What Was So Great About the Old Roleplay Gamemodes? - Garry's Mod

I'm an experienced developer (8 years) that's newish to GMod (~1 year) and I'm currently working on a "roleplay" gamemode. Although I started working with DarkRP as a base, I'm considering dropping it altogether as there is a lot of hate towards it. Whenever I see people complaining about DarkRP and it's faults, they usually bring up older RP gamemodes and how great they were (such as PERP). My question is, what was so great about them? I haven't had a chance to play them and I want to make sure that my gamemode will be well received. Right now my current "recipe" for a good roleplay gamemode is the following: - Rather than having many specific jobs / classes / roles, have fewer with much greater purpose. This allows players to roleplay how they want, rather than being forced into a strict position. - Fun before realism / serious RP. If there's a specific way that [B]everything[/B] must be done, to keep it in line with real life, no one really has any freedom. - Automate the annoying but necessary. For example, rather than having to manually advert that you're stealing a car, using your lockpick on a vehicle does it automatically. - Encourage cooperation. Playing against other people is fun but usually it's more fun to play with other people. - Regulate the community. 90% of people who hate DarkRP seem to be against how easy it is to minge and how communities handle it. While this isn't RP specific, it's something that needs to happen. - Ensure that everything has a purpose. Something shouldn't exist just because it looks cool. If it doesn't have its place, it needs to go. - Have many, many tiered donation ranks and ensure that donators write the rules. They have more money IRL than non-donators and therefore have a much better understanding of the world. /s I really want to know more about the older gamemodes so I can continue working on my "recipe". I've had success creating additions to existing gamemodes in the past but now I want to create something from the ground up.

Can I ask why a developer of 8 years would want to work on another roleplay gamemode for the already saturated market of roleplay gamemodes that is gmod? "Have many, many tiered donation ranks and ensure that donators write the rules. They have more money IRL than non-donators and therefore have a much better understanding of the world." Holy shit what is this. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] Are you implying that people who spend more money on a server should have a hand in writing the rules? Last I checked, having a shitty job or using mommy's credit card did not make a person good at management or balancing game mechanics. You also imply that if someone is willing to spend a ton of money on a [b]gamemode for a game designed for young adults[/b] that they must be more well-rounded individuals; I'd argue that "normal" people would be far less likely to donate hundreds to a random roleplay server and pay for real life luxuries and pay bills. If anything, people who spend the most money on ingame servers probably have the least proper understanding of the real world. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] Also, as a developer, shouldn't you have unique ideas? All of these listings just seem to be common sense problems with roleplaying gamemodes, and introduce no actual content to make roleplaying in gmod good/fun.

[QUOTE]Have many, many tiered donation ranks and ensure that donators write the rules. [B]They have more money IRL than non-donators and therefore have a much better understanding of the world.[/B][/QUOTE] What the fuck is this

I was reading this thread and nodding my head, 'til the last little point struck me dead.

[QUOTE=circuitbawx;46714903]What the fuck is this[/QUOTE] Sarcasm, forgot that half the people on Facepunch who write shit like that are serious. [QUOTE=zerf;46714961]I was reading this thread and nodding my head, 'til the last little point struck me dead.[/QUOTE] See above. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=Loriborn;46714861]Can I ask why a developer of 8 years would want to work on another roleplay gamemode for the already saturated market of roleplay gamemodes that is gmod? "Have many, many tiered donation ranks and ensure that donators write the rules. They have more money IRL than non-donators and therefore have a much better understanding of the world." Holy shit what is this. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] Are you implying that people who spend more money on a server should have a hand in writing the rules? Last I checked, having a shitty job or using mommy's credit card did not make a person good at management or balancing game mechanics. You also imply that if someone is willing to spend a ton of money on a [b]gamemode for a game designed for young adults[/b] that they must be more well-rounded individuals; I'd argue that "normal" people would be far less likely to donate hundreds to a random roleplay server and pay for real life luxuries and pay bills. If anything, people who spend the most money on ingame servers probably have the least proper understanding of the real world. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] Also, as a developer, shouldn't you have unique ideas? All of these listings just seem to be common sense problems with roleplaying gamemodes, and introduce no actual content to make roleplaying in gmod good/fun.[/QUOTE] I developer professionally and I enjoy coding on the side. Right now all of my side projects are business related (read: $$$) and I'd like a change of pace. As for that last point, it was sarcasm. I apologize for not making that more clear. Sometimes I forget that some people actually have that mentality. I also have mountains of ideas. The issue isn't with coming up with a theme, or original content. It's about making sure the underlying framework for the mechanics is sound.

[QUOTE=SirSavary;46715055]Sarcasm, forgot that half the people on Facepunch who write shit like that are serious. See above. [editline]14th December 2014[/editline] I developer professionally and I enjoy coding on the side. Right now all of my side projects are business related (read: $$$) and I'd like a change of pace. As for that last point, it was sarcasm. I apologize for not making that more clear. Sometimes I forget that some people actually have that mentality. I also have mountains of ideas. The issue isn't with coming up with a theme, or original content. It's about making sure the underlying framework for the mechanics is sound.[/QUOTE] If you're a professional developer, creating a roleplay framework from scratch should be no problem. Getting some actual high-quality frameworks instead of edits of existing code could do gmod some good instead of reusing old code written by hobbyists. (no offense intended to them of course) Honestly, if your ideas are unique/good then making a completely new RP framework from scratch is the best option. If you really just want to "reinvent the wheel" then obviously you don't need to do that, but at the same time, you'd also be offering nothing really beneficial to the community. If you want a relatively light framework that you can build off of and edit, assuming you know lua well, or have experience with similar syntax languages like C++, then you could easily make something that far surpasses PERP or DarkRP or Clockwork in terms of gameplay content. As for specifics of why people enjoy PERP/DarkRP, you can add me on Steam if you want a brief synopsis of why the gamemodes are popular.

[QUOTE=Loriborn;46715311]If you're a professional developer, creating a roleplay framework from scratch should be no problem. Getting some actual high-quality frameworks instead of edits of existing code could do gmod some good instead of reusing old code written by hobbyists. (no offense intended to them of course) Honestly, if your ideas are unique/good then making a completely new RP framework from scratch is the best option. If you really just want to "reinvent the wheel" then obviously you don't need to do that, but at the same time, you'd also be offering nothing really beneficial to the community. If you want a relatively light framework that you can build off of and edit, assuming you know lua well, or have experience with similar syntax languages like C++, then you could easily make something that far surpasses PERP or DarkRP or Clockwork in terms of gameplay content. As for specifics of why people enjoy PERP/DarkRP, you can add me on Steam if you want a brief synopsis of why the gamemodes are popular.[/QUOTE] I was considering building off of NutScript but I'm undecided at the moment. I'd love of synopsis of the gamemodes and attempted to add you but Steam is giving me an error whenever I try. Would you mind adding me instead?

[QUOTE=SirSavary;46715366]I was considering building off of NutScript but I'm undecided at the moment. I'd love of synopsis of the gamemodes and attempted to add you but Steam is giving me an error whenever I try. Would you mind adding me instead?[/QUOTE] I think you may have blocked me when I attempted to add you under a previous name a few seconds ago; check your blocked list.

Roleplay is only good when everyone is playing by the rules, using microphones to communicate. Youtube bringing 100's of people who cant read rules to rp servers ruin them. The 2007 - 2011 gmod community was the best.

I tried to tolerate roleplay for the longest time, but it's just so much garbage. Now I fuck around trying to code a Naval Warfare style server when all my coders keep vanishing. If you want to put your coding skills to good use, let me know, I've got a pretty interesting project.

I've been playing Gmod for a year or so, and I've gotten an okay perspective IMO of the problems with the RP gamemodes. Is yours going to be a serious RP base like Clockwork or Nutscript? Or is it going to be like DarkRP? or something in between? I'd like to contribute some suggestions.

[QUOTE]- Automate the annoying but necessary. For example, rather than having to manually[B] advert[/B] that you're stealing a car, using your lockpick on a vehicle does it automatically.[/QUOTE] If you're creating a roleplay gamemode, please use the advert system for what it's real meaning is [U](advertisements)[/U], and [B]use (/me)[/B] for [U]roleplaying purposes. [/U] This is just a lick of advice if you're heading towards more roleplay instead of DarkRP, which is possibly the lowest level of roleplay due to its playerbase.

[QUOTE=Jeremey Kingrey;46721113]If you're creating a roleplay gamemode, please use the advert system for what it's real meaning is [U](advertisements)[/U], and [B]use (/me)[/B] for [U]roleplaying purposes. [/U] This is just a lick of advice if you're heading towards more roleplay instead of DarkRP, which is possibly the lowest level of roleplay due to its playerbase.[/QUOTE] Yeah I understand, I was just using a more well know usage so people would know what I meant. [editline]15th December 2014[/editline] [QUOTE=overki11;46720984]I've been playing Gmod for a year or so, and I've gotten an okay perspective IMO of the problems with the RP gamemodes. Is yours going to be a serious RP base like Clockwork or Nutscript? Or is it going to be like DarkRP? or something in between? I'd like to contribute some suggestions.[/QUOTE] I'm not quite sure yet. I'm not even sure if I want to label it as an RP gamemode, to be honest. There's a lot of expectations that come with that branding. Really I just want things to be original and fun. I don't think you can name a gamemode "funplay" though. What my team and I are working with right now: - Large, custom map with well defined "zones" (i.e. forest, city, ocean) - Players have needs they need to fulfill to stay alive (i.e. hunger, thirst, sleep) - Players will need to co-operate to complete tasks - Everything is crafted from resources, which are gathered / collected - Very bright and cheery atmosphere (i.e. bright color palette across the map) - There is a "big brother"-like government, played by the AI / NPCs - Government is very cold and dictator like - Ultimately players have to survive against this government Worth mentioning that the reason behind a bright and cheery atmosphere is to make stuff like "your leg has gangrene" feel very jarring.

The fuck am I reading through out this thread. [quote]Right now my current "recipe" for a good roleplay gamemode is the following: - Rather than having many specific jobs / classes / roles, have fewer with much greater purpose. This allows players to roleplay how they want, rather than being forced into a strict position.[/quote] Fair enough. How do you intend on doing this though? [quote]- Fun before realism / serious RP. If there's a specific way that everything must be done, to keep it in line with real life, no one really has any freedom.[/quote] No one has freedom in any RP servers. Freedom is defined by capitalistic freedoms, and at the moment, all freedom is a moot amount of fluff. [quote]- Automate the annoying but necessary. For example, rather than having to manually advert that you're stealing a car, using your lockpick on a vehicle does it automatically.[/quote] How 'bout not having retarded rules/systems in place for things you really wouldn't fucking advertise? [quote]- Encourage cooperation. Playing against other people is fun but usually it's more fun to play with other people.[/quote] You can talk about encouragement all you want, but how do you intend on doing it? [quote]- Regulate the community. 90% of people who hate DarkRP seem to be against how easy it is to minge and how communities handle it. While this isn't RP specific, it's something that needs to happen.[/quote] If you regulate via admins and rules, you have already fucked up in the first place. You spread a regime of corruption, lies, and favoritism that breeds hatred from the playerbase. Take it from the well known minge - I "corrupt" admins via their own rulelist, by letting them believe in my very uncaring interpretations of the rules that inadvertently get people banned. Considering you are friends with an FL staff member, let's get brutally honest here: FL's biggest issues has and always will be the rules regarding FearRP, which are so exploitable that it's become a literal debate of it's own course, and they have to have fourteen variations of the same bloody rule because people still don't get the fucking message. [quote]- Ensure that everything has a purpose. Something shouldn't exist just because it looks cool. If it doesn't have its place, it needs to go.[/quote] How do you plan this? What do you mean by purpose? What has a perceived value, and what does not? [quote]- Have many, many tiered donation ranks and [B]ensure that donators write the rules[/B]. They have more money[B] IRL than non-donators and therefore have a much better understanding of the world. /s[/B][/quote] Full fucking stop. You are saying that you are letting your playerbase vote on rules because you [I]think[/I] they have a better understanding of the rules. Let me one on one in such a way where no one is willing to in this thread. You are out of your fucking mind if you believe this, or have been spoon-fed the dream that GModRP is a money-printer on crack for so long that you believe this an acceptable business model. How can you in your right mind believe your donators actually give a shit about the server? You know why I'd donate? Power. Now you are saying that you are giving them the mile by the inch, and instinctively allowing them to build up every bit of corruption that they want to build, because it might make them stay with your communities. If I were to take a look at your rulelist right now, based on what you have said, I'm bound to comb over at least three to ten rules, if not more, that are based on corrupt principles and strings at play by your donators. Donators tend to donate because they are involved with groups that require the extra benefits to stay ahead of the pack. Allowing them to play off corruption like a fine violin is a terrible ploy that's only bound to backfire in time. You never should do this, it's holding a gun against your head, and hoping for the best.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46722928]-snip-[/QUOTE] Hate to say it but I'm having trouble reading anything you said because it would appear you're not capable of detecting sarcasm. I mean, I even threw in a '/s' for you. But anyway, I was just giving examples for a few things. They're not set in stone and they're not "rules". They're just examples of things that should be changed and things that go against the norm. You're whole freedom thing doesn't make any coherent sense, so I'm not sure if you've played a freeform video game before. I'm still reading through your stuff and really most of this isn't coherent. It's like you had some valid ideas but slathered everything in this layer of edgy bullshit in order to make your point strong. Staff members exist to keep the peace. That's not how most servers run it but that's how I run mine. Also, what the hell is FL?

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46722928]The fuck am I reading through out this thread. snip[/QUOTE] roleplay, even serious roleplay... is just a game, i've done some super serious rp in and out of gmod but you are really missing... all the points... and some of the points you do have you're treating like its super serious real life...

Unless you want to continue treating all RP as Cops vs Robbers[even goes for supah sewious roleplay], you'll need to adapt to more economic freedoms and get rid of rules and admins outright. Staff has never kept peace, and generally stokes flames within the community that are better left between groups without the use of admin abilities.

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46723201]Unless you want to continue treating all RP as Cops vs Robbers[even goes for supah sewious roleplay], you'll need to adapt to more economic freedoms and get rid of rules and admins outright. Staff has never kept peace, and generally stokes flames within the community that are better left between groups without the use of admin abilities.[/QUOTE] You know how to code, Joe?

[QUOTE=Jeremey Kingrey;46721113]If you're creating a roleplay gamemode, please use the advert system for what it's real meaning is [U](advertisements)[/U], and [B]use (/me)[/B] for [U]roleplaying purposes. [/U] This is just a lick of advice if you're heading towards more roleplay instead of DarkRP, which is possibly the lowest level of roleplay due to its playerbase.[/QUOTE] Advertising raiding is stupid. It doesn't really achieve anything, and it actually hurts the "roleplay". Whenever an advertisement pops up people often check to make sure it's not them that's being victimized. if you MUST have something along the lines, make it so that they send a message sent only to admins. It's still pointless to have, but at least now it's not being an actual detriment to the server [QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46723201]Unless you want to continue treating all RP as Cops vs Robbers[even goes for supah sewious roleplay], you'll need to adapt to more economic freedoms and get rid of rules and admins outright. Staff has never kept peace, and generally stokes flames within the community that are better left between groups without the use of admin abilities.[/QUOTE] Imo admins are fine to have, an example of a roleplay game with admins that works out fine would the spacestation 13 roleplay servers. But most server's rules lists need to be trimmed down a lot, and admins should be more in the background. Not the annoying noclipping elite combine squeakers. But trying to have a serious garry's mod roleplay probably isn't a good idea simply because of the audience that exists. Despite how good you set things up it doesn't nullify the fact that the people who will pour into the server are accustomed to darkRP or HL2RP (even worse).

[QUOTE=MrBleepBleep;46723386]You know how to code, Joe?[/QUOTE] Yup.

[QUOTE=thelurker1234;46723576]Advertising raiding is stupid. It doesn't really achieve anything, and it actually hurts the "roleplay". Whenever an advertisement pops up people often check to make sure it's not them that's being victimized. if you MUST have something along the lines, make it so that they send a message sent only to admins. It's still pointless to have, but at least now it's not being an actual detriment to the server Imo admins are fine to have, an example of a roleplay game with admins that works out fine would the spacestation 13 roleplay servers. But most server's rules lists need to be trimmed down a lot, and admins should be more in the background. Not the annoying noclipping elite combine squeakers.[/QUOTE] I'll have to agree on the advertisement thing. I don't like it at all. It breaks immersion and I'm sick of getting slayed / kicked / banned because I forgot to advert that I was purchasing a hot pocket. My gaming community is about 4 years old so I've learned quite a bit. Although our "full" rules list is a few pages, it's more for reference in case stuff gets heated. Everything is loose and handled on a case by case basis. Our "short" rules list is the following: - Use common sense - Treat others the way you want to be treated

[QUOTE=JoeSkylynx;46723583]Yup.[/QUOTE] Then why not code yourself your own gamemode? I'd say I agree with you on pretty much all of your points on what's wrong and what needs to change with rp.

[QUOTE=MrBleepBleep;46729047]Then why not code yourself your own gamemode? I'd say I agree with you on pretty much all of your points on what's wrong and what needs to change with rp.[/QUOTE] Because I lack the financing, have enough emotional burden as is, and would probably end up going at odds with communities that I tend to keep on good terms with. :v:

[QUOTE=SirSavary;46715055][editline]14th December 2014[/editline]I developer professionally[/QUOTE] :rolleye: seriously it doesn't take much too make a gamemode that people will play (look at bad darkrp spinoffs, slaverp, schoolrp, anything from gaminglight)

[QUOTE=nettsam;46782450]:rolleye: seriously it doesn't take much too make a gamemode that people will play (look at bad darkrp spinoffs, slaverp, schoolrp, anything from gaminglight)[/QUOTE] My team and I have started working on a new gamemode with light roleplay. We decided to code everything from the ground up. We're hoping that we'll be ready for a Beta in a few weeks.