So I've been watching experimental, logging in every week or two. Well I got busy with work and didn't log in for like 3 weeks. Well I logged in last night and decided that things are looking pretty good. So I decided to build a house and actually PLAY. Then i started building.. and noticing the building levels.
Have I missed something? or does Garry expect us to throw a rock on the mouse for 5 minutes for every fucking building panel? it takes forever...its not interesting.. like...wtf.
Next thing you know you'll have to collect charcoal out of the furnace 1 piece at a time.
BUT that being said, its possible that I missed something and there is a faster way of upgrading the walls... sooooooo yeah.
/endrant
yeah I too agree that sitting here at my computer, smacking a virtual wall for about an hour just so some naked asshole with a hatchet cant knock down my house and take my hours + worth of work is not what I would call fun.
But, I do like the idea of a building tier system, and that anything that can be built can be destroyed.
So, I guess its a trade off. It does help immensely to have more than one person hammering the walls, but like I said I agree that its repetitive and a somewhat flawed aspect of the *current* building system.
they made the walls look ugly, that's what you missed buddy.
Well I do like the multi tiered wall system..
but for the sake of all that is good in this world, make it so we have to go collect different resources or something.
I mean sure garry wants it to be "real"... but wtf.... who on their team thought this was a good idea?
At least when you are beating endlessly on trees and rocks you move around a little bit, you have to worry about people and animals..
but with the walls, quite literally I macro'd that shit and walked away... how is that fun?
Yeah, I'm not sold on it yet. I prefer the idea of crafting prefab walls out of materials like in legacy. There could be some middle ground though. An upgrade system where you are able to upgrade your current house, however, it'll never be as strong as making a new house with panels made completely out of stone or metal.
[QUOTE=Chekirge;46166396]they made the walls look ugly, that's what you missed buddy.[/QUOTE]
They are called placeholders.
[QUOTE=Warm;46167968]They are called placeholders.[/QUOTE]
yeah I know the game is in development, and I could care less about the textures..
but this never ending hold'n click is stoooopid
Also remember there will be higher grade tools metal hammer etc I bet they will build faster.
[QUOTE=kulan;46168242]Also remember there will be higher grade tools metal hammer etc I bet they will build faster.[/QUOTE]
That'd be nice, because as it is now.. IMO its not worth playing.
(I know its only building walls...but base building/protecting is easily 80% of the game right now. And its sooo unfun, I would rather go watch the voice with my wife then play "hammer the fucking wall till you drop"
It's fun to me but I'm into those Age of Empire type games. I get that players want to build and go but for me, building timers are an essential part of game balance. It encourages group play for large structures as a team can simultaneously hammer the same walls to speed the process. Of course, they don't have to be upgraded but because they're so weak right now, it needs upgrades. I just hope they give early levels a substantial buff to last way longer against attacks, then add a gradual decaying system as they previously mentioned on some devblogs.
Well I love age of empires, LOVE IT!...but I don't' remember endlessly clicking forever..
...but that being said, you are right it does encourage groups and teamwork. So I dunno..maybe I need friends
XD
[QUOTE=kulan;46168242]Also remember there will be higher grade tools metal hammer etc I bet they will build faster.[/QUOTE]
I'm kind of wondering if the intent is to bring people together. If doing it alone takes a (seemingly) long time, shouldn't I find someone willing to work with me? 2 people is twice as fast AND twice as safe....Until I shove a shotgun up your ass I guess. (unless you're into that)
I mean having upgraded hammers would be cool, but it should still take at least SOME time to build a wall, time/reward costs and all that bullshit.
[QUOTE=kulan;46168242]Also remember there will be higher grade tools metal hammer etc I bet they will build faster.[/QUOTE]
But when when when it be? On the next year? When fix light from torch and lantern? When fix sounds in new patch?
Still only promises, too bad ;(
[QUOTE=kpoIIIkaeHo7;46171475]But when when when it be? On the next year? When fix light from torch and lantern? When fix sounds in new patch?
Still only promises, too bad ;([/QUOTE]
When learn patience? You better buckle up kid, this game probably won't be finished for a while : /
[QUOTE=Dewm;46168945]
I would rather go watch the voice with my wife then play "hammer the fucking wall till you drop"[/QUOTE]
Pissing myself laughing, it's really bad if you'd rather go watch "The Voice" with your wife!
The idea is that you shouldn't be able to place a wall and just have it be pretty much indestructible from the start. It should take work to make your building near indestructible.
It takes half as long if you get a friend to help you.
Finding your friend on the current setup is the issue though. The time of day being client side at this point doesnt help when you describe a landmark when its still midnight on their end.
Yes I must say, it is killing any chance for me to get my friends interested in playing again as they simply cannot find me. The old map didn't have this problem. Could do with some kind of navigation system.
[QUOTE=IMF2000;46173112]Yes I must say, it is killing any chance for me to get my friends interested in playing again as they simply cannot find me. The old map didn't have this problem. Could do with some kind of navigation system.[/QUOTE]
Well, they're working on landmarks right now. Soon enough you'll have plenty point of references for a meet up.
It really doesn't take long to make a small lvl 6 house such as a single level 2x1 to keep valuable things safe in the current iteration. It is well worth the time investment, and would take a raider longer to knock down one panel (2+ hours) than for you to build the whole thing. Can't see a problem here. If you want a giant base at level 6 then buy your mates a beer and get them to work. Or just consider it a project you work on over time, and keep a small secure area for your valuables.
Finding your friends isn't rocket science even with the lack of very distinct landmarks. Find a high vantage point (both of you), work out directions using the sun, work out which biome you are in and their relative position, then find a place you can identify to meet.
[QUOTE=oXYnary;46172472]Finding your friend on the current setup is the issue though. The time of day being client side at this point doesnt help when you describe a landmark when its still midnight on their end.[/QUOTE]
Wasn't this fixed monthes ago?
[QUOTE=oXYnary;46172472]Finding your friend on the current setup is the issue though. The time of day being client side at this point doesnt help when you describe a landmark when its still midnight on their end.[/QUOTE]
To my knowledge the sun is working as intended. I found my friends on two separate occasions the other day in rust using just the sun.
[QUOTE=garry;46172393]The idea is that you shouldn't be able to place a wall and just have it be pretty much indestructible from the start. It should take work to make your building near indestructible.
It takes half as long if you get a friend to help you.[/QUOTE]
Yeah I suppose, I guess I'll have to give up rust though. All my buddies I played with are not "grinders" and the wall system will turn them off in a heart beat.
I'm in by no way a fan of legacies "FPS" theme, I don't mind a grind (sometimes) but just holding down 1 button for 3-5 minutes per panel is dumb. Least throw up some porn so I have something to do in the meanwhile.
If I wanted to grind on MMO levels, i'd go play a MMO
Oh well, dayZ is still fun. :/
[QUOTE=PhilipIchigo;46174236]Wasn't this fixed monthes ago?[/QUOTE]
Well if so something broke it again. I was on the standard branch last night. My friend was in the same room. His was showing like midnight when it was morning on mine. So yea, landmarks didnt help.
Should I report this as a bug? The server I was on wasn't modded.
[QUOTE=garry;46172393]The idea is that you shouldn't be able to place a wall and just have it be pretty much indestructible from the start.[/QUOTE]
Fair enough, so is this really the best way to do it?
I understand the push for realism, but large chunks of standing mostly motionless pressing one button over and over again isn't very appealing. Even less for casual players.
If you are going to use a system like this without the mindless one-button grind, you could make the toughness time-based. Walls that are freshly put up can be knocked down more easily, ones that have been there for a long time much harder, with a cap on how strong the wall will eventually be. Think of it as 'letting the glue dry' or something. Maybe still have a decent time requirement to create and place items, just have it so each particular type of wall 'levels up' naturally? Not sure.
I just know that my primary enjoyment in Rust has always been building bases. If that part is going to involve large amounts of time in a 'one button press, stand motionless' grind, I think it might be enough to push a fair amount of the player-base into looking towards other games.
[QUOTE=Skinnynaut;46176902]Fair enough, so is this really the best way to do it?
I understand the push for realism, but large chunks of standing mostly motionless pressing one button over and over again isn't very appealing. Even less for casual players.
If you are going to use a system like this without the mindless one-button grind, you could make the toughness time-based. Walls that are freshly put up can be knocked down more easily, ones that have been there for a long time much harder, with a cap on how strong the wall will eventually be. Think of it as 'letting the glue dry' or something. Maybe still have a decent time requirement to create and place items, just have it so each particular type of wall 'levels up' naturally? Not sure.
I just know that my primary enjoyment in Rust has always been building bases. If that part is going to involve large amounts of time in a 'one button press, stand motionless' grind, I think it might be enough to push a fair amount of the player-base into looking towards other games.[/QUOTE]
IMO, if they really wanted to go for "realism" instead of making the walls take longer to build.. they should require more/different resources.
So wood walls
level 1 takes 200 wood
level 2 takes 300 wood
level 3 takes 100 stone and 100 wood and turns it into concrete texture..
level 4 takes 150 stone 200 wood etc. etc...
But in real life, you don't build a wall stronger by pounding on the same nail for an extra 15 hits... thats stupid.
AND if they did it by resources, then you'd still get the "grind" that garry wants, but you would be running around..and have some risk.. not just standing in one place, holding one button.
I'm either waiting for my wall to be crafted (legacy), or I'm waiting for my wall to be upgraded while whacking it with a hammer.
You couldn't really do a whole lot while crafting building parts in legacy because of the slowed movement and sometimes the requirement to be next to a work bench. It's really no different than the new crafting system; just a different concept. Sure, I didn't have to hold down a button to upgrade my walls, but I still pretty much had to stand in one spot and wait. Usually I'd bring up a web browser while waiting for building parts to be crafted. Now I can't do that. Not really a big deal. And like Garry said, with a friend or two; it'll go much faster.
I'm still indifferent, but it's not a huge burden like some are making it out to be.
In fact, in the end it might even be faster with the new upgrading system. In legacy, if you wanted to upgrade your walls, you couldn't. You'd have to build an entirely new base. So you have your initial crafting time for the wood walls, but now you must start crafting all over again for your metal base. And then guess what? In your new base, you must craft new furnaces, doors, beds, sleeping bags, storage crates....by simply upgrading your house with a hammer, you don't have to worry about building new furnishings since your house will already have that stuff in it.
I just made myself move from indifferent on the new building system to loving it.
I've come up with a somewhat simple solution for tools being used to break walls down... a picture explains it best.
[URL=http://s18.photobucket.com/user/Rots_5/media/2014-10-0813_19_04-.jpg.html][IMG]http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b147/Rots_5/2014-10-0813_19_04-.jpg[/IMG][/URL]
Example; Assuming rock does 20 damage, against a tier 2 wall will do 6 damage per hit and not 20. Assuming a metal hatchet does 30 damage, against a tier 2 wall will do 19.5 damage per hit and not 30.
Bonus is that a rock is useless against higher tier walls.
But, a metal hatchet should do more damage to timber wall than a pickaxe, so maybe a bonus modifier could be added in. The pickaxe vs stonewall should get a bonus modifier as well perhaps.
[QUOTE=Dewm;46178185]IMO, if they really wanted to go for "realism" instead of making the walls take longer to build.. they should require more/different resources.
So wood walls
level 1 takes 200 wood
level 2 takes 300 wood
level 3 takes 100 stone and 100 wood and turns it into concrete texture..
level 4 takes 150 stone 200 wood etc. etc...
But in real life, you don't build a wall stronger by pounding on the same nail for an extra 15 hits... thats stupid.
AND if they did it by resources, then you'd still get the "grind" that garry wants, but you would be running around..and have some risk.. not just standing in one place, holding one button.[/QUOTE]
But it's already like this, no ?
We must already use stone/metal to upgrade our walls
[QUOTE=NoPr0n;46180179]But it's already like this, no ?
We must already use stone/metal to upgrade our walls[/QUOTE]
You are correct, and me being stupid forgot to put the this in there:
Walls build instantly.
So Once you go out and collect the proper amount of resources (which will still have the grind that garry wants) then you go back, and build/upgrade the walls instantly.
Now you could change the amount of resources needed, so instead of spending 20 seconds collecting resources, and 5 minutes pounding wood.
it would be 5 minutes collecting resources, and 5 seconds pounding wood.
That way you still get garrys grind, but instead of staring on one wall, and holding down one button, listening to one sound effect for 5 minutes.
you get to walk around and actually see new things, and have to be cautious. etc.. for 5 minutes.
Same amount of overall time per wall, but way more interesting. IMO
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