Hi, my friend and fellow community owner has been trying to get up a serious roleplaying server. There is nothing wrong with the scripts, as they have been tested on multiple other servers and work fine, installed using the exact same method. However, due to the fact that the script doesn't seem to work with this server provider (which they say it does) my friend has tried to cancel his order and get a refund. However, the host is refusing to, and keeps pushing for compensation. Is this legal, or is my friend entitled to get a refund whenever he likes without compensations? Here's the log for those interested.
Chat info for clarification:
-Russian is the server host
-Dead Play is my friend
-The host site is [url]http://envision-host.com[/url]
-The "support package" is when you pay 20 bucks to contact them for server support (complete ripoff imo)
-According to the website, it's situated in the US so I'm guessing US laws apply here
[quote=Steam chat log] 2:58 PM - R u S s I a N: I guess you really did not care about us doing the best for you. No you will not get a refund, because I will make sure that your requests are installed tonight.
2:59 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ - Any good hosts?: Russian, I've been waiting for a working server for over a week.
2:59 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ - Any good hosts?: the time to do requests is well over. The service is not as it says.
2:59 PM - R u S s I a N: How old are you if I may ask?
3:00 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ - Any good hosts?: 17
3:00 PM - R u S s I a N: Do you go to high school or college^
3:00 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ - Any good hosts?: I am in my senior year of high-school.
3:02 PM - R u S s I a N: Okay, well let me explain you this. You paid 20 dollars for 3 support sesions. These will be available for a long time, until you uses them. So basically you do have the service, which wil be used tonight. As for your server, you paid 14 dollars, for something you will pay 2x more with other hosts. You have a working server, and I will make sure that your "CUSTOM" stuff will be installed tonight. I am 17 years old. I have COLLEGE (not high school), which means that I study around 50 hours a week. + I have envision host to take care off, and lately, you knew that we had issues, on which we were working hard. So basically, I spend around 100 hours a week, to work on my projet + studies. I have some free time tonight with Ovidiu, and we will take care of your request. Since you waited long enough.
[/quote]
I've been thinking that perhaps this falls under faulty goods or services, or misleading product, paying for what should be a free support session, what do you think FP? He'd like some advice before he takes action and is in a bad mood at the moment because of the server, which is why he's not posting this himself.
Get another host that isnt a peice of garbage
[QUOTE=werewolf0020;32640999]Get another host that isnt a peice of garbage[/QUOTE]
That's exactly what he's doing, but we want a refund on a product that we don't feel gave us the requested service, and not for them to fix the server.
[QUOTE=Ylsid;32641022]That's exactly what he's doing, but we want a refund on a product that we don't feel gave us the requested service, and not for them to fix the server.[/QUOTE]
It all depends on how long you've had the server with them etc. However judging from what he's saying he really wasn't a good choice to go with. Are you with a company or is this more person to person?
[url]http://envision-host.com/[/url]
that's the host.
The best you can do is attempt a paypal chargeback explaining the situation.
However he is technically in the right. He's providing a service which does work and you haven't mentioned any other issues bar a script installation. So the service he's providing is acceptable and is as advertised and the issue is regarding something being installed (what are you trying to install by the way?).
[B]Edit:[/B] They seem a little sketchy though.
[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;32641401]The best you can do is attempt a paypal chargeback explaining the situation.
However he is technically in the right. He's providing a service which does work and you haven't mentioned any other issues bar a script installation. So the service he's providing is acceptable and is as advertised and the issue is regarding something being installed (what are you trying to install by the way?).
[B]Edit:[/B] They seem a little sketchy though.[/QUOTE]
Hm, you do have a point, we were trying to install Phase Four, but it kept defaulting to sandbox every time. Worked on it for ten hours with another friend, and it refused to work, even though the exact same installation (took it through the steps properly, with mysql data installed correctly obviously) and it still refused to work.
Odds are they're refusing to let you upload .dll files and you'll need them to install the dll files for you. Very few hosts will let you straight upload certain files like that. Also Phase Four requires the OpenAura framework
As you're in the UK, you're covered by [url=http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/contents/made]the Distance Selling Act 2000[/url] (I'm not 100% sure this works for anything outside the EU, but I imagine there's an equivalent), and I'm fairly sure there's a clause in there about providing services as advertised. Continue to negotiate with the host (basically what teddi says) but if the service is not being provided as it was advertised to you or is not fit for purpose (basically the same thing) then you have a right to cancel (unsure on refund, though). Keep the pressure on them though.
[QUOTE=leach139;32641929]As you're in the UK, you're covered by [url=http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2000/2334/contents/made]the Distance Selling Act 2000[/url] (I'm not 100% sure this works for anything outside the EU, but I imagine there's an equivalent), and I'm fairly sure there's a clause in there about providing services as advertised. Continue to negotiate with the host (basically what teddi says) but if the service is not being provided as it was advertised to you or is not fit for purpose (basically the same thing) then you have a right to cancel (unsure on refund, though). Keep the pressure on them though.[/QUOTE]
Will do, will do, thanks for the advice.
[b]Edit:[/b] Recent logs.
[quote=Logs]3:15 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ -Back from ER: there is no possible way to be refunded for the support sessions than?
3:16 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: No sir.
3:16 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ -Back from ER: Why is that?
3:17 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: You accepted a term of service when you ordered your server. Here is a line or two about Refunds: Refunds
Envision Hosting does not provide refunds, but can choose to an exception basis entirely at the discretion of Envision Hosting. It is not the responsibility of Envision Hosting to cancel your PayPal subscription(s) when your service(s) are canceled. If you do not cancel your PayPal subscription(s) upon canceling your service(s), any payment received will not be refunded.
3:17 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: Are you sure there is nothing I can do to keep you with us?
3:18 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: I am ready to double the number of your support sessions if you keep the server with us. (6)
3:18 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: Free installation for Open Aura and the other plugin.
3:21 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: You here?
3:22 PM - Đe₳Đ•₱Ⱡ₳¥ -Back from ER: I'm busy having my fiancee restitch my fingers from yesterday.
3:22 PM - Russian #Envision-Host.com: Well, let me know what you think about my deal.
[/quote]
I'm quite sure that the law stll applies under all circumstances, [i]even[/i] if you signed a contract to say they don't. I am personally beginning to doubt the legality of this company and the practices.
I thought that you could break a contract if it's breaking the law, in any circumstances? Atleast, that's what they told me.
[QUOTE=Cyberuben;32657020]I thought that you could break a contract if it's breaking the law, in any circumstances? Atleast, that's what they told me.[/QUOTE]
Yeah, law comes over any policies that attempt to remove you of your legal rights regardless.
If the service is really that poor, drop dealing with support (because they're clearly a waste of your time), cancel the PayPal recurring subscription (do this ASAP), and open a PayPal Dispute on the latest transaction. Go in-depth, and you'll be allowed to escalate after a week (also post their seller responses so we can all laugh). I wouldn't class that term regarding refunds at all, most companies at least have a clause saying "if we fuck up bigtime or uptime drops below X%, we'll refund you Y".
Also, could you post the full ToS on Pastebin or something? Their site doesn't make it clear (which is another falling down).
[url]http://envision-host.com/tos.html[/url]
It's only shown on their registration page.
[img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3566/knipselvv.png[/img]
Why the typo? I think if they were so professional they wouldn't have 'exemple', instead of 'example'.
Second: Sourcebans 5 USD monthly? Why that?
[QUOTE=Cyberuben;32665859][img]http://img88.imageshack.us/img88/3566/knipselvv.png[/img]
Why the typo? I think if they were so professional they wouldn't have 'exemple', instead of 'example'.
Second: Sourcebans 5 USD monthly? Why that?[/QUOTE]
Since they think their costumers are the dumbest on earth
[QUOTE=Confuzzed Otto;32666042]Since they think their costumers are the dumbest on earth[/QUOTE]
Yes... Indeed.
Also: Why mw2.envision-host.com, while there are no servers for MW2 / they can't offer them? Another fail.
Effectively their ToS (like all companies) is there to cover their arse in a wide variety of cases. It's suicide to run a business and not have something there to try and prevent too much damage occuring.
The fact of the matter is that they're trying to keep you over a barrel via their ToS which is not technically a legal contract. Depending on the country they're based in (which appears to be the USA, although they've paid for private WHOIS details) they still have to follow what laws there are. However I'm no lawyer and I don't live in the USA so I can't give you much more information on that.
However as I said, if the server they have provided is in working order and has no issues you don't really have a claim. They're selling standard servers and it's up to you to customize it. If the customization doesn't work they're not at fault. Sure it'd be nice of them to honour a refund in this case but they have no obligation to do so.
My suggestion is to cancel any recurring payments you have with them and swap host. The money (dependant on the amount) you may just have to write off. However if the amount is greater than $25, I would say it's worth a shot opening a dispute via Paypal.
[QUOTE=Cyberuben;32666091]Yes... Indeed.
Also: Why mw2.envision-host.com, while there are no servers for MW2 / they can't offer them? Another fail.[/QUOTE]
Because they're using it as an example.
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