you will have to learn it. Kinda blends into the personal posession of these weapons (and more realistic to boot). BTW Shouldn't this be in suggestions?

I really hope they introduce this, a game called 'loudout' kind of has this feature in that you make your own weapon which gives a different edge to fps, this would really help rust and I hope garry adds it to the game

Still keep military grade stuff, just make it rare and uncraftable etc.

I would think a Borderlands-style system would be great. So you divide guns into different categories. Let's say: * Pistols * Combat Rifles (fire bursts of bullets) * Assault Rifles * Shotguns * Sniper Rifles Each category has one or more "receivers" or "bases". So you might one day find an LMG base (assault rifle), or you might find a Revolver base (pistol). Then each receiver has things you can add to it which will affect the stats of the weapon: Stock, Barrel, Magazine/Clip, Sight/Scope, Accessory (most weapons accept these slots, except pistols which do not accept stocks) So each of the bases has a range of starting stats. And then the parts you add to them will further modify those stats. In the end, you end up with a highly customized weapon which works differently from Bandit Joe's weapon from across the way. And yes, you should be able to name your weapon after you craft it :) Imagine killing someone and finding a weapon in their backpack named "The Reaper". It would be neat if you could even see how many kills that player achieved with the weapon, as if they scratched tally marks in the side of it...

I hope something like this would also extend to non-lethal weapons. Maybe something like a rudimentary tazer or a homemade can of pepper spray?

I guess one complexity of trying to make this system actually work in-game would be the added strain on the CPU to properly render each gun part for each gun for each player. Right now the host server just needs to tell your local CPU that "player D has an M4" and then your local CPU knows what to do with that. Under this system the host server would need to tell your local CPU that "Player D has a wooden grip, metal folding stock, grade B barrel with vents, custom iron site rail, and flash suppressor" For one player that's not a problem. For 30 players within your render distance I could see that becoming a problem, both for the host, and for your local CPU. Don't get me wrong-- I love the idea... but thinking like a Dev, I can see a few obstacles to a smooth implementation.

[QUOTE=Dionysus9;44888286]I guess one complexity of trying to make this system actually work in-game would be the added strain on the CPU to properly render each gun part for each gun for each player. Right now the host server just needs to tell your local CPU that "player D has an M4" and then your local CPU knows what to do with that. Under this system the host server would need to tell your local CPU that "Player D has a wooden grip, metal folding stock, grade B barrel with vents, custom iron site rail, and flash suppressor" For one player that's not a problem. For 30 players within your render distance I could see that becoming a problem, both for the host, and for your local CPU. Don't get me wrong-- I love the idea... but thinking like a Dev, I can see a few obstacles to a smooth implementation.[/QUOTE] I'd do bitmasking if I were developing it. So let's say a gun is defined by Receiver, Stock, Barrel, Magazine, Attachment, and Sight/Scope If we impose a maximum limit of 16 possible options for each of those (which is plenty - 16 receivers x 16 stocks x 16 barrels x 16 magazines results in over 65,000 combinations - and that's not even counting attachments and sights) Given that, we can fit each one of those into a nibble (4 bits, half a byte) which has 16 possible values. Since a nibble is half a byte, we can fit two nibbles per byte. Given an 32-bit integer (4 bytes), we can fit up to 8 nibbles. So I'd do it like this (where each letter is a nibble - every two letters is a full byte) AB CD EF GH A - Receiver B - Stock C - Barrel D - Magazine E - Attachment F - Sight/Scope That still gives us a full byte left over in which to encode whatever we want. Therefore, we can encode the full spec of a weapon into a single 32-bit integer value. That's easily small enough for your network to handle (significantly smaller than the packets which encodes your character movement, I'm willing to bet) Or, hell, we could even add another full integer if we wanted, it would still be an incredibly small message (only 16 bytes) Bitmasks are wonderful things.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;44880452]Since the game is going through such a large overhaul, the time for such a suggestion couldn't be better. Before I begin, I would like to say how much I love the current guns in the game, and admire the artists creations and their investment in their work. Great job guys, and I can't wait to see your work in the future. It is a suggestion worth considering, and would add another layer of quality to an already great game, I know it could be very time consuming, but the payoff would be amazing. Please think about the potential, and leave your thoughts or suggestions below.[/QUOTE] this has been posted so many times, its getting to be a joke

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;44883329]That is absolutely awesome! That is definitely a good reference and I'm surprised I didn't think of that. If you cleaned it up a bit it would be a fantastic demonstration of how this could work, I might have to put it in the OP.[/QUOTE] Alright I fixed it up and added some details. Does this work better? [URL]imgur.com/eQRmQou.png[/URL]

[QUOTE=ExplosiveCheese;44888026]I hope something like this would also extend to non-lethal weapons. Maybe something like a rudimentary tazer or a homemade can of pepper spray?[/QUOTE] Playing around with different kinds of projectiles would be awesome, perhaps chemicals or even the option to make a makeshift flamethrower, as ridiculous as that sounds. A tazer would be a great addition to the game in my opinion. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=KillaMaaki;44887128]I would think a Borderlands-style system would be great. So you divide guns into different categories. Let's say: * Pistols * Combat Rifles (fire bursts of bullets) * Assault Rifles * Shotguns * Sniper Rifles Each category has one or more "receivers" or "bases". So you might one day find an LMG base (assault rifle), or you might find a Revolver base (pistol). Then each receiver has things you can add to it which will affect the stats of the weapon: Stock, Barrel, Magazine/Clip, Sight/Scope, Accessory (most weapons accept these slots, except pistols which do not accept stocks) So each of the bases has a range of starting stats. And then the parts you add to them will further modify those stats. In the end, you end up with a highly customized weapon which works differently from Bandit Joe's weapon from across the way. And yes, you should be able to name your weapon after you craft it :) Imagine killing someone and finding a weapon in their backpack named "The Reaper". It would be neat if you could even see how many kills that player achieved with the weapon, as if they scratched tally marks in the side of it...[/QUOTE] This is another good idea, although I am leaning more towards the idea of a completely making your own gun from the ground up, rather than modifications, although I am for anything that will add variety to the homemade guns because its very strange how they seem to carry a standard by which everyone follows.

[QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;44903524]Playing around with different kinds of projectiles would be awesome, perhaps chemicals or even the option to make a makeshift flamethrower, as ridiculous as that sounds. A tazer would be a great addition to the game in my opinion. [/QUOTE] Aerosol spray can containing Alcohol based liquid (Axe/Lynx, Hairspray, etc) + Lighter = Makeshift flamethrower. Water gun with modified parts so the gas doesn't eat the plastic + lighter taped at end = VERY DEADLY Flamethrower. Bleach + Pissing into a bottle = Mustard Gas. In low doses it's painful but not that lethal. Again, if we had mortars like my first two post suggests, Mustard gas would be feasible. Not sure how a bunch of average joes would be able to make a bomb explode mid air, but Gas + Styrofoam = Napalm. Light that shit on fire and you are going to have trouble taking it off. Etch a Skethes have thermite. Doubt a deserted island would have a factory of etch a sketches but hey I'm sure it could be in a general factory, with random-map-generation... On the topic of stuff in breaking bad that would be practical to use but inpractical to find, Mercury Fulminate is something you can use as an explosive, but not enough in one little baggie to blow up an entire god-damn floor of a methhouse. Blu - Rays have laser readers in them that if wired correctly can pop balloons. I'm sure there could be some sort of blinding effect used for this, right? A big ass battery, some wire, and a metal end that can stab or attach directly on someone's skin, along with a rubber grip and a switch to turn it on or off and you have a homemade taser. Take a beer bottle, put gasoline in it, take a rag, and douse the end in oil and light it and you have a molotov cocktail. Those have some practical uses that wouldn't exactly kill the enemy but definitely fuck up their day. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Unemphatic;44888429]this has been posted so many times, its getting to be a joke[/QUOTE] This is the only one that has actual examples and information that could prove it to work, I could be wrong about that, but I agree the amount of these topics are off the chart. This one is the only time i've seen people get into detail about rendering problems in a network but then disprove it. This is the only time people have given diagrams (That could just be me but I haven't came across any diagrams on how guns could be made in a game like described so I made my own) [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=shoshinkan;44885748]Still keep military grade stuff, just make it rare and uncraftable etc.[/QUOTE] I agree, there should be stock weapons like M4 and AK47's but they have perfect aim and high damage but the drawback is they are rusted and whatnot, so you'd break em unless you repaired them. Then you have to worry about getting killed while running around with them. Like a group of guys who made cheap shortbows (Assuming my diagram is a game mechanic in this situation) could EASILY take down a guy in kevlar with a shiny AK47. I mean, I've seen groups of 5 with bows and hatchets and a couple pickaxes take down kevlar guys. I mean there's like 1 guy left but if you had a massive group of like 15 then kevlar and a shiny AK-47 wouldn't mean shit. Perhaps you can scavenge parts from the military guns to have boosts in your gun. Like taking the barrel from an M4 or something would increase velocity, taking the receiver would allow for a very reliable gun that wouldn't jam nearly as much. TL;DR If they allowed you to make your own guns, but kept in real, high grade guns, then that would be a good idea. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Beo;44884958]I like the idea! Although i can clearly imagine myself pimping a gun for 3 hrs and then get shot in 10 seconds and lose it ... :)[/QUOTE] That would be what would stop you from spending all your resources to make a high grade gun and putting defense aside to do it. The second you die you loose the gun so this hopefully would deter people from making an M4 grade gun when they are still trying to maintain a shack. [editline]25th May 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Daniel Munoz;44881366]Perhaps a greater sense of ownership would have be a better term, producing a weapon that works exceptionally well compared to others would give me a little pride. It has a function beyond ascetics and could potentially give players an edge for know hot to build the better gun. Thanks for the feedback, and I also agree with buffing melee weapons, perhaps you should expand on that and make a thread![/QUOTE] I would make a revolver and have it get shit stats but kill people with it after taking them down to size with a bigger gun, and call it the "bitch killer" so when people die they say they died from the "Bitch Killer" and then when they find and kill me, they take it and try to use it and get their ass kicked, and when they complain I state "You simply aren't meant to use the bitch killer like I am" I think a diagram should be made for melee weapons. I'll make one later.

I am most likely going to make a new thread based on some of the feedback i got, it will be more polished and thought out so if anyone wants to make a suggestions I would love to hear some more feedback. Thanks everyone!