Hello,
My name is Rick Jones. I am the creator of Smash Champ.
I have an urgent request that I am willing to pay for. I need somebody who can export all of the “Summoner’s Rift” level models from League of Legends for the Source Engine and then recreate the entirety of Summoner’s Rift in Hammer for use in SFM.
I believe some of the objects (like the tower models) have already been exported. I’m not exactly sure what all would need to be done but I guess the first method I was told to attempt was to try to use DXRipper, look at what is output, try to find an optimal position to take the rip at and write a script in max to remove the perspective errors assuming LoL doesn't use an orthographic view.
This is a legitimate offer and since you would be working as a freelancer we would pay you a portion up front and a portion afterward. We have been told this project would take 20-30 hours to complete so we are looking at about a $400 job. Although - the rate is negotiable - depending on the amount of work required and time this project can be completed in.
For those who may be interested in the legal ramifications of us using your ripped content in machinimation project . . .
. . . the worst case scenario (worst possible case) is that the youtube video would get flagged and taken off youtube. There is no possible way this job could or would get tracked to the ripper. If the ripper wants some sort of “protection” in the contract they sign with me – we can do it. If you want, by contract, I would never tell anybody at Machinima who exactly ripped and compiled the content.
Do we have explicit permission for this exact rip? No. Getting permission for this would be a waste of time for everybody up and down the ladder for both companies. The relationship up top is what matters. Machinima and Riot already have a good relationship with carefully defined rules of conduct. If for whatever reason we find out that Riot didn’t like us using their model (for whatever reason) – they would discuss it up top and it would be a very simple fix; we take the video down and we learn that Riot has a very different approach then the rest of the video game world.
If this becomes a popular series – then it would be worth the time to explore those connections. Right now this is just a pilot from a so far unproven producer. If it becomes popular with 500,000+ views per episode, Riot would probably reach out to Machinima and they would help me find a contact there at Riot who might work with me – like the way Bungie worked with the Red Vs Blue team. However, it takes time and an audience for those on top to think making those connections is worth the time.
We have no idea how much ripped content we can use in machinimation because there has never been a court case that has needed to look at the four factors of fair use. There has never needed to be a court case because the video game companies LOVE machinimation with their content. What they are worried about is the use of their ripped content in other video games.
The “fair use” of ripped models in Machinimation is a legally grey area. The reason it’s not “legally” black and white is because it is clearly NOT “ethically” grey. Video game companies love it. It’s not like CD burning which for most musicians is clearly “stealing.” What we are doing we continue to do with blessings.
[editline]15th October 2013[/editline]
Feel free to PM me or email me at pikaparody @ gmail . com or skype me at Kedric Jones (from Chicago)
i love working for Machinima™ and I love League Of Legends™ and oh god help me i am a corperate shill
That is not a very helpful post, but thanks for your input. :-)
I think you might be better off doing something original unless Mashinima has contracted you to do what they want.
nomad, thanks for the advice but this is definitely the project I want to do. Do you think the task is so daunting? What makes it so difficult? I know I'm an idiot and I could use any help you have.
for one, you're paying people to rip content which makes it legally dark gray
two, machinima (the company) is in an interesting place right now and if trouble with riot appeared they'd instantly drop you
three, you appear to be relatively small which ties into two, you aren't worth machinima dealing with any legal trouble over you
[editline]15th October 2013[/editline]
basically, machinima is not in the place to be taking risks like this right now
better luck next time though!
[redacted] Person above me said it better then I.
I was going to write something else here but I was not sure how to word it. I guess all I can say is best of luck with what you are doing and for the love of god please do not use memes.
Lord Crypto,
Good response.
1. As I mentioned before, the legality rests in the courts interpretation of the four factors of fair use. The ripping of models for another “video game” would be an example of something “dark grey.” If your familiar with the four factors, it’s pretty clear the use of ripped models for a simple youtube production would be on the “light grey” area. Did you read my full post?
2. Machinima would not drop me when all they have to do is take the video down.
3. True . . . but there clearly won’t be any legal trouble.
Thanks for the response. If you know of anybody or anywhere I can get some help for this gig it would be much appreciated.
I'm with the others, I doubt Machinima is going to stick their neck out right now and risk litigation.
If you're serious about this project, it would be more tempting to go with DOTA 2 over League Of Legends.
Primarily because it's more Source-friendly, and if it's anything like Portal 2, you should be able to create a directory in SFM of the full game, to get instant access to any art assets you want.
And legal wise, it's all Valve-made, and know they're fine with us using their IP in their own film creator. Hell, they encourage it!
All the best in your project.
It is understandable why most of you do not trust Machinima. The trend with today’s generation is to mistrust big business, corporations, and government (and often rightly so) – so I don’t blame any of you. Being afraid for the model ripper, however, would be like being afraid for the common everyday music CD ripper. When big music industry smashed Napster, who got in trouble? The big guy or the little guy? :-)
As for using DOTA . . . there is no better way to offend our LoL fanbase then using stuff ported from DOTA 2. That is a very good idea but it would definitely not work in this case. It would be better to recreate the level from scratch.
To the best of my knowledge, there's no easy pipeline for LoL to source, or even to .obj. Given the game's popularity, there would likely be a mutli-page thread over in the modeling section if it was easy to port from. If it's rip only, that means a potential exponential increase in effort and difficulty for decreased returns. Even if was easy port work, you're asking for a complete rip of an entire library of game assets, which I don't think has happened for even the most popular and easily accessible of games (FO3 is close, but that's been the efforts of entire teams of modelers and mappers over the course of years).
Logistics aside, you're opening your discussion with talking about the legality of the work, which is like trying to hire someone by putting an ad in the classified section of the paper saying "hey if I hire you to do X, I promise I won't leave you dead in a shallow grave"
You need to temper your vision and figure out what can be done and what's possible instead of trying to throw out a rate of what'd likely come to ~$4.00-1.00 per hour for frustrating work that can only be done with skilled labor for legal grey area is just not close to worth it. You'll need to make some realistic decisions, I think the DOTA2 suggestion is a good one.
Looking at the map. it has little difference from the Dota 2 map that has already been ported over. If you just made the radiant side on both. their might be some LOL rips that you can then port into hammer and pretty up.
I don't think your gonna get much help in this. ripping is not as easy as people think. Neather is mapping. And PAYING for the stuff is legally very very very dark gray
Smashbits, don't worry. I've been talking with dex, I've already ripped all the models. However, the Rift cannot be obtained and would need to be hand-made. The only map related objects that can be extracted are the structures like tower and nexus but all the terrain would need to be remade. Though everything else like character models are there and rigged.
[t]http://puu.sh/4RWRg.jpg[/t]
I don't understand the "this game is hard to rip from" mentality. A couple Google searches and I was able to get every single model in Maya to export to source.
These two images aren't in source but it's just to show a couple of the models from the game, all rigged.
[t]http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2013/273/9/8/zed3_by_krailyx-d6oqhp4.jpg[/t]
[t]http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/272/9/3/lol_champs_1_by_krailyx-d6okfhs.jpg[/t]
[QUOTE=SmashBits;42543029]It is understandable why most of you do not trust Machinima. The trend with today’s generation is to mistrust big business, corporations, and government (and often rightly so[/QUOTE]
The contracts Machinima give you are different from 2008 - 2009. IF your series gets popular as you want it. Have fun trying to get out of the contract when you are older if you ever want to. While in their contract they say you can leave at any time. The truth is - they won't let you go.
Machinima AFAIK went downhill once a bunch of popular money makers decided to quit machinima. This prompted them to change their TOS.
Nomad,
I mean no offense but you clearly have never read the contract. I can't tell you how many times I have read it. Additionally, “a bunch” of “popular” money makers did not leave machinima. A few did – probably can’t even count them on one hand – and they clearly did not read the contract either. This is a great example of today’s tendency to mistrust big business. Why was everybody so quick to doubt Machinima while nobody doubted the supposed whistle blowers? I am not saying big business should receive blind trust. It’s just that we need to be aware of our tendency to trust one group over the other.
[editline]17th October 2013[/editline]
krailyx, I have a team working on rigging LoL models too. It would probably be a good idea for us to work together and share resources.
[QUOTE=SmashBits;42549981]Nomad,
I mean no offense but you clearly have never read the contract. I can't tell you how many times I have read it. Additionally, “a bunch” of “popular” money makers did not leave machinima. A few did – probably can’t even count them on one hand – and they clearly did not read the contract either. This is a great example of today’s tendency to mistrust big business. Why was everybody so quick to doubt Machinima while nobody doubted the supposed whistle blowers? I am not saying big business should receive blind trust. It’s just that we need to be aware of our tendency to trust one group over the other.
[editline]17th October 2013[/editline]
krailyx, I have a team working on rigging LoL models too. It would probably be a good idea for us to work together and share resources.[/QUOTE]
Actually, this is why I don't trust Machining
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/DmOdrqd.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/EgXbm6W.jpg[/IMG]
It seems like it's their biggest directors that get actual support and the smaller ones like this guy are left to suffer, it's sad to see Happen.
[QUOTE=Leestons;42550024]Actually, this is why I don't trust Machining[/QUOTE]
Leestons,
This is another great example of today’s tendency to give preference to the individual and mistrust big business. Why not question TinyTom? You are only hearing one perspective here – that is never a good practice.
I don’t know all the issues involved but I instinctively have learned not to give 100% credibility to a single person complaining about an issue. Tom is complaining in September about not getting pay for July. I heard at this time (I was not with Machinima in 2005), Machinima was paying quarterly because of the way youtube was set up and the way Machinima was “counting views” to determine payments. That’s a lot of work.
If Tom had read his contract he would have found the answers to his questions. If Machinima was paying quarterly, he should have waited till after September to get his payment. Machinima was not 11 days late. In fact, they have something like 90 days after the last quarter to make payment – so according to the contract that Tiny Tom likely signed – he was demanding money 110ish days early.
When I signed with Machinima I read the contract. Receiving payment for my projects 1-3 months after the last quarter became a part of my annual rhythm before I received my first payment.
[editline]17th October 2013[/editline]
[QUOTE=krailyx;42550225]It seems like it's their biggest directors that get actual support and the smaller ones like this guy are left to suffer, it's sad to see Happen.[/QUOTE]
Krailyx,
You’re absolutely right and it is very wrong. This is true for every business in the world though. I’m a little guy and I got squashed. I was mad but I accepted it because I knew I was just a little guy.
Those posts were made this year by the way.
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1266490&p=41596849#post41596849[/url]
[url]http://facepunch.com/showthread.php?t=1266490&p=41597992&viewfull=1#post41597992[/url]
2005 is when he registered, not the post date.
[QUOTE=ILY;42553617]Those posts were made this year by the way.
2005 is when he registered, not the post date.[/QUOTE]
lol, wow. That's good to know. Can't believe I messed that one up.
In that case, I have no idea what exact contract he is on - but I believe Machinima is still in bounds according to whatever contract he might have signed. I would tell him to wait till the end of the quarter.
[QUOTE=SmashBits;42553721]lol, wow. That's good to know. Can't believe I messed that one up.
In that case, I have no idea what exact contract he is on - but I believe Machinima is still in bounds according to whatever contract he might have signed. I would tell him to wait till the end of the quarter.[/QUOTE]
he is right, you may want to leave (and this is true about all networks) but its up to them to let you go. Even if it says in the contract. You can't manually disconnect from the cms
I'm not sure what the whole fuss about the "you can never leave the contract" thing was about. The only thing that is "forever" in the contract is Machinima's payments. Why would somebody want to get out of that?
The whole fuss about the "you can never leave the contract" is that in the real world, as long as the contract does not say anything about perpetuity with regards to you being bound with them, you should be allowed to leave the network. I don't have a business or law degree so I could be wrong.
I'm not exactly sure in what aspect they were saying they were "bound" to the network. Clearly whatever aspect they were referring to was untrue. However, there might be other aspects that you could use "bound" language with.
I'm not afraid of corporations, its the people in charge now that scare the hell out of me. A lot of the Youtube networks have been infiltrated by outside investors, so usually what happens when someone gives a company a lot of money they get to be on the Board of Directors so they can now directly influence policy. That's why Machinima has changed so much over the years its not the same people running the show from beginning, its lawyers and people interested in draining every ounce of money they can from the content creators. That's why companies like Valve wont go public and wont except money from financiers, they want control of their content.
But it sounds to me like you REALLY want to work for Machinima, so go for it. Come back in a year and tell everyone how great it is. There's people in here that have experience with them trying to tell you truth and you've put your blinders on.
Prof,
I do not have blinders on. “Blinders” is when a person is unable to see something from all perspectives. I try to be fair and listen to both sides of each argument. Sure, Machinima has made many mistakes. As you pointed out, every corporation is made up of people and people are imperfect.
I don’t really give into this kind of conspiracy theory. One person could say that Machinima milks content creators for as much money as possible. The truth is, Machinima is giving them an opportunity they never would have otherwise had. Has anybody left Machinima and did better after they left? Has anybody joined Machinima and did worse after they joined?
Again, I am not communicating a blind trust in Machinima. I am just trying to discourage extreme one sided perspectives.
I think we have strayed from what the original question was which is "I need help with X for Y which will be featured on Z".
I love people that like to stay focused on the task at hand. Thanks Nomad.
[QUOTE=krailyx;42548922]Smashbits, don't worry. I've been talking with dex, I've already ripped all the models. However, the Rift cannot be obtained and would need to be hand-made. The only map related objects that can be extracted are the structures like tower and nexus but all the terrain would need to be remade. Though everything else like character models are there and rigged.
[t]http://puu.sh/4RWRg.jpg[/t]
Looking pretty good, could you give a link of the models? Ill love to port them to Gmod :D
I don't understand the "this game is hard to rip from" mentality. A couple Google searches and I was able to get every single model in Maya to export to source.
These two images aren't in source but it's just to show a couple of the models from the game, all rigged.
[t]http://th00.deviantart.net/fs71/PRE/f/2013/273/9/8/zed3_by_krailyx-d6oqhp4.jpg[/t]
[t]http://th06.deviantart.net/fs70/PRE/f/2013/272/9/3/lol_champs_1_by_krailyx-d6okfhs.jpg[/t][/QUOTE]
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