Needing help with 3DS Max, Wallworm and Source engine models (Eyes, flexes)

[Thunderysteak]

Right, I know how to get a model into Source and all that stuff using 3DS Max 2012 and the Cannonfodder SMD exporter, but the problem is that when it comes to eyes or flexes and Wallworm, I'm completely lost.

I just spend 3 hours googling, trying to figure out how to create poseable eyes for models. Here are most of the issues in a nutshell:
>All documentation is extremely outdated, incomplete, broken or nonexistant
>Wallworm is fucking with the texture names, causing for all the textures to non-function
>The said plugin also randomly fucks with 3DS Max where I'm unable to do anything, have to close 3DS Max, rollback to old save and do everything over. Happens after SMD export
>When Wallworm is used to export SMD and VTA, then compiled, textures are missing, bones fucked. flexes not working and eyes non-functioning

Could someone point me to the right direction or guides how to correctly get a model into Source with the flexes and eyes functional?

I'm currently using fully updated 3DS Max 2013 with latest Wallworm but finally migrating to 2015 since I just got a new license. Also I'd prefer to stay with 3DS Max and not migrate to Blender.

[Senscith]

Frankly I've never been able to get Wallworm to work properly with any sort of ragdoll. Importing or exporting I've always had the thing absolutely butcher the skin envelopes beyond all reason, and sometimes just have it do absolutely nothing. I honestly do any work in Max 2014 still and save it as a Max 2012 file, load it up and export using the old smd tools. You can try setting up Maya as someone works on some export/import tools for it but I believe the last supported version of Maya was 2014.

As for the eyes there should be a helper program in the SDK designed to help you set up the .qc lines for your eyeballs, qc_eyeballs I think.

[Thunderysteak]

That's pretty much what Wallworm does to me, I find it weird that there's no alternative. Sadly, I cannot get a Maya license nor afford it, so that's one option out.

Yeah, I am aware of the qc_eyes program. I used it. but it basically did not work.

Is there any tool for 3DS Max 2012 for flexes though?

[Deunan]

[QUOTE=Thunderysteak;49861786]That's pretty much what Wallworm does to me, I find it weird that there's no alternative. Sadly, I cannot get a Maya license nor afford it, so that's one option out.

Yeah, I am aware of the qc_eyes program. I used it. but it basically did not work.

Is there any tool for 3DS Max 2012 for flexes though?[/QUOTE]

QC_eyes works fine. Might be better if you tell us what your issues with it are. As far as source goes though, I'd usually recommend having a spare install of 2012, since that supports the relevant plugins.

[episoder]

i dunno why people got so many problems with eyes. it is just that for the basic eyeballs.

$attachment eyes  bip_head 0.000 -2.60735 65.66425 absolute

$model "face" "example.dmx" {

	eyeball lefteye bip_head 1.36735 -2.60735 65.66425 eyeball_l 1.000 -4.000 iris 0.567
	eyeball righteye bip_head -1.34735 -2.60735 65.66425 eyeball_r 1.000 4.000 iris 0.567

	flexcontroller eyes range -45.000 45.000 eyes_updown
	flexcontroller eyes range -45.000 45.000 eyes_rightleft
}

you just gotta have the model look into -y direction and get the coordinates corrected. they're a somewhat default human. you'll need some more commands like eyelid for the automatic eyelid movement, but that should basicly work.

[Doakes]

Certain models don't load any of the facial rigs whatsoever I find. Which is incredibly bizarre.
[QUOTE] That's pretty much what Wallworm does to me, I find it weird that there's no alternative. Sadly, I cannot get a Maya license nor afford it, so that's one option out.[/QUOTE]Not necessarily. All Autodesk Software offers free three year licenses to all of their products if you are a student or faculty member. If you graduated already, you SHOULD still be able to use your email, provided you still have some of your student or faculty information, I believe.

[Thunderysteak]

[QUOTE=wraithcat;49862077]QC_eyes works fine. Might be better if you tell us what your issues with it are. As far as source goes though, I'd usually recommend having a spare install of 2012, since that supports the relevant plugins.[/QUOTE]

Alright, this is what I do
I detach the eyes from the model for easier texturing, but apply skin on them so that they move with the model. I apply materials "eyeball_l" and "eyeball_r" to the eyes, deform the model to the qc_eyes instruction for the lids, export VTA with Wallworm and SMD with 3DS Max 2012. Then compile and drop the correct textures "grn_pupil_r" and "grn_pupil_l" to the materials with the "EyeRefract" shader. in SFM, console is not spewing out any errors, so I don't know where the problem is.

this is my QC file

$modelname   "thunderysteak/castelia panda.mdl"
$scale 2

$model cas "cas.SMD"

$cdmaterials "thunderysteak/castelia-panda/"

$sequence ref "cas" fps 1

//start eye/face data
$eyeposition 0 0 70

//head controllers
$attachment "eyes" "pandarenfemale_bone_36" 0.00 0.00 39.58 absolute
$attachment "mouth" "pandarenfemale_bone_36" 0.80 -5.80 -0.15 rotate 0 -80 -90

$model castelia "cas.smd" {
	eyeball righteye "pandarenfemale_bone_36" 4.75 -1.50 39.58 "eyeball_r" 2.00 4 "grn_pupil_r" 1.00
	eyeball lefteye "pandarenfemale_bone_36" 4.75 1.50 39.58 "eyeball_l" 2.00 -4 "grn_pupil_l" 1.00

	eyelid  upper_right "cas" lowerer 1 -0.19 neutral 0 0.46 raiser 2 0.74 split 0.1 eyeball righteye
	eyelid  lower_right "cas" lowerer 3 -0.34 neutral 0 -0.34 raiser 4 -0.34 split 0.1 eyeball righteye
	eyelid  upper_left "cas" lowerer 1 -0.19 neutral 0 0.46 raiser 2 0.74 split -0.1 eyeball lefteye
	eyelid  lower_left "cas" lowerer 3 -0.34 neutral 0 -0.34 raiser 4 -0.34 split -0.1 eyeball lefteye

	mouth 0 "mouth" "pandarenfemale_bone_36" 0 1 0     // mouth illumination
	flexfile "cas" {
		$include "standardflex_xsi.qci"
	}
	$include "facerules_xsi.qci"
	$include "bodyrules_xsi.qci"
}
//end eye/face data

//pandarenfemale_bone_36

Model basically has no iris
[IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/hlmv_2016-03-04_11-53-42.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=episoder;49862192]i dunno why people got so many problems with eyes. it is just that for the basic eyeballs.

$attachment eyes  bip_head 0.000 -2.60735 65.66425 absolute

$model "face" "example.dmx" {

	eyeball lefteye bip_head 1.36735 -2.60735 65.66425 eyeball_l 1.000 -4.000 iris 0.567
	eyeball righteye bip_head -1.34735 -2.60735 65.66425 eyeball_r 1.000 4.000 iris 0.567

	flexcontroller eyes range -45.000 45.000 eyes_updown
	flexcontroller eyes range -45.000 45.000 eyes_rightleft
}

you just gotta have the model look into -y direction and get the coordinates corrected. they're a somewhat default human. you'll need some more commands like eyelid for the automatic eyelid movement, but that should basicly work.[/QUOTE]

I also tried to use this code, but same result.

[episoder]

okay. boiled it down real quick. easy to test. seems to be the $scale. those absolute positions seem to not scale up. try whether multiply the eyeball and eyes origins (vectors) by 2 (your scale) or you could rescale and 'freeze' the model before export. and ofc reposition the eyeballs and eyes attachement too. according to scale or you gotta rip the corrected coordinates from max or qc_eyes again. shouldn't be alot of work to get it.

edit: another issue i just re-read. you gotta rotate your model so it faces in the default -y direction aka what the front usually is. might exchange the coordinates x and y values and probably negative the y value too.

[Thunderysteak]

[QUOTE=episoder;49866773]okay. boiled it down real quick. easy to test. seems to be the $scale. those absolute positions seem to not scale up. try whether multiply the eyeball and eyes origins (vectors) by 2 (your scale) or you could rescale and 'freeze' the model before export. and ofc reposition the eyeballs and eyes attachement too. according to scale or you gotta rip the corrected coordinates from max or qc_eyes again. shouldn't be alot of work to get it.

edit: another issue i just re-read. you gotta rotate your model so it faces in the default -y direction aka what the front usually is. might exchange the coordinates x and y values and probably negative the y value too.[/QUOTE]

Turns out that the $scale is the culprit

Now I ended up with this (The eyes are not moving btw)
[IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/hlmv_2016-03-04_21-47-47.png[/IMG]

What steps I should follow to fix this?

[episoder]

like i edited. rotate the model into the -y direction and correct the eyeball and eyes attachement origins. just for the heck... this how the shader smears it. the projection. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qEoShTI.jpg[/IMG] around the center 'equator'. it basicly 'screams' "look there". ;)

[Thunderysteak]

[QUOTE=episoder;49867952]like i edited. rotate the model into the -y direction and correct the eyeball and eyes attachement origins. just for the heck... this how the shader smears it. the projection. [IMG]http://i.imgur.com/qEoShTI.jpg[/IMG] around the center 'equator'.[/QUOTE]

Okay, stupid question time. Since the model has Y:0
[IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/3dsmax_2016-03-04_22-10-43.png[/IMG]

How many degrees it should be rotated? -90? Like this?
[IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/3dsmax_2016-03-04_22-14-31.png[/IMG]

[episoder]

ohh kay. that looks stupid. excuse me for using blender which is a native. i thought max is the same regular when it comes to axis. valve wiki says it doesn't need upaxis. well... edit me confusing axis'... rotate it around z (?) until it looks the correct way. which should be your front ortho perspective.

[Thunderysteak]

[QUOTE=episoder;49868093]ohh kay. that looks stupid. excuse me for using blender which is a native. i thought max is the same regular when it comes to axis. valve wiki says it doesn't need upaxis. well... edit me confusing axis'... rotate it around z (?) until it looks the correct way. which should be your front ortho perspective.[/QUOTE]

It's fine! It was the Z axis.
[IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/hlmv_2016-03-04_22-44-41.png[/IMG][IMG]http://i.heykidwannayiff.com/hlmv_2016-03-04_22-46-15.png[/IMG]

Okay! Progress!

Now the eyes are, uh, crosseyed and there is some weird + on the eye
How should I proceed?

[episoder]

correct the centers of the eyeballs. and maybe you wanna use vtfedit or your texture exporter to set the clamps and clampt or both clamp flags for the iris texture.

[Thunderysteak]

[video]https://youtu.be/Ml7p8Ls3PeI[/video]

It works now! Thanks for the help!