Stuff from a game I'm working on - Developers

Well, I've been working on this stuff for a while, and someone finally motivated me to post some of it, so I can get some constructive criticism. I'm making a game. As this game is basically my resume for getting into the industry, I'm attempting to do pretty much every part of the process, learning what I need along the way. The coding, the art, the story, etc. About all I won't do is the voicing, but that's a long ways off. Note that these are the first real models I've shown off. I did some ports before, and a simple model to prove it's possible, but nothing I'd call serious. So these could be called my first models. The game itself doesn't have a name yet. I'm just calling it "Project Overture". Don't look for too much meaning in that, I just looked at the Wikipedia article-of-the-day when I needed a codename for it. I've got some title ideas, but I haven't committed to anything yet. I'm going for a Japanese-influenced style, sort of "Tetsuya Nomura after learning the meaning of subtlety". I'm keeping some of the exaggerated design, but I'm throwing out the needless complexity. Please don't criticize the art [i]style[/i], just the implementation thereof. I know many people here aren't fans of that style. OK, I think I've rambled enough. Time for content. Right now, all I have in near-final state are a bunch of the swords, so that's what I'll show: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEIYBSCIF4s[/media] That's of the sword named "Deathedge", belonging to one of the villains. Yes, I realize that it would be physically impossible to use in actual battle. I don't care about realism for this project. The design itself is supposed to evoke a ripped-out spine (the villain is rather violent and brutal like that). I'm thinking the text might be too large and prominent, what do you guys think? A background render of another sword: Click to expand, they're wallpaper-sized: [URL=http://img192.imageshack.us/my.php?image=background01a.jpg][IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/184/background01a.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img717.imageshack.us/my.php?image=background01p.jpg][IMG]http://img717.imageshack.us/img717/5930/background01p.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] I'd appreciate it if someone would check the Japanese on that, since I'm still learning. It should translate as "Death Before Dishonor". The sword itself is named "Evil's Bane", and is wielded by a rival hero to the player character. And yes, the sword design clashes with the language of the writing. It's deliberate. If you think that's bad, wait for the wakizashi with ancient Greek writing. I have another video that I'm finishing up, and a couple more models nearly ready to render. I'm planning on releasing a set of the swords for GMod (and maybe as an Oblivion mod), so I can get more relevant criticism. Feedback?

deathedge doesn't really look deadly

[QUOTE=magicman1234;22465602]deathedge doesn't really look deadly[/QUOTE] How so?

It looks bent and the render is pretty bad.

[QUOTE=PLing;22469494]It looks bent and the render is pretty bad.[/QUOTE] I don't see how it's bent, but I [del]may[/del] have been working on this too long. I'll do a few renders from different angles, to see if it looks weird in those. As for the render, I think Youtube's codec messed it up a bit. Especially the downscaled versions. Maybe it is a problem on my end, though. What, exactly, looks bad, so I can try to fix it? [editline]04:42PM[/editline] A couple quick renders from various angles: [URL=http://img687.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury1.png][IMG]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1732/swordfury1.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury2.png][IMG]http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5589/swordfury2.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury3.png][IMG]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2/swordfury3.png[/IMG][/URL]

Does nobody have feedback? I don't care if you don't like it as long as you can tell me why, so I can do better!

[QUOTE=gman003-main;22471117]I don't see how it's bent, but I [del]may[/del] have been working on this too long. I'll do a few renders from different angles, to see if it looks weird in those. As for the render, I think Youtube's codec messed it up a bit. Especially the downscaled versions. Maybe it is a problem on my end, though. What, exactly, looks bad, so I can try to fix it? [editline]04:42PM[/editline] A couple quick renders from various angles: [URL=http://img687.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury1.png][IMG]http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1732/swordfury1.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury2.png][IMG]http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/5589/swordfury2.png[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img28.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury3.png][IMG]http://img28.imageshack.us/img28/2/swordfury3.png[/IMG][/URL][/QUOTE] Go find some pictures of swords online, or, better yet, go to a store that sells swords. I can tell you right there that that 'sword' would not cut a thing. It may pierce things, but it has absolutely no cutting edge. You would be better off calling it a mace. Simply, the 'ribs' are way too thick.

The texture (if there is one) looks very flat. Try adding splotches, scratches, an AO map etc.

[QUOTE=fewes;22484429]The texture (if there is one) looks very flat.Try adding splotches, scratches, an AO map etc.[/QUOTE] That's a valid criticism, and I'll do what I can to fix it. Thanks. [editline]10:59AM[/editline] [QUOTE=Heilos;22481201]Go find some pictures of swords online, or, better yet, go to a store that sells swords. I can tell you right there that that 'sword' would not cut a thing. It may pierce things, but it has absolutely no cutting edge. You would be better off calling it a mace. Simply, the 'ribs' are way too thick.[/QUOTE] Oh, I know full well that the sword would not be effective. I did my research. Between the weight, the lack of a continuous edge, and a rather dull edge, it wouldn't be a useful weapon. I don't care about that. The sword [i]looks[/i] like it can fuck you up, which is what I was going for. Besides, if you saw a guy running at you, swinging that hunk of metal around, you would probably piss yourself. I know I would. In fairness, though, the pictured sword is the most exaggerated and unrealistic. All of the others are at least somewhat realistic. In fact, I'd only consider three of the dozen-or-so to be unfit for actual combat. It's a criticism I expect to encounter often, though. Especially around here, some people demand realism. A similar number do not. Considering the plot of my little game involves magic, dragons, a floating city, and walking skeletons, I think I'm justified in having a few unrealistic swords.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;22486843]I don't care about that. The sword [i]looks[/i] like it can fuck you up, which is what I was going for. [/QUOTE] No it doesn't. Not saying you shouldn't use it for your game since it's your call but it sure as hell doesn't look threatening.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;22486843]That's a valid criticism, and I'll do what I can to fix it. Thanks. [editline]10:59AM[/editline] Oh, I know full well that the sword would not be effective. I did my research. Between the weight, the lack of a continuous edge, and a rather dull edge, it wouldn't be a useful weapon. I don't care about that. The sword [i]looks[/i] like it can fuck you up, which is what I was going for. Besides, if you saw a guy running at you, swinging that hunk of metal around, you would probably piss yourself. I know I would. In fairness, though, the pictured sword is the most exaggerated and unrealistic. All of the others are at least somewhat realistic. In fact, I'd only consider three of the dozen-or-so to be unfit for actual combat. It's a criticism I expect to encounter often, though. Especially around here, some people demand realism. A similar number do not. Considering the plot of my little game involves magic, dragons, a floating city, and walking skeletons, I think I'm justified in having a few unrealistic swords.[/QUOTE] what im saying is that it doesnt look too sharp, if some dude came at me screaming "BANZAI!!" with that sword i would be thinking that probably knock me out, not cut off my limbs or something

OK, I'll come up with another idea, see how that works out. I'm not giving up on it completely, but I'll accept that it might not be the best. Actually, part of the problem might be scale. There's nothing in the pics to show the size of it. I'll see if I can remedy that as well. PS: I know you guys can give me more criticism than this. You don't need to worry about offending me by saying it sucks as long as you tell me why it sucks so I can fix it.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;22490692]OK, I'll come up with another idea, see how that works out. I'm not giving up on it completely, but I'll accept that it might not be the best. Actually, part of the problem might be scale. There's nothing in the pics to show the size of it. I'll see if I can remedy that as well. PS: I know you guys can give me more criticism than this. You don't need to worry about offending me by saying it sucks as long as you tell me why it sucks so I can fix it.[/QUOTE] The sword looks nice, but the points at the top of the hilt need work. It might look better just by removing them.

OK, bunch of images coming up. First, a comparison of Deathedge with and without the hilt spikes: [URL=http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury4.jpg][IMG]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/518/swordfury4.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfury5.jpg][IMG]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7121/swordfury5.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Second, a rather unpolished draft of an alternate design for Deathedge. No textures, no subsurf, just an idea. Which shows more promise? [URL=http://img38.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfuryredraft.jpg][IMG]http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/3637/swordfuryredraft.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] Third and finally, another sword. This one's very similar to a wakizashi, although there's enough differences that a sword fanatic would classify it differently. I don't like how the texture looks from a distance, but I can't figure out what I should do to make it look better. FYI, the inscription on the habaki is ancient Greek, a quote from Alexander the Great. If it helps, the character owning it is what a certain site would call "a chessmaster, affably evil, a gentleman officer, overall a magnificent bastard." He's a villain and he knows it, but considers himself civilized, and rarely fights directly. [URL=http://img819.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulator3.jpg][IMG]http://img819.imageshack.us/img819/64/swordmanipulator3.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img12.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulator1.jpg][IMG]http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8053/swordmanipulator1.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img3.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulator2.jpg][IMG]http://img3.imageshack.us/img3/7039/swordmanipulator2.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL]

What do I have to do to get some criticism around here? Any opinions? Do I suck at this? Am I improbably awesome? TELL ME WHAT YOU THINK.

What's up with you guys, FP? Normally you can't shut up about your opinion; now that I want it, I can't get you guys to talk.

If that's supposed to be a traditional katana, the hilt is too short. Some of your swords are sized realistically (the last one) and some are just ridiculously oversized, anime-style. I don't see much consistency in the art design. [editline]12:29PM[/editline] Consider hiring a concept artist if you feel like your skills aren't enough to tie it all in designwise.

[QUOTE=PLing;22528624]If that's supposed to be a traditional katana, the hilt is too short. [/QUOTE] It was intended to be a wakizashi, a Japanese short sword. The hilt is sized properly to my reference photo, but, looking at others, I can see that most have longer hilts. Should be simple enough to fix. [QUOTE=PLing;22528624] Some of your swords are sized realistically (the last one) and some are just ridiculously oversized, anime-style. I don't see much consistency in the art design. [/QUOTE] That's a good point. I guess I'll need to do a round of redesigns to get things more consistent. [QUOTE=PLing;22528624]Consider hiring a concept artist if you feel like your skills aren't enough to tie it all in designwise.[/QUOTE] I don't yet feel that's necessary. Nevertheless, if I continue to have problems with the design, I may be forced to do so.

op stop feeding your ego making a thread of your lame swords om facepunch and demanding that you get attention and criticism [editline]08:47PM[/editline] [quote]. I don't like how the texture looks from a distance, but I can't figure out what I should do to make it look better. [/quote] have you tried , well i dont know ADDING detail to the texture? like a pattern for the handle and maybe , just maybe some scratches or something to the blade so it doesnt look as flat as my ex gf

[QUOTE=martin518441;22538096]op stop feeding your ego with uploading pics of your crappy swords to facepunch[/QUOTE] Not exactly the criticism I'm looking for. For one, I'm staying strictly within one thread. I'm not spamming this anywhere, so if you don't want to see my work, it's rather easy to avoid. I'm hardly "stroking my ego" by ASKING for criticism. I'm fully aware that I'm not yet skilled, and I'm attempting to improve. How is that narcissistic? Can you actually tell me what I'm doing wrong? What, exactly, makes these swords crappy? I would like to know, so I can improve. That's what I'm here for.

what you are doing wrong is the textures. dude they look extremly flat, you know those 3d renders from the 90's that all look like they are made out of 3 colors and a shiny shader . what it should not look like: [img]http://allmods.brinkster.net/th/1/8/8853.jpg[/img] what it should look like: [img]http://www.fallingpixel.com/products/14561/mains/Fantasy%20Sword%20Frostmourne%2001.jpg[/img] [img]http://images.elfwood.com/art/d/a/dannydespres/sword.jpg[/img] perfect example of low poly moddeling , but making up with great texture [img]http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_mprnb0C4Oi8/SVG9dgr16kI/AAAAAAAAAUA/fnJ40j9m6F0/s400/swords.jpg[/img] [img]http://img.qj.net/uploads/articles_module/67168/1hsword_qjpreviewth.jpg[/img] Try adding patterns (like something that looks like sandpaper) to the handles , make a normal map (you can get a plugin if you have photoshop) and swords dont stay "As good as new" all the time , scratch those mother's blades up

[QUOTE=martin518441;22538096]op stop feeding your ego making a thread of your lame swords om facepunch [editline]08:47PM[/editline] have you tried , well i dont know ADDING detail to the texture? like a pattern for the handle and maybe , just maybe some scratches or something to the blade so it doesnt look as flat as my ex gf[/QUOTE] OK, I assume you're referring to the one in the OP. Apparently, I need better names for the swords, since they aren't catching on. My bad. I have since tried to add detail to the texture. In fact, when zoomed in, it looks... acceptable, to me at least. But, when viewed at a distance, it does not, and I can't seem to make it look detailed from a distance without making it look like absolute crap. I've tried a couple things, and now I will try a couple more. If anyone knows of something that would work, please let me know. [editline]04:03PM[/editline] [QUOTE=martin518441;22538374]Try adding patterns (like something that looks like sandpaper) to the handles , make a normal map (you can get a plugin if you have photoshop) and swords dont stay "As good as new" all the time , scratch those mother's blades up[/QUOTE] Will do. Thanks for the advice. [editline]4:05PM[/editline] Also, due to PLing's advice, I'm currently doing an overhaul of all my designs, to try to figure out an aesthetic style. I'll probably end up doing two sets, one realistic and subtle, the other exaggerated and "animesque". I can see advantages and disadvantages to both. A realistic style would be somewhat easier to animate, and wouldn't stretch suspension-of-disbelief, but it might clash with the story. A more implausible style would let me differentiate the different swords better, as well as let it reflect the personality of the bearer to a greater extent, but it might drive off some players, and I'm having difficulty coming up with exaggerated designs for the non-sword weapons, like the crossbow. I should have some draft models in a day or so to show you, so I can see which works better with my skillset. I've already sketched both a realistic Deathedge, and an exaggerated wakizashi (I don't think I posted the name yet). PS: I'm beginning to think my sword names suck. Am I just being too self-critical, or do I need new names?

You might want to name a game with weapons at the level of quality that you are aiming for, or maybe another model made by someone else that we should compare your work to . It it much easier to criticize your work when we know what exactly you are aiming for.

OK, finished a quick redesign of the two main swords I've shown. No textures, no details besides what's needed to get the idea across. I'll be improving the mesh and texturing them this weekend, but for now, I'd like to hear opinions on which style works better. Here's the big red sword, redone in a more realistic style. Basically, a Scottish claymore mixed with a sword-breaker. It isn't historically accurate, but it's physically plausible. [URL=http://img18.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordfuryrealisticdraft.jpg][IMG]http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/1566/swordfuryrealisticdraft.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] And the wakizashi, redone in an exaggerated style. Since it's used as a costume element as much as it is a weapon, I had to keep it somewhat smaller in size, but I made up for that by making it mobile. The side-swords will be able to separate in some way, either forward-back or to the sides, I haven't decided yet. [URL=http://img20.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulatorredraft.jpg][IMG]http://img20.imageshack.us/img20/9199/swordmanipulatorredraft.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img13.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulatorredraft.jpg][IMG]http://img13.imageshack.us/img13/9199/swordmanipulatorredraft.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [URL=http://img10.imageshack.us/my.php?image=swordmanipulatorredraft.jpg][IMG]http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/9199/swordmanipulatorredraft.th.jpg[/IMG][/URL] At the moment, I'm leaning towards the exaggerated style, but I'm not committed enough to it to do a full redesign of all the other weapons I've designed. How do you go "beyond the impossible" when making a crossbow for the sniper boss? And to answer bluedyeno's question, I'm not going for Crysis-level detail for the final results. I suppose I'm going for about the graphics quality of a well-made Wii game, although if I happen to make something better than that I won't throw it out. Twilight Princess, perhaps, although I'm going for less brown. The renders just posted, of course, are just sketches in 3d, so I can figure out what style works. Please don't criticize the implementation, just the idea it's showing.

Did you UV unwrap the models you made before or did you just use materials applied to separate parts? And you wouldn't be able to pierce anything with that three bladed thing with all the blades near eachother. You'd need three times the force. If you want three blades, try a concept that breaks a normal blade into 3 thinner slices and fans them out like in your last render. For whatever reason. Oh and just adding stuff onto the blade like in your claymore doesn't really work. It doesn't look very good and you could more easily achieve that effect if you just made the blade have that kind of pattern on the edge. Like so: [img]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v362/Karisama/shakuganftw.jpg[/img] That's a horrible reference but it's the only one I found after quick googling. Just make the blade thinner than that...

[QUOTE=martin518441;22538374]*post*[/QUOTE] Contrary to what you apparently believe, simple yet well-made textures are usually better than "how many horribly gaudy and oddly colourful patterns can I squeeze onto this one sword oh also let's scratch the hell out of it" Material definition and some LIGHT signs of wear are all that's needed, as well as decent shaderwork (for current-gen) or decent diffuse-lit textures (previous-gen).

[QUOTE=PLing;22550116]Did you UV unwrap the models you made before or did you just use materials applied to separate parts? And you wouldn't be able to pierce anything with that three bladed thing with all the blades near eachother. You'd need three times the force. If you want three blades, try a concept that breaks a normal blade into 3 thinner slices and fans them out like in your last render. For whatever reason. Oh and just adding stuff onto the blade like in your claymore doesn't really work. It doesn't look very good and you could more easily achieve that effect if you just made the blade have that kind of pattern on the edge. Like so: [url]http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v362/Karisama/shakuganftw.jpg[/url] That's a horrible reference but it's the only one I found after quick googling. Just make the blade thinner than that...[/QUOTE] They were UV wrapped. The 3-bladed one was not meant to be realistic. Yes, it is incredibly impractical and ineffective. It's also pretty cool, which is what I was going for. Surprisingly, the extra bits on the claymore are from an actual weapon, usually referred to as a "sword-breaker" or "comb sword". It's rather obscure nowadays, but it was a very effective against armored knights, able to disarm them and penetrate the armor. I just scaled it up from shortsword-sized to claymore-sized. Historically inaccurate, but physically realistic. Nevertheless, I'll keep the idea you pictured in mind, in case I ever want to use it.

As a side note, in reference to your earlier wakizashi, your reference must be for an odd angle, as the hilts for those swords are not that short. One could barely fit their hand on that hilt. Hilts for short swords are -at least- a hand and a half. I've seen tantos with hilts longer than that. Here are a few examples(wakizashi): [img]http://www.freewebs.com/toufuushogunate/Wakizashi.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.oriental-weaponry.co.uk/acatalog/HW2061Close-Practical-Wakizashi.jpg[/img] Tanto: [img]http://www.arscives.com/bladesign/images/2-tanto-%20n-saya%20-web.jpg[/img] ..etc.

Yes, I realized that the grip was rather short. If I do go back to a more realistic model, I'll be removing the extra parts from the new exaggerated model instead of reverting to the old one. I did significantly more research. I've been improving the two comparison models, to the point that I'm beginning to texture. I can put up renders, if needed. I'm still on the fence with regards to which style to go with, and would appreciate some opinions on that.

[QUOTE=gman003-main;22569613]Yes, I realized that the grip was rather short. If I do go back to a more realistic model, I'll be removing the extra parts from the new exaggerated model instead of reverting to the old one. I did significantly more research. I've been improving the two comparison models, to the point that I'm beginning to texture. I can put up renders, if needed. I'm still on the fence with regards to which style to go with, and would appreciate some opinions on that.[/QUOTE] I somehow missed the rest of your post. My bad.