[Suggestion] Prevent raid griefing - Rust

Hello, i'm missing some sort of security in order to prevent raid griefing. Me and my friends are playing nearly 10 days on the London 2 Server, we used to gather BP's and stuff, made our little 4x4 Base fully upgraded to Metal (dam doe that took so long), placed everything perfectly for our likes. We were kinda happy, no raid for at least a full week, but yesterday we got raided. They took over the Cupboard, looted all our bodies and destroy our chests. I mean okay I'm fine with it nothing wrong here. [B][U]BUT[/U][/B] What they used todo afterwards, is just insane. They blocked every single door in our base with an upgraded Armored Blocks, we have no C4 nor can we craft C4 so our base is basically useless and broken. A week of playing destroy within a single raid. They made us all actually quit the official rust server because we don't waste to waste so much time again in order to get raided like that again. So how could we prevent this sort of griefing? 1. Suggestion: Cupboard Lock Timer There should be an option to disabled taking the ownership of that cupboard for XX amount of hours (Example: 12 Hours). If you activate the Cupboard lock, no one can get whitelisted nor clear the cupboard so you have to either destroy the cupboard or wait until the lock timer is over to take the ownership. This should prevent these type of griefs actually a little. 2. Suggestion: Cupboard Ownership cooldown If your auth yourself on a cupboard you should need to wait like 15 Minutes in order to actually get whitelisted. If you placed the cupboard for the first time, you simply have instant auth for the cupboard, but afterwards if you add a friend he needs to wait 15 minutes in order to get whitelisted. This should prevent fast griefing aswell because no raider is waiting 15 minutes in your base to place a block, atleast I think so. What do you guys think about these two suggestions?

They could just destroy your cupboards and place theirs so it won't make much of a difference .

i think we need to remember that raiding is not griefing. the cupboard was added to prevent players blocking your doors with their own building parts like they have done here, but should not prevent them building per se. in both of these suggestions, the solution as a raider wanting to grief you would be to destroy your cupboard, and place their own cupboard. then they can build, and you can't. people grief. it's just their nature sometimes. the solution is good admin presence, not cupboards IMO.

I don't mind a cupboard cooldown, for as long as the cupboard remains a part of the game (hopefully not that long). But like mrknifey said, once you've been raided it's no longer your base. You can take it back if you have the means, but imagine if instead of blocks they had simply put on a new metal door and code lock? With no C4 you'd be in the same boat... the result would be the same, your anger would be the same, your desire to ragequit the server would be the same. You don't know what they're doing with it... satellite base? Skull depository? Or did they put down blocks inside anyway? Some players just want to establish a zone of dominance so they don't have to compete with you for animals/rocks/barrels/drops, so they seal your house and salt your fields. It's dickish from your perspective, sure, but not for the sake of being a dick.

That's kind of the point of Rust: being a dick. Garry has said time and time and time again that Rust is all about not knowing whether or not the helpful guy next to you is going to murder you in your sleep or not. Risk is part of the game. The game shouldn't protect players from human nature. Introducing complex mechanics to do so just takes away from that built-in risk.

[QUOTE=Maximum Over;47450039]That's kind of the point of Rust: being a dick. Garry has said time and time and time again that Rust is all about not knowing whether or not the helpful guy next to you is going to murder you in your sleep or not. Risk is part of the game. The game shouldn't protect players from human nature. Introducing complex mechanics to do so just takes away from that built-in risk.[/QUOTE] "Being a dick" =/= introducing risk. Your comment would fit if someone was complaining about raiding in general, except it wasn't. It was the followup of blocking all the doors, rendering the structure unusable. I'm certainly no carebear, and the idea of getting raided is thrilling because of the constant risk of it, but I agree this is pretty lame gameplay, and adds nothing to the game, only detracts from it. By your logic, people should be able to block the outside of doors with walls also, like it used to be, since that's just "human nature".

Even if you had a timer like legacy does to sleeping bags that goes up each time, you could still break the cupboard as others stated. some sort of break/takeover timer is cool idea. what I do is focus on getting a room in my house to maximum security and that has the cupboard in it. I have one base where the cupboard is in an armored room with no doors deep in my house and I have a couple of other cupboards in the open inside the house as a decoy.

Rendering a base useless is a legit action imo. We sometimes do it to prevent ppl building and moving in too close to our spot :P And it's a way to steal a base as well if you find it good enough, so blocking doors is alright.

This is the exact reason I wanted demolish to stay in the game. Sure once you got raided the enemy could dismantle your building, but at least it wasn't a gigantic eyesore that now nobody can enter since the enemy didn't want to use the building, but couldn't fully destroy it.

I also put armored blocks in hallways against multiple doors. To be fair, I always give the bases fair terms of surrender before hand so there are no unpleasant surprises for them. If someone really wants their base back, pickaxes work very well to destroy any building part. If what is left in your building is worth it, I'd start breaking back in. Our group only uses c4 when time is of the essence, otherwise we all just hit pieces of the building.

blocking doorways [I]is[/I] legitimate gameplay like walling of rad sites, KOS etc, but unlike walling off the rad zones, this kind of behavior is intended to directly and negatively affect a player, not to passively obtain an advantage for yourself. it's probably one of those things that is best in moderation, and certainly not in the best interests of a server in terms of their population. it's probably also an argument for the re-implementation of manual building (ie hammer sim 2000) so raiders can't simply click build the entire bottom floor, but have to hang around and invest work as well as resources. when stability gets sorted out, and decay (hopefully) implemented, you wouldn't need destroy to deal with clutter. have it as an admin power, and if those two elements haven't brought it down, they can remove it themselves. also, by scrapping the no-build zone, other players can decide to invest the resources they would put into building a new base into clearing out the greifed ones for their own use instead; sometimes it might even be cheaper/faster than building fresh.

The simple solution is to make it so the person who places a building part can easily just take it down. Sure you might have to still build around or break some blocks/walls people left behind, but you can just demolish the parts you personally placed and fix it up/remove it.

[QUOTE=TreborS;47450180]"Being a dick" =/= introducing risk.[/quote] Except for the risk of someone being a dick. [quote]Your comment would fit if someone was complaining about raiding in general, except it wasn't.[/quote] He's complaining about griefing, which is what my comment was about. Couldn't possibly be a better fit. [quote]By your logic, people should be able to block the outside of doors with walls also, like it used to be, since that's just "human nature".[/QUOTE] "By (my) logic"? It's not "my logic", it's how the game works. Rust isn't here to protect your character from Bad People (tm). Sometimes you're going to get griefed, and that's that.

The cupboard was specifically designed to prevent building griefing and only building griefing, by establishing ownership in a system that does not have the concept of ownership. Walls don't know you placed them. Foundations don't know who you are. Locks don't know they belong to you. They belong to you because you keep control of the area (or, in the case of locks, the key or numeric code). The cupboard establishes an artificial zone of control over the area, because not enough defense options and building pieces have been implemented to make the intended (lack of) ownership mechanics balanced or fun at all. It was intended to be temporary and not a desired gameplay feature. Keep this in mind. More traps and shit will be coming, and raiding and building will be balanced. In short, if your cupboard's down, you [I]should[/I] be able to be walled in, at the moment. Protect your cupboard better. Rust isn't Minecraft. Building isn't sacred, it's a means to an end.

[QUOTE=elixwhitetail;47451816]The cupboard was specifically designed to prevent building griefing and only building griefing, by establishing ownership in a system that does not have the concept of ownership. Walls don't know you placed them. Foundations don't know who you are. Locks don't know they belong to you. They belong to you because you keep control of the area (or, in the case of locks, the key or numeric code). The cupboard establishes an artificial zone of control over the area, because not enough defense options and building pieces have been implemented to make the intended (lack of) ownership mechanics balanced or fun at all. It was intended to be temporary and not a desired gameplay feature. Keep this in mind. More traps and shit will be coming, and raiding and building will be balanced. In short, if your cupboard's down, you [I]should[/I] be able to be walled in, at the moment. Protect your cupboard better. Rust isn't Minecraft. Building isn't sacred, it's a means to an end.[/QUOTE] Agree with you on this. I will say that for now it'll be up to the admin to set a rule around this if need be. Personally, the community in the respective server should care about this. It litters the world with useless junk, which hinders performance. Completely understand if someone takes it over, because then it's being used. But rendering it useless is just silly. Glad to see that traps and barricades are coming quickly now. It'll bring a lot more balance.

I just want the cupboards gone...people will still get griefed and they make unlootable bases.

[QUOTE=MauriceG93;47448930] What they used todo afterwards, is just insane. They blocked every single door in our base with an upgraded Armored Blocks, we have no C4 nor can we craft C4 so our base is basically useless and broken. A week of playing destroy within a single raid. They made us all actually quit the official rust server because we don't waste to waste so much time again in order to get raided like that again. So how could we prevent this sort of griefing? [/QUOTE] This is not griefing. They took your base by force, they won, and then they're making whatever they want with their new base. How to prevent this ? make your cupboard harder to reach. Make multiple cupboards. Put your cupboard in a armored 1x1 in a way that if they use C4 to blow the door, they will blow the Cupboard. That way, they will have no way to get autorisation on any of your cupboards. They use 3 C4 to destroy the wall surrounding a cupboard ? there is 5 other cupboards. Or, you could make multiple small base and not put all your eggs in the same basket.

I feel your pain, BUT ... Garry has explicitly stated that "It's only your base as long as you control it. It doesn't matter that you built it. If someone else takes it over it's no longer your base". This is part of the gameplay mechanics. Learn and more on, (we've all been there). The trick is to protect your cupboards better. By all means build a cupboard on the ground floor when you are starting out, but once you are established, destroy that ground floor cupboard and create a new one on the 3rd or 4th floor, in a locked armoured room, with no stairs up to it, (so you have to have building rights first in order to be able to build up to it. This way if someone c4's their way into your base, they still can't get building rights.