A Final Plea for a more Robust & Intelligent Server List - Developers

I've been playing Garry's Mod for 9 years, I've been a developer, mapper, small community leader, and a player. My nostalgia for this game is unparalleled, having been involved in NoxNet, Gmod Tower, Sassilization, Puslar Effect, Darkland, TacoNBanana, LmaoLlama (My own community and the original Basewars), and an extra in the War of the Servers machinima. I've been a member of Facepunch since 2008 ([url]https://facepunch.com/member.php?u=158607[/url]). That being said, I don't play that much anymore but whenever I am feeling nostalgic and hop on I remember why I quit: The ultimate [b]lack of diversity[/b] in game mode choices which once existed in Garry's Mod before the server list was replaced. Before the current server list, the legacy server list was a [b]meritocracy[/b] I.E. the servers with the most fun/original content were at the top of the server list. This meant that no matter the gamemode, any singular gamemode that was popular gained more visibility but with the current server list [b]duplicates and clones of gamemodes with the exact gamemode name are grouped together and dominate at the top of the server list while original gamemodes which may only have one full server are pushed to the bottom of the server list[/b] this creates a feedback loop where content that is copied is favored by the system and gains more visibility while original content gets less and less visibility. To the current dev team, please modify the current server list to resemble the meritocracy of the legacy server list. [b]TL;DR[/b] Communities with original gamemodes cannot compete for visibility with mainstream gamemodes and eventually die within the system created by the current server list. If you agree please comment to keep this post visible.

There is literally no [developer] that likes the new server browser. I doubt it will be changed though

[QUOTE=Kevlon;50804553]There is literally no [developer] that likes the new server browser. I doubt it will be changed though[/QUOTE] I really just don't understand why not, it would take like 1-3 hours to recode.

I'm working on my own custom gamemode and what really demotivates me is that I would most likely have to pay for advertisment on the top servers in order to get constant inflow of new players. The new list sucks.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;50804557]I really just don't understand why not, it would take like 1-3 hours to recode.[/QUOTE] I forgot what the issue was. Probably that awesomium is outdated

I remember seeing a ton of posts where people have already recoded the server browser, it wouldn't even take any effort to implement [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1440809"]Here's[/URL] a [URL="https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1478363"]few[/URL]

[QUOTE=Netheous;50804563]I'm working on my own custom gamemode and what really demotivates me is that I would most likely have to pay for advertisment on the top servers in order to get constant inflow of new players. The new list sucks.[/QUOTE] It is an absolute deterrent for me, I've always wanted to recode Basewars ([url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pMy3L8BIPh9YlLUVGB1weYDmlsXe-lpeJq2v-bvxGZw/edit?usp=sharing]Link[/url]) but I've talked with so many community leaders who have to shutdown their communities because they aren't hosting any of the mainstream gamemodes.

:snip: automerge

[QUOTE=MPan1;50804579]:snip: automerge[/QUOTE] The problem wouldn't be solved if I alone downloaded an alternative; the alternative would need to be mainstream in order for the issue to be resolved.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;50804574]It is an absolute deterrent for me, I've always wanted to recode Basewars ([url=https://docs.google.com/document/d/1pMy3L8BIPh9YlLUVGB1weYDmlsXe-lpeJq2v-bvxGZw/edit?usp=sharing]Link[/url]) but I've talked with so many community leaders who have to shutdown their communities because they aren't hosting any of the mainstream gamemodes.[/QUOTE] I'm fairly sure that if a gamemode like gmod tower was made and hosted with 0 players today, It would stay dead

It hasn't been changed because no one's actually offered a decent solution that wouldn't piss off one or more groups of the gmod community. A legacy browser clone: Would cause massive bitching from players and help the large 100+ player servers like mine further monopolize since most sort by player count. Gamemode categories: High potential for abuse What happens if you do find a solution and start killing off DarkRP servers? You will get massive backlash from what is without a doubt the biggest part of the garrysmod community. There is no good solution right now.

[QUOTE=Kevlon;50804584]I'm fairly sure that if a gamemode like gmod tower was made and hosted with 0 players today, It would stay dead[/QUOTE] [QUOTE=StonedPenguin;50804590]It hasn't been changed because no one's actually offered a decent solution that wouldn't piss off one or more groups of the gmod community. A legacy browser clone: Would cause massive bitching from players and help the large 100+ player servers like mine further monopolize since most sort by player count. Gamemode categories: High potential for abuse What happens if you do find a solution and start killing off DarkRP servers? You will get massive backlash from what is without a doubt the biggest part of the garrysmod community. There is no good solution right now.[/QUOTE] A gamemode categories system is worse than a legacy browser system for one basic fact: An [b]empty[/b] DarkRP server has more visibility (in theory) than a gamemode with one full server. Also it's fallacious to assume their would be backlash. A fair compromise would be a system where there are two tabs and by default the first tab is the legacy browser and the second tab is a sorted gamemodes list.

[QUOTE=Llamalord;50804600]A gamemode categories system is worse than a legacy browser system for one basic fact: An [b]empty[/b] DarkRP server has more visibility (in theory) than a gamemode with one full server. Also it's fallacious to assume their would be backlash. A fair compromise would be a system where there are two tabs and by default the first tab is the legacy browser and the second tab is a sorted gamemodes list.[/QUOTE] Except it doesn't because this server browser is even worse. It has a ~500 server limit (I think), So empty servers don't even have a chance to show up

[QUOTE=Kevlon;50804606]Except it doesn't because this server browser is even worse. It has a ~500 server limit (I think), So empty servers don't even have a chance to show up[/QUOTE] That's even worse; if a gamemode is getting so over saturated that some servers aren't even showing up then that's a critical error.

There isn't one, ultimate, flawless solution - but a combination of few small tweaks could work wonders. Adding options such as: - quick play (find random server with random gamemode, prioritizing the ones hosted near you, prioritizing the ones that aren't full but have enough players to play the gamemode). - highlight of the day (showing a fully random gamemode and servers hosted on it, based on nothing - as long as there's atleast 1 server hosting it, there's a chance for it to be shown in the highlight) - 'You should also try..' - suggested servers, based on previous gamemodes played - showing 3-6 different servers with different specifications: 1-2 empty, new; 1-2 half-empty, new, 1-2 almost full old. Feel free to discuss my opinions, I wrote them in a hurry - but my general conclusion is that we could either have the engine direct players to less popular servers from time to time via quick play or we could give them a random highlight.

I too am working on a new gamemode and trying to get a decent player count on to test it is likely to never happen. But I know if renamed so it showed up in the DarkRP category id get a million players. The current browser sucks and I don't see any of the current devs changing it any time soon. The only way these days to get your gamemodes noticed is if a famous YouTuber plays it. Edit: here is another reason why the current browser is terrible. [url]https://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1528773[/url]

Yeah the server browser is shit.. I might play gmod 'just' since the last few weeks of GM12(where the beta of 13 was out, still played 12 though), but I hate this server browser, the only way to make your community survive is to host one of the 'main' gamemodes, like DarkRP or TTT, and I myself, hate DarkRP, atleast the 'new generation' of players, I miss the old times with 'Old-School' communities like NGM & Plex.

I feel like a few YouTubers that play new game modes every video would really help things get noticed. Then again we shouldn't be relying on them for success.

I'm considering starting a darkrp, prophunt, and ttt server off my home network that just redirects players to my gamemode. Really though, I think a lot of new gamemodes can't compete with already-popularized gamemodes just based on the amount of content they have, few players means devs are less motivated, and the gamemode never gets to a point where it is polished enough to compete with TTT or DarkRP. I kinda blame us as developers too, the workshop is a poor substitution for a proper package manager. (I just want dependency resolution to be automatic instead of "go download these things and come back"; and lib support, everyone seems to package GLON or vON with their scripts). I've recently downloaded 3 maps that use almost all the same props, materials, and textures, but each map packages the props with the map, and massive downloads means most player's don't care enough to try out new stuff.

[QUOTE=Ott;50806330]I feel like a few YouTubers that play new game modes every video would really help things get noticed. Then again we shouldn't be relying on them for success.[/QUOTE] That happened to both of my original gamemodes (Cops and Runners, You Touched it Last) and they have pretty much died again. It's in almost all cases only temporary boosts you gain from that.

Seriously, how is the new browser in any way an improvement over the old one, aside from "it's newer"?[T][/T]

[QUOTE=Luni;50806498]Seriously, how is the new browser in any way an improvement over the old one, aside from "it's newer"?[T][/T][/QUOTE] It got a new design, and they had to make a new browser with GM13 :v:

[QUOTE=Apickx;50806361]I'm considering starting a darkrp, prophunt, and ttt server off my home network that just redirects players to my gamemode.[/QUOTE] And they will leave because they were expecting DarkRP, Prophunt, or TTT, and all you will have accomplished is wasted their time. I agree the current server browser is shit, but lying to players with fake servers is not the way to fix it.

Instead of grouping by gamemode, how about grouping by latency ranges....

[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;50812315]Instead of grouping by gamemode, how about grouping by latency ranges....[/QUOTE] This would be the most unbiased path. Who has contact with the current development though?

[QUOTE=Llamalord;50812488]This would be the most unbiased path. Who has contact with the current development though?[/QUOTE] A lot of people here are in contact with the current developers but I'm not sure how much good that does. From what I've heard garry has some perverse obsession with his server browser and will stop giving Willox and Rubat their Ferraris if they remove it. :frown:

[QUOTE=ph:lxyz;50812315]Instead of grouping by gamemode, how about grouping by latency ranges....[/QUOTE] This is already happening via Valve's Geo-IP and is part of the reason we're in this sorry state right now.

[QUOTE=Teddi Orange;50812670]This is already happening via Valve's Geo-IP and is part of the reason we're in this sorry state right now.[/QUOTE] Sure, but instead of hiding the servers completely according to region, they could be shown, but grouped by latency. It won't fix the valve issue directly, of course, as you say - but maybe gmod can query each region and put the results together. Green = 25ms or less Green-Yellow = 25 - 80ms Orange = 80 - 120ms Red = 120 - 200ms Brown = 200+ms (for example) Each band could still group by gamemode if that's really necessary; the gamemodes that are not named DarkRP or TTT would then at least have a chance of appearing somewhere near the top if they responded quickly to query.

I completely agree, and would like to see this changed too. Have you tried contacting the development team directly? Obviously some of them are active on the forums and might have seen this, but a direct approach is still better.

[QUOTE=ph:lxyz]Sure, but instead of hiding the servers completely according to region, they could be shown, but grouped by latency. It won't fix the valve issue directly, of course, as you say - but maybe gmod can query each region and put the results together. Green = 25ms or less Green-Yellow = 25 - 80ms Orange = 80 - 120ms Red = 120 - 200ms Brown = 200+ms (for example) Each band could still group by gamemode if that's really necessary; the gamemodes that are not named DarkRP or TTT would then at least have a chance of appearing somewhere near the top if they responded quickly to query.[/QUOTE] Yeah! Maybe add an option to filter by map too, and we should let servers define keywords that players can then search, maybe even some other stuff like not showing server that are full, or are passworded! Wait a minute...